The Running Thread Vol 2
Discussion
Challo said:
No idea on the forefront running, but I would just do what you feel is comfortable at the start.
I'd go further - keep running how feels comfortable. Indefinitely Studies have shown that the you are most efficient (talking running economy here) when you're running how you feel comfortable. I don't see it as a technique to be trained, and even if you were to take that view you'd be sacrificing running economy to get it.I'm all for technique and tinkering (particularly in the context of effective training) but for me footstrike is something that your body will sort out itself.
And there are 80kg plus people doing ultras; have a crack at whatever interests you. But either way I'd consider some running specific strength and conditioning work on the basis of injury prevention alone.
I'd also consider very slowly increasing mileage. High cardiovascular fitness with no regular running as a starting point to take up running feels like a recipe for a lot of overuse injuries. Maybe ramp up running as you ramp down cycling? I'm really surprised by the poster who said 1 month would be enough for muscles to adapt. Is it really that quick?!
I would stick to parkrun & that distance for a couple of months at least, until you see improvement in your times. When that happens, and it starts to become easier, then start thinking of upping the distance.
Having an event planned is a good motivator, but don't aim too high too soon. I woke up one morning and decided I wanted to be a marathon runner - but I didn't enter one for 2 years; took my time to build up to half distance etc until I was comfortable.
Oh, and I know 'big' people who do ultras, who aren't bothered about times; they just enjoy running
Having an event planned is a good motivator, but don't aim too high too soon. I woke up one morning and decided I wanted to be a marathon runner - but I didn't enter one for 2 years; took my time to build up to half distance etc until I was comfortable.
Oh, and I know 'big' people who do ultras, who aren't bothered about times; they just enjoy running
travel is dangerous said:
I'd also consider very slowly increasing mileage. High cardiovascular fitness with no regular running as a starting point to take up running feels like a recipe for a lot of overuse injuries. Maybe ramp up running as you ramp down cycling? I'm really surprised by the poster who said 1 month would be enough for muscles to adapt. Is it really that quick?!
Muscles are quick adapters, though tendons are not. Cycling may have helped there, but maybe not, definitely worth building it up and paying attention to any pain immediately (before it becomes a proper injury).Definitely possible to make the transition and whilst being lighter would help, I’ve seen 80kg+ people run 16:30 and even quicker for 5k. As already advised, I would do the following:
1) Get some good shoes through a shop and buy 2 pairs so that you can rotate them
2) Join a club so that you can run with people and they will push you. You don’t have to run often, but once you know people, you find yourself running other runs with people
3) Start slowly and follow a plan. I recall you have been a very good cyclist so have the fitness. Running is different, but you will adapt
4) Be careful how you bring speed sessions into your running. They are great for improvement but if not done correctly will impact your body a lot
5) Given the level you have cycled at, 20mins for 5k should be a starting point, but I would expect you to drive that down quickly (I speak as someone who came to running from football and within 3 months went from 21:30 to 19:50 and then took another 2 minutes off that in 2 years
6) Stretch, roller, and regularly…… Yes regularly when watching TV or at work if you sit at a desk
Enjoy!!
1) Get some good shoes through a shop and buy 2 pairs so that you can rotate them
2) Join a club so that you can run with people and they will push you. You don’t have to run often, but once you know people, you find yourself running other runs with people
3) Start slowly and follow a plan. I recall you have been a very good cyclist so have the fitness. Running is different, but you will adapt
4) Be careful how you bring speed sessions into your running. They are great for improvement but if not done correctly will impact your body a lot
5) Given the level you have cycled at, 20mins for 5k should be a starting point, but I would expect you to drive that down quickly (I speak as someone who came to running from football and within 3 months went from 21:30 to 19:50 and then took another 2 minutes off that in 2 years
6) Stretch, roller, and regularly…… Yes regularly when watching TV or at work if you sit at a desk
Enjoy!!
okgo said:
For those than run, I've a few questions.
I am going to do a bit more running for something different as bit bored of 10 hours a week of cycling training, and want to see if I can get OK at something else, that takes hopefully a little less time and doesn't require me to ride miles from my house to get good training in. But I have a few questions I suppose -
- I assume at 80kg I'll never be a good distance runner, but 5/10km (about the distances I did best at in cycling in terms of duration) doesn't worry TOO much about size?
- How long will it take my legs to get used to it - I ran today for first time properly I guess and feel like been shot even though I found it easy cardio wise...
- I assume fitness from cycling will help but despite being one of the better riders at time trial (similar to running in that regard) in the country it will only take me so far in running?
- I have some basic Asics shoes, will these be ok?
- I tried running forefoot first today and it felt easier until my calves didn't like it, is this something worth pursuing?
I am predominantly a cyclist & a larger one at 85kg, and so was in a similar position to you when I started running (properly) at the end of 2015. I am going to do a bit more running for something different as bit bored of 10 hours a week of cycling training, and want to see if I can get OK at something else, that takes hopefully a little less time and doesn't require me to ride miles from my house to get good training in. But I have a few questions I suppose -
- I assume at 80kg I'll never be a good distance runner, but 5/10km (about the distances I did best at in cycling in terms of duration) doesn't worry TOO much about size?
- How long will it take my legs to get used to it - I ran today for first time properly I guess and feel like been shot even though I found it easy cardio wise...
- I assume fitness from cycling will help but despite being one of the better riders at time trial (similar to running in that regard) in the country it will only take me so far in running?
- I have some basic Asics shoes, will these be ok?
- I tried running forefoot first today and it felt easier until my calves didn't like it, is this something worth pursuing?
I have found that I can perform well at anything up to 10 miles in spite of my size. However, I've found that the longer I go the worse my times are compared to others. E.g. I ran exactly the same half marathon time as my tiny mate who I am a good chunk faster than over a 5k. It's very much a case of the shorter the better, but ultimately even a 5k is almost entirely aerobic so you won't be able get close to the best 60kg guys even with a lot of training.
Endurance wise, I've found weight is more of a hindrance in running compared to cycling. In cycling bigger guys have go-to disciplines (classics and time trials) which they can dominate, but in running bigger guys are limited to the track if they want any chance of podiums at a decent level. It hasn't stopped me finishing 1st in a parkrun #notarace, but only when the fast ones don't turn up!
It only takes a few runs to get over the next day soreness, but it took me a good few months to start managing respectable 5k times, even with a good base from cycling. It definitely doesn't automatically make you a good runner, it just gives you a head start. Running uses your muscles differently to cycling and the body needs to adapt to shifting lactate in different proportions to what it's used to. The other issue is that, on flat ground, absolute power isn't as important in running as cycling. So those big legs that help you in a 10 mile TT will not have the same positive impact in a 5k, even though you're racing for a similar total time.
There are ways to naturally develop better form without having to think too hard about what your feet are doing. Increasing cadence to closer to 180 and training in minimalist shoes like Vibrams helped mine massively.
Have you thought about trying a Duathlon? If you're an okay runner but a very good cyclist it's great to hop on the bike and breeze past everyone that ran away from you in the first leg. Only problem is the final run leg where some of them come back past!!
Edited by NatAsp on Thursday 11th January 13:17
Thanks everyone. Useful, predictably I went from almost no running to running 5 miles yesterday, and my foot hurts a bit now! Idiot I know. But I will bear it all in mind, certainly I am carrying a fair amount of muscle mass in my legs, but I'm 6,1 so not too chunky but hardly runner material really, but I'm ok with that.
Duathlon, maybe, probably not though, Botrill was OK at it, and is a lot more runner build than I am, and a better (well, more aero mostly) time trialist than me.
Duathlon, maybe, probably not though, Botrill was OK at it, and is a lot more runner build than I am, and a better (well, more aero mostly) time trialist than me.
10% a week mileage increase is a good rule of thumb, and it's surprising how quickly that starts to add up to respectable distance. I certainly wouldn't stick to just doing 5km runs for 2 months. But nor would I be going out and doing 10 miles off the bat. I'd start with your weekly Parkrun, keep that going and work the other runs around that.
And don't overdo it on intensity. I cycle a bit (but not enough to be a fully paid up member of the Velominati) so apologies if this is standard practice, but the rough guide I aim for is 80/20 intensity at low and high intensity respectively. Long, slow runs (and, in fairness, an overall mileage increase) mixed with other speed and hill work runs were what got me sub-20. But I'm more geared to long distance and hills so YMMV.
On that note, any particularly decent marathons coming up in Feb? Thinking I might drop down to the marathon distance for my next race to see how well my ultra training translates, without doing any marathon specific training.
And don't overdo it on intensity. I cycle a bit (but not enough to be a fully paid up member of the Velominati) so apologies if this is standard practice, but the rough guide I aim for is 80/20 intensity at low and high intensity respectively. Long, slow runs (and, in fairness, an overall mileage increase) mixed with other speed and hill work runs were what got me sub-20. But I'm more geared to long distance and hills so YMMV.
On that note, any particularly decent marathons coming up in Feb? Thinking I might drop down to the marathon distance for my next race to see how well my ultra training translates, without doing any marathon specific training.
johnwilliams77 said:
Cheers, but that's just a listing. I'm after peoples experiences.tenohfive said:
10% a week mileage increase is a good rule of thumb, and it's surprising how quickly that starts to add up to respectable distance. I certainly wouldn't stick to just doing 5km runs for 2 months. But nor would I be going out and doing 10 miles off the bat. I'd start with your weekly Parkrun, keep that going and work the other runs around that.
And don't overdo it on intensity. I cycle a bit (but not enough to be a fully paid up member of the Velominati) so apologies if this is standard practice, but the rough guide I aim for is 80/20 intensity at low and high intensity respectively. Long, slow runs (and, in fairness, an overall mileage increase) mixed with other speed and hill work runs were what got me sub-20. But I'm more geared to long distance and hills so YMMV.
On that note, any particularly decent marathons coming up in Feb? Thinking I might drop down to the marathon distance for my next race to see how well my ultra training translates, without doing any marathon specific training.
Thanks.And don't overdo it on intensity. I cycle a bit (but not enough to be a fully paid up member of the Velominati) so apologies if this is standard practice, but the rough guide I aim for is 80/20 intensity at low and high intensity respectively. Long, slow runs (and, in fairness, an overall mileage increase) mixed with other speed and hill work runs were what got me sub-20. But I'm more geared to long distance and hills so YMMV.
On that note, any particularly decent marathons coming up in Feb? Thinking I might drop down to the marathon distance for my next race to see how well my ultra training translates, without doing any marathon specific training.
Yep, that sounds similar to cycling training, though it will be tough to get my head round the time needed as obviously riding at high level requires 10-12 hours a week minimum really, and I only know of one runner who does running volume which looks like cycling volume!
My local parkrun is probably Bushy, which I've done before, probably getting 1500 people a week currently!
Weight does make a huge difference.
I’m also 6’1 aged 56
3 years ago was 12st & hitting 19 mins regularly in local park fun, which is a ‘slow’ course
2 easy years & crept up to 13st of athletic muscle
21 mins
Now 12st6 & 20.15 today
This years target to get sub 20 regularly, a few more pounds will do it.
If you find shoes you like, stock up on a few pairs as most makers ‘upgrade’ them every year, which invariably ruins them. Saucony are great at that. My favourites from last year are horrible now, luckily another in their range suits me now so few pairs in the wardrobe..
I used to cycle a fair bit but didn’t really have the time, running is easy to fit in, do a few lunchtime runs a week from work as showers etc
Maybe join a local club if you’re keen? running with others certainly pushes you on. A few guys at my club are ex cyclists, one is the best runner in the club. Strangely his technique looks the same as cycling action!
I’m also 6’1 aged 56
3 years ago was 12st & hitting 19 mins regularly in local park fun, which is a ‘slow’ course
2 easy years & crept up to 13st of athletic muscle
21 minsNow 12st6 & 20.15 today
This years target to get sub 20 regularly, a few more pounds will do it.
If you find shoes you like, stock up on a few pairs as most makers ‘upgrade’ them every year, which invariably ruins them. Saucony are great at that. My favourites from last year are horrible now, luckily another in their range suits me now so few pairs in the wardrobe..
I used to cycle a fair bit but didn’t really have the time, running is easy to fit in, do a few lunchtime runs a week from work as showers etc
Maybe join a local club if you’re keen? running with others certainly pushes you on. A few guys at my club are ex cyclists, one is the best runner in the club. Strangely his technique looks the same as cycling action!
I'll see how I get on, I can run to Regents Park from my office and live near Richmond Park/Thames Path so I am pretty spoilt I guess (in London terms), there are plenty of people I know that run. So will see how I go, my calves still ache hugely from Wednesdays 4.5 miles! Not sure when they'll be ready for more..
Morning folks, just stumbled onto this thread whilst having my morning browse, not sure how I haven't found it before. I'm training for Brighton Marathon this year, this'll be my first full. I've done a few halfs before and said I'd never do a full but somehow got talked into it!
Got my weekly long run(12 miles) scheduled this morning, have a good day everyone.
Oh and I've joined the Strava club
Got my weekly long run(12 miles) scheduled this morning, have a good day everyone.
Oh and I've joined the Strava club
Morning all. I've just been convinced to do the Paddock Wood half in April so training has begun. I've only ever run 5k before at a not particularly fast pace as I am a bit on the tubby side at 15st and 6'2". I have set myself a pretty unrealistic target for the half at 1hr 45min but realistically, I'll be happy with a sub 2hr time for my first half.
I'm in the same boat as quite a few others in here. Pretty strong rider but poor runner. My bike cardio has definitely helped but not performed any running miracles but its a good head start.
I've just got myself a Garmin forerunner 30 for training and it got it's first outing today. For a no thrills running watch, it does everything I want from it. Pace, distance and HR are all that I look at to be honest and it does that so I am happy.
I just got back from a run with a few of the others that are doing the same half and the pace was slow to comfortable, I could still chat with ease but for the last 2k I pushed on a bit and still felt alright once i'd finished. plenty more to do but confident with the distance.
I'm in the same boat as quite a few others in here. Pretty strong rider but poor runner. My bike cardio has definitely helped but not performed any running miracles but its a good head start.
I've just got myself a Garmin forerunner 30 for training and it got it's first outing today. For a no thrills running watch, it does everything I want from it. Pace, distance and HR are all that I look at to be honest and it does that so I am happy.
I just got back from a run with a few of the others that are doing the same half and the pace was slow to comfortable, I could still chat with ease but for the last 2k I pushed on a bit and still felt alright once i'd finished. plenty more to do but confident with the distance.
Folks, bit of advice if you can please?
43, 6"1, 12st. Been running for a few years, noticed in the last few months my gluts & hamstrings have tightened up significantly. To the point where it's uncomfortable at the start of my run, then quite painful when I end with a few sprints, particularly when opening out my stride for some pace. It subsides the more I do it, but feels tight all the time. I've not really changed my regime (5-6km, then 10mins of sprints), and run on new, quality trainers. Do a few stretches post run but that's it.
Not sure what to do to alleviate it. Dietary changes? Warm up/down, stretch tactics? Change the running style? Any advice appreciated! Really enjoy the buzz and fresh feeling I get post run, but the pre run knowledge it's going to hurt is putting me off, I've dodged a few days recently.
43, 6"1, 12st. Been running for a few years, noticed in the last few months my gluts & hamstrings have tightened up significantly. To the point where it's uncomfortable at the start of my run, then quite painful when I end with a few sprints, particularly when opening out my stride for some pace. It subsides the more I do it, but feels tight all the time. I've not really changed my regime (5-6km, then 10mins of sprints), and run on new, quality trainers. Do a few stretches post run but that's it.
Not sure what to do to alleviate it. Dietary changes? Warm up/down, stretch tactics? Change the running style? Any advice appreciated! Really enjoy the buzz and fresh feeling I get post run, but the pre run knowledge it's going to hurt is putting me off, I've dodged a few days recently.
trackdemon said:
Folks, bit of advice if you can please?
43, 6"1, 12st. Been running for a few years, noticed in the last few months my gluts & hamstrings have tightened up significantly. To the point where it's uncomfortable at the start of my run, then quite painful when I end with a few sprints, particularly when opening out my stride for some pace. It subsides the more I do it, but feels tight all the time. I've not really changed my regime (5-6km, then 10mins of sprints), and run on new, quality trainers. Do a few stretches post run but that's it.
Not sure what to do to alleviate it. Dietary changes? Warm up/down, stretch tactics? Change the running style? Any advice appreciated! Really enjoy the buzz and fresh feeling I get post run, but the pre run knowledge it's going to hurt is putting me off, I've dodged a few days recently.
I can't address anything specific, but there's two things I do and either one, either, or the placebo effect have helped a lot with soreness and injury prevention. I've massively upped my mileage over the last year as a result.43, 6"1, 12st. Been running for a few years, noticed in the last few months my gluts & hamstrings have tightened up significantly. To the point where it's uncomfortable at the start of my run, then quite painful when I end with a few sprints, particularly when opening out my stride for some pace. It subsides the more I do it, but feels tight all the time. I've not really changed my regime (5-6km, then 10mins of sprints), and run on new, quality trainers. Do a few stretches post run but that's it.
Not sure what to do to alleviate it. Dietary changes? Warm up/down, stretch tactics? Change the running style? Any advice appreciated! Really enjoy the buzz and fresh feeling I get post run, but the pre run knowledge it's going to hurt is putting me off, I've dodged a few days recently.
1. Lunge matrix/leg swings to warm up. I swear by these now, I always do them. It doesn't take as long after awhile and you feel looser before you start - plus the HR is up a bit too.
2. Strength and conditioning work. Daily bodyweight (slow speed) squats, quad stretches, and intermittently I'll chuck in some hip stretches.
When I'm running somewhere near my peak I'll do a couple of weight sessions a week with weighted squats, deadlifts, calf raises and kettlebell swings. Doesn't take long - about 20 minutes a session, straight after a long or high intensity run to get the most benefit.
There's a growing body of evidence of the role strength work plays in injury prevention. Not that it's a new concept.
okgo said:
my calves still ache hugely from Wednesdays 4.5 miles! Not sure when they'll be ready for more..
Based on my experience a few years ago of moving from cycling to running you have to forget that you have great cardio fitness and run very steadily for a good while. I kept getting carried away with how easy it felt for the first part of each run and over cook my legs. Maybe try a slow jog to loosen them up, although I found that an easy ride would help especially with my calves.
tenohfive said:
trackdemon said:
Folks, bit of advice if you can please?
43, 6"1, 12st. Been running for a few years, noticed in the last few months my gluts & hamstrings have tightened up significantly. To the point where it's uncomfortable at the start of my run, then quite painful when I end with a few sprints, particularly when opening out my stride for some pace. It subsides the more I do it, but feels tight all the time. I've not really changed my regime (5-6km, then 10mins of sprints), and run on new, quality trainers. Do a few stretches post run but that's it.
Not sure what to do to alleviate it. Dietary changes? Warm up/down, stretch tactics? Change the running style? Any advice appreciated! Really enjoy the buzz and fresh feeling I get post run, but the pre run knowledge it's going to hurt is putting me off, I've dodged a few days recently.
I can't address anything specific, but there's two things I do and either one, either, or the placebo effect have helped a lot with soreness and injury prevention. I've massively upped my mileage over the last year as a result.43, 6"1, 12st. Been running for a few years, noticed in the last few months my gluts & hamstrings have tightened up significantly. To the point where it's uncomfortable at the start of my run, then quite painful when I end with a few sprints, particularly when opening out my stride for some pace. It subsides the more I do it, but feels tight all the time. I've not really changed my regime (5-6km, then 10mins of sprints), and run on new, quality trainers. Do a few stretches post run but that's it.
Not sure what to do to alleviate it. Dietary changes? Warm up/down, stretch tactics? Change the running style? Any advice appreciated! Really enjoy the buzz and fresh feeling I get post run, but the pre run knowledge it's going to hurt is putting me off, I've dodged a few days recently.
1. Lunge matrix/leg swings to warm up. I swear by these now, I always do them. It doesn't take as long after awhile and you feel looser before you start - plus the HR is up a bit too.
2. Strength and conditioning work. Daily bodyweight (slow speed) squats, quad stretches, and intermittently I'll chuck in some hip stretches.
When I'm running somewhere near my peak I'll do a couple of weight sessions a week with weighted squats, deadlifts, calf raises and kettlebell swings. Doesn't take long - about 20 minutes a session, straight after a long or high intensity run to get the most benefit.
There's a growing body of evidence of the role strength work plays in injury prevention. Not that it's a new concept.
but it just seems a bit sudden to me...Gassing Station | Sports | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff