Thinking of buying a 993 C4
Discussion
Hello all
Here I am in the dark side...
I was saving my hard earned pennies for a Cerb or a Tuscan but something has caught my eye. I am going to view a 993 C4 tomorrow, quite a leggy one, 124K miles but with a recently rebuilt engine which was done in Belgium (15K miles ago). The car is in a strong colour, silver with black leather. It is LHD and is a private sale - £20,995.
I have searched the forum and think I have read up on most of the things to look out for (clutch, RMS leaks, aircon unit) etc. To be honest, the miles do not put me off, as I have had many cars doing that mileage (not my TVR though!) and if all goes well and I buy it, I would put it through a decent independent for a 24K service.
My question is whether there is any premium on the C4 over a C2. I am under the impression that the engines are very strong compared to the 964 and should be capable of very high miles without too much problem. Are there any other obvious things I should look out for ?
Many thanks in advance!
Here I am in the dark side...
I was saving my hard earned pennies for a Cerb or a Tuscan but something has caught my eye. I am going to view a 993 C4 tomorrow, quite a leggy one, 124K miles but with a recently rebuilt engine which was done in Belgium (15K miles ago). The car is in a strong colour, silver with black leather. It is LHD and is a private sale - £20,995.
I have searched the forum and think I have read up on most of the things to look out for (clutch, RMS leaks, aircon unit) etc. To be honest, the miles do not put me off, as I have had many cars doing that mileage (not my TVR though!) and if all goes well and I buy it, I would put it through a decent independent for a 24K service.
My question is whether there is any premium on the C4 over a C2. I am under the impression that the engines are very strong compared to the 964 and should be capable of very high miles without too much problem. Are there any other obvious things I should look out for ?
Many thanks in advance!
21k for a high mile LHD C4 seems expensive to me... with or without engine rebuild.
VS
Nick the Greek: Dunno. Seems expensive.
Tom: Seems? Well, this seems to be a complete waste of my time. That, my friend, is 900 nicker in any store you're lucