BMW 523 E39 - the saga of the tired BMW
Discussion
ETA: Now reached 200k miles (not a lot these days I suppose!)
This is a long story, please bear with me.
TLDR; - Man buys shonky 523i and ends up spending a huge amount of money on it.
This car was never intended to be a lesson in 'bangernomics' but I guess it serves as a good lesson...
I had owned various BMWs on and off over the years, E34 520, 525, 530 and E39 523, 535 and also E46 323 & 330.
We spent so much money on those cars, the wife said "no more BMWs". Unusually for me, I agreed with her sentiment, but after about 5 years or so, we both finally relented and bought another.
The advert
"Too good to send to auction", "sold to enthusiasts by enthusiasts", "massive history folder", "190000 miles but drives nicely" read the advert - what could go wrong?
My son drove us from Leeds to the other side of Lancashire to fetch the car (160 mile round trip!).
Having looked at it, and a brief test drive, I concluded it was the car to have. It ticked a lot of boxes for me as it has the 'style 49' alloys and the shadowline (I think it's called) exterior trim.
I smell oil
So we set off home, and about 5 miles up the road a smell of hot oil made itself known. When I stopped for fuel, I had a look under the bonnet but couldn't see anything obvious so we headed home on the M62.
On the motorway, all was good when on a good surface, gear changes were smooth, kickdown worked fine and plenty of power (seemingly more than the previous 523 / 323 I had owned).
However when changing lanes, or driving over road markings of any kind, the rear end had a distinct 'twitchiness' and I found myself having to correct the steering a lot! (more on this later).
There was also quite a vibration from somewhere above 65 mph. Later on it was realised this was the propshaft.
After reading the "massive folder" of service history, it rapidly became evident that the car had been rather neglected during the last 2 years (how I missed this at the dealer I don't know...).
So my first task was to get a service and investigate the smell of hot oil. Amazingly, the first (very local to me) BMW specialist failed to spot the massive oil leak from the cam cover (yet they did find a dodgy coolant hose!) and oil was replaced along with filters etc.
More to come - here are a couple of pics I took today after a good wash and polish (first time in the nearly 2 years I've owned her /shame).
This is a long story, please bear with me.
TLDR; - Man buys shonky 523i and ends up spending a huge amount of money on it.
This car was never intended to be a lesson in 'bangernomics' but I guess it serves as a good lesson...
I had owned various BMWs on and off over the years, E34 520, 525, 530 and E39 523, 535 and also E46 323 & 330.
We spent so much money on those cars, the wife said "no more BMWs". Unusually for me, I agreed with her sentiment, but after about 5 years or so, we both finally relented and bought another.
The advert
"Too good to send to auction", "sold to enthusiasts by enthusiasts", "massive history folder", "190000 miles but drives nicely" read the advert - what could go wrong?
My son drove us from Leeds to the other side of Lancashire to fetch the car (160 mile round trip!).
Having looked at it, and a brief test drive, I concluded it was the car to have. It ticked a lot of boxes for me as it has the 'style 49' alloys and the shadowline (I think it's called) exterior trim.
I smell oil
So we set off home, and about 5 miles up the road a smell of hot oil made itself known. When I stopped for fuel, I had a look under the bonnet but couldn't see anything obvious so we headed home on the M62.
On the motorway, all was good when on a good surface, gear changes were smooth, kickdown worked fine and plenty of power (seemingly more than the previous 523 / 323 I had owned).
However when changing lanes, or driving over road markings of any kind, the rear end had a distinct 'twitchiness' and I found myself having to correct the steering a lot! (more on this later).
There was also quite a vibration from somewhere above 65 mph. Later on it was realised this was the propshaft.
After reading the "massive folder" of service history, it rapidly became evident that the car had been rather neglected during the last 2 years (how I missed this at the dealer I don't know...).
So my first task was to get a service and investigate the smell of hot oil. Amazingly, the first (very local to me) BMW specialist failed to spot the massive oil leak from the cam cover (yet they did find a dodgy coolant hose!) and oil was replaced along with filters etc.
More to come - here are a couple of pics I took today after a good wash and polish (first time in the nearly 2 years I've owned her /shame).
Edited by TonyRPH on Saturday 9th September 17:56
So to continue the saga....
Click, click, click
One evening upon leaving work, I noticed a "click, click, click" from somewhere...
This clicking varied with road speed.
The clicking persevered all the way home although I did notice it eased up when I backed of the accelerator, so right away I knew it had to be drive train related.
After a few days of not using the car (apart from short local journeys) - I took the car to my local mechanic and asked him to have a look. His initial diagnosis was rear brakes, however that didn't solve the problem.
It did however ensure that the correct discs were fitted, as previously they had been replaced with incorrect disks.
At the same time, the wandering was resolved (well, improved massively!), by replacing a rose joint at the rear.
After some research on the internet, I discovered a Youtube video where the owner had the exact same fault.
It turned out to be the CV joint on the end of the propshaft. I bought a used propshaft off Ebay (£120 IIRC) and got that replaced for £75 - clicking noise gone.
MOT time
Somewhere along this time, the MOT became due, and it failed on several items.
Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Front Shock absorber has a serious fluid leak (2.7.3)
Offside Rear Shock absorber has a serious fluid leak (2.7.3)
Nearside Front Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Offside Front Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Nearside Rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Offside Rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Nearside Rear Brake hose excessively deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Rear Brake hose excessively deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Yep, not good.
So 4x new shocks, 2x rear springs (it was found that one of the rear springs was broken when the shock was changed) and new brake pipes.
MOT passed, woot.
I can still smell hot oil
At this stage, the smell of oil was still there, despite having the cam cover gasket replaced. This came to a head (no pun intended) one evening on the way home from work when I pulled up at a junction on a slight incline, and the cabin filled with smoke coming through the air vents. Fortunately, I was able to clear it pretty quickly by putting all the windows down, but it did give me a bit of a moment.
At this stage, I took the car to another specialist in Leeds (hi Anthony - if you read this!), and he diagnosed a cracked cam cover (plastic) and a replacement was the only solution. Having failed to locate a good used one, I had to fit an original part from BMW - cost? £270!!
During this visit, an oil leak from the oil filter housing to block joint was also discovered and rectified.
No more oil smell.
To be continued....
Click, click, click
One evening upon leaving work, I noticed a "click, click, click" from somewhere...
This clicking varied with road speed.
The clicking persevered all the way home although I did notice it eased up when I backed of the accelerator, so right away I knew it had to be drive train related.
After a few days of not using the car (apart from short local journeys) - I took the car to my local mechanic and asked him to have a look. His initial diagnosis was rear brakes, however that didn't solve the problem.
It did however ensure that the correct discs were fitted, as previously they had been replaced with incorrect disks.
At the same time, the wandering was resolved (well, improved massively!), by replacing a rose joint at the rear.
After some research on the internet, I discovered a Youtube video where the owner had the exact same fault.
It turned out to be the CV joint on the end of the propshaft. I bought a used propshaft off Ebay (£120 IIRC) and got that replaced for £75 - clicking noise gone.
MOT time
Somewhere along this time, the MOT became due, and it failed on several items.
Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Front Shock absorber has a serious fluid leak (2.7.3)
Offside Rear Shock absorber has a serious fluid leak (2.7.3)
Nearside Front Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Offside Front Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Nearside Rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Offside Rear Brake pipe excessively corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Nearside Rear Brake hose excessively deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Offside Rear Brake hose excessively deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Yep, not good.
So 4x new shocks, 2x rear springs (it was found that one of the rear springs was broken when the shock was changed) and new brake pipes.
MOT passed, woot.
I can still smell hot oil
At this stage, the smell of oil was still there, despite having the cam cover gasket replaced. This came to a head (no pun intended) one evening on the way home from work when I pulled up at a junction on a slight incline, and the cabin filled with smoke coming through the air vents. Fortunately, I was able to clear it pretty quickly by putting all the windows down, but it did give me a bit of a moment.
At this stage, I took the car to another specialist in Leeds (hi Anthony - if you read this!), and he diagnosed a cracked cam cover (plastic) and a replacement was the only solution. Having failed to locate a good used one, I had to fit an original part from BMW - cost? £270!!
During this visit, an oil leak from the oil filter housing to block joint was also discovered and rectified.
No more oil smell.
To be continued....
Edited by TonyRPH on Monday 24th October 17:36
Back in the day, when my dad had a 330i it also did the smoke through the vents thing when sitting on an incline. BMW main dealers never could identify it...
The E39 is a glorious old thing, and I wish you best of luck! I've just bought a ratty E36 compact... I am sure it will also throw up many surprises.
The E39 is a glorious old thing, and I wish you best of luck! I've just bought a ratty E36 compact... I am sure it will also throw up many surprises.
@sgtbash - I am the 3rd keeper. Do you by any chance know this particular car? (You say you owned in the past tense...)
@JakeT - thanks - a former colleague ran an E36 328 for a while. That developed a ticking noise which was never identified. It was eventually written off as the head gasket blew and he scrapped it.
To continue my saga...
Boot wiring
I noticed that the internal boot release wasn't working (neither was the remote) and when opening and closing the boot, the number plate lights would flash. Further research revealed this to be the harness that runs between the boot and body which had been severed in places and was now shorting out. This one I managed to repair myself, although it was a bit fiddly, and I had to guess some of the connections as the colours were vague.
Windscreen wipers
I forgot to mention that the night the clicking noise developed, it was raining. Having pulled over to check around the car for the noise, the windscreen wipers switched to intermittent.
Well, they should have been on intermittent however I now had no wipers and was facing very heavy rain. I managed to cover about 3 miles at which point I pulled into a pub car park and began looking for the fuse which I just couldn't find. After sitting in the car park for about 20 minutes or so with everything off, I tried again and the wipers began working. So now I was fine so long as I didn't stop and they switched back to intermittent mode!
One £10 relay later and that solved the wiper problem.
Roll on a few months (only doing about 200 miles a month at this point) and one day the speedometer suddenly decides to become intermittent - but would work again the following day. This got progressively worse and the specialist recommended replacing the left rear ABS sensor. Following the sensor replacement (which had to be drilled out at ££££ labour) the problem briefly went away (no - it just hid away lol) and within a week or so it was back, this time with the infamous "trifecta" issue with lights on the dashboard and no speedometer too.
The ABS module was failing intermittently. I removed this and sent it away to be refurbished, at which point it was returned with a note "unable to repair" - but somehow whilst trying to test / repair it, they managed to completely destroy it, and connecting it back to the car resulting in a new look Christmas tree dashboard, and an engine that would barely run, due to the module pulling down the CAN bus.
I bought a new ABS module off Ebay for £350 - it fitted right in and everything was working again - that was a relief.
Headlamps
The drivers side headlamp adjusters were broken when I bought the car (although I was unaware of this at the time) but I later discovered someone had wedged what looks like a piece of exhaust hanger rubber to keep the reflector in place.
The main problem with this is that they had removed the cover (to switch l/h r/h drive) to wedge this rubber into.
Hence when it rained, copious amounts of water found it's way into the headlamp housing... Genius.
I purchased a pair of spares / repair headlamps off Ebay along with some upgraded adjuster pins, and rebuilt the headlamp myself.
Tyres
Amazingly, the car had fairly decent tyres all round - Contis at the rear, Dunlops at the front - however due to the worn shock absorber mentioned previously, one of the Dunlops had developed a nasty flat spot and would vibrate / patter at speed, so these were replaced.
I was fortunate to get two extra style 49 alloys with the car, however I later found that one was buckled, and one day I'll get it refurbished. Maybe.
With all the above problems dealt with, we have actually been able to enjoy the car a little more now, but it has developed a shudder at the front when braking - I understand this is some joints in the front suspension that need replacement. So that's something for the future.
The other issue I have is some rust, which although not terminal, will require seeing to in the next year or so.
The front end was refurbished about 8 years ago, and the wings are good, but the bonnet has a few nasty stone chips.
I also have a weird vibration from the left rear sometimes when pulling away sharply and under heavy acceleration - I'm fairly certain this is a CV joint on the drive shaft (at least I hope it is!).
I suppose these are normal maintenance things to expect on a 16 year old car with 192000 miles...
I just had to fix the things that the previous owner sadly ignored for so long.
@JakeT - thanks - a former colleague ran an E36 328 for a while. That developed a ticking noise which was never identified. It was eventually written off as the head gasket blew and he scrapped it.
To continue my saga...
Boot wiring
I noticed that the internal boot release wasn't working (neither was the remote) and when opening and closing the boot, the number plate lights would flash. Further research revealed this to be the harness that runs between the boot and body which had been severed in places and was now shorting out. This one I managed to repair myself, although it was a bit fiddly, and I had to guess some of the connections as the colours were vague.
Windscreen wipers
I forgot to mention that the night the clicking noise developed, it was raining. Having pulled over to check around the car for the noise, the windscreen wipers switched to intermittent.
Well, they should have been on intermittent however I now had no wipers and was facing very heavy rain. I managed to cover about 3 miles at which point I pulled into a pub car park and began looking for the fuse which I just couldn't find. After sitting in the car park for about 20 minutes or so with everything off, I tried again and the wipers began working. So now I was fine so long as I didn't stop and they switched back to intermittent mode!
One £10 relay later and that solved the wiper problem.
Roll on a few months (only doing about 200 miles a month at this point) and one day the speedometer suddenly decides to become intermittent - but would work again the following day. This got progressively worse and the specialist recommended replacing the left rear ABS sensor. Following the sensor replacement (which had to be drilled out at ££££ labour) the problem briefly went away (no - it just hid away lol) and within a week or so it was back, this time with the infamous "trifecta" issue with lights on the dashboard and no speedometer too.
The ABS module was failing intermittently. I removed this and sent it away to be refurbished, at which point it was returned with a note "unable to repair" - but somehow whilst trying to test / repair it, they managed to completely destroy it, and connecting it back to the car resulting in a new look Christmas tree dashboard, and an engine that would barely run, due to the module pulling down the CAN bus.
I bought a new ABS module off Ebay for £350 - it fitted right in and everything was working again - that was a relief.
Headlamps
The drivers side headlamp adjusters were broken when I bought the car (although I was unaware of this at the time) but I later discovered someone had wedged what looks like a piece of exhaust hanger rubber to keep the reflector in place.
The main problem with this is that they had removed the cover (to switch l/h r/h drive) to wedge this rubber into.
Hence when it rained, copious amounts of water found it's way into the headlamp housing... Genius.
I purchased a pair of spares / repair headlamps off Ebay along with some upgraded adjuster pins, and rebuilt the headlamp myself.
Tyres
Amazingly, the car had fairly decent tyres all round - Contis at the rear, Dunlops at the front - however due to the worn shock absorber mentioned previously, one of the Dunlops had developed a nasty flat spot and would vibrate / patter at speed, so these were replaced.
I was fortunate to get two extra style 49 alloys with the car, however I later found that one was buckled, and one day I'll get it refurbished. Maybe.
With all the above problems dealt with, we have actually been able to enjoy the car a little more now, but it has developed a shudder at the front when braking - I understand this is some joints in the front suspension that need replacement. So that's something for the future.
The other issue I have is some rust, which although not terminal, will require seeing to in the next year or so.
The front end was refurbished about 8 years ago, and the wings are good, but the bonnet has a few nasty stone chips.
I also have a weird vibration from the left rear sometimes when pulling away sharply and under heavy acceleration - I'm fairly certain this is a CV joint on the drive shaft (at least I hope it is!).
I suppose these are normal maintenance things to expect on a 16 year old car with 192000 miles...
I just had to fix the things that the previous owner sadly ignored for so long.
Edited by TonyRPH on Monday 24th October 17:37
I'm currently trying to diagnose a weird vibration from the rear under heavy acceleration.
It's almost as if something is winding up like a spring and then resonating - kind of like when the exhaust touches something - but I'm sure it's not that as the exhaust seems secure enough.
Anyway - obligatory pic - now at 195k miles.
Of all the cars I've owned (and that's a few!) I still think this style of BMW dashboard is the best.
It's almost as if something is winding up like a spring and then resonating - kind of like when the exhaust touches something - but I'm sure it's not that as the exhaust seems secure enough.
Anyway - obligatory pic - now at 195k miles.
Of all the cars I've owned (and that's a few!) I still think this style of BMW dashboard is the best.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
Yes, maintenance can be a killer, especially when you can't DIY (which I can't anymore).
I think I have traced the vibration to a failing flex disk as I grovelled under the car this morning and took a couple of pics.
A close up shows some cracking and a potential tear (just near the bolt) I think.
I seem to recall the entire exhaust system has to be dropped to change this.
Full image.
Yes, maintenance can be a killer, especially when you can't DIY (which I can't anymore).
I think I have traced the vibration to a failing flex disk as I grovelled under the car this morning and took a couple of pics.
A close up shows some cracking and a potential tear (just near the bolt) I think.
I seem to recall the entire exhaust system has to be dropped to change this.
Full image.
olly22n said:
re: wipers. You know they switch to intermittent when you come to a stop?
And whilst I admire your perseverance, would you have been better off starting with a car that wasn't, well, as f
ked as this one?
Yes I know they go to intermittent when stopped* but because the relay was knackered, when they did switch to intermittent (after I had stopped at the side of the road) they actually went off completely, because the relay was failing to provide power, whether in full or intermittent mode.And whilst I admire your perseverance, would you have been better off starting with a car that wasn't, well, as f
ked as this one?I pulled the old relay apart and the contacts were badly burnt (as expected).
And yes indeed - a better car would have been the err.. better option. However, by the time I realise just how borked this one was, I had already put far too much money into it. We live and learn, although I should know better at my age haha.
- I've had several BMWs before this so I was familiar with the intermittent at stop option.
Vibration more than likely the prop bearing or the mounting, mine is doing it and getting worse, just waiting to get my ramps back up so I can start doing it.
Also believe my rocker cover to be cracked, cured most of the burning oil smell for the moment.
If you need any bits the E39 club on facebook is pretty good, I do have a couple in as well at the moment breaking
Also believe my rocker cover to be cracked, cured most of the burning oil smell for the moment.
If you need any bits the E39 club on facebook is pretty good, I do have a couple in as well at the moment breaking
Is the oil smell fixed?
I'm in a similar position to you, albeit with a slightly better starting point and doing most of the work myself.
Oil smell and smoke through the vents is usually due to oil dripping on the exhaust manifold. This can be due to use of a Victor Reinz cam cover gasket, poor use of sealant/no sealant/wrong sealant when fitting gasket, incorrect torque to cam cover bolts, cracked cam cover or broken CCV system (increased pressure, forcing oil out of anywhere it can get out). As you've experienced, smoke in the cabin isn't a nice time!
Good luck with the car; again, as you know, when the E39 is working well, it is hard to beat. :-).
I'm in a similar position to you, albeit with a slightly better starting point and doing most of the work myself.
Oil smell and smoke through the vents is usually due to oil dripping on the exhaust manifold. This can be due to use of a Victor Reinz cam cover gasket, poor use of sealant/no sealant/wrong sealant when fitting gasket, incorrect torque to cam cover bolts, cracked cam cover or broken CCV system (increased pressure, forcing oil out of anywhere it can get out). As you've experienced, smoke in the cabin isn't a nice time!
Good luck with the car; again, as you know, when the E39 is working well, it is hard to beat. :-).
@pits - I'm fairly certain it's the rubber flex disk coupling (or giubo as it's also known) - recommendations are to change that and the centre bearing at the same time. Thanks for the Facebook tip, I'll ask the O/H to sign up to the group.
@MJ85 - yes the oil smell is long since fixed now, but as I said above, I had to buy a new cam cover from BMW @ £285 ! And yes, when they are in fine fettle they are really comfortable, quiet cars. Mine rides really nicely, even with the 17" wheels and 45 profile tyres (not that extreme these days I know).
@stevieeg - Well I'm hoping that mine runs well beyond 200k - a place I worked at a few years ago had a 523 as a pool car, and when I left it was up to around 276k and still doing ok apart from rust.
On the plus side, my air con works, no missing pixels anywhere on the dash or radio, and the CD player / radio works fine too. Amazingly, even the cruise control works fine too!
Obviously, with hindsight I should have just bought a much better car, but I didn't have the money to spend in one go in the first place anyway.
The car was obviously loved by the first owner, just slightly less by the second in the later years of ownership, which is a shame.
@MJ85 - yes the oil smell is long since fixed now, but as I said above, I had to buy a new cam cover from BMW @ £285 ! And yes, when they are in fine fettle they are really comfortable, quiet cars. Mine rides really nicely, even with the 17" wheels and 45 profile tyres (not that extreme these days I know).
@stevieeg - Well I'm hoping that mine runs well beyond 200k - a place I worked at a few years ago had a 523 as a pool car, and when I left it was up to around 276k and still doing ok apart from rust.
On the plus side, my air con works, no missing pixels anywhere on the dash or radio, and the CD player / radio works fine too. Amazingly, even the cruise control works fine too!
Obviously, with hindsight I should have just bought a much better car, but I didn't have the money to spend in one go in the first place anyway.
The car was obviously loved by the first owner, just slightly less by the second in the later years of ownership, which is a shame.
You have lots of patience!
My 528 had the wiper problem. On the motorway. In the dark. Fun times. They also just started working after 10 mins.
I sold mine because of the 14mpg/0-60 in about 9 seconds and it always used to seem like it was sitting lower on one side which eventually drove me nuts.
I'd still probably take a 540i/530d as a cheap smoker though!
My 528 had the wiper problem. On the motorway. In the dark. Fun times. They also just started working after 10 mins.
I sold mine because of the 14mpg/0-60 in about 9 seconds and it always used to seem like it was sitting lower on one side which eventually drove me nuts.
I'd still probably take a 540i/530d as a cheap smoker though!
Patience...? Hmmm.. there have been times when I've been ready to throw in the towel.
I probably would have done, but quite early on I put money into fixing it and I reached the point of no return quite rapidly.
They are great cars when they're working properly, and with all the work that's been done on mine, I'm hoping it should be good for another 200k without spending too much more... (famous last words)
I suspect a gearbox issue may put a stop to things, but there seems to be plenty of lower mileage scrappers out there to get spares from.
Fuel consumption is consistently around 26.9mpg according to the OBC which isn't too bad I thought.
It doesn't seem to change much even on a 100 mile run which is odd, but something I have seen before with my other BMWs.
ETA: I also have past form for buying cars, spending money fixing things, new tyres etc. and then running them for around 6 months or so and then selling at a huge loss.
Over the past 16 years or so, I think I've only bought maybe 2 or 3 cars (out of 30 odd) that haven't needed tyres and wiper blades.
I probably would have done, but quite early on I put money into fixing it and I reached the point of no return quite rapidly.
They are great cars when they're working properly, and with all the work that's been done on mine, I'm hoping it should be good for another 200k without spending too much more... (famous last words)
I suspect a gearbox issue may put a stop to things, but there seems to be plenty of lower mileage scrappers out there to get spares from.
Fuel consumption is consistently around 26.9mpg according to the OBC which isn't too bad I thought.
It doesn't seem to change much even on a 100 mile run which is odd, but something I have seen before with my other BMWs.
ETA: I also have past form for buying cars, spending money fixing things, new tyres etc. and then running them for around 6 months or so and then selling at a huge loss.
Over the past 16 years or so, I think I've only bought maybe 2 or 3 cars (out of 30 odd) that haven't needed tyres and wiper blades.
Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 18th November 09:46
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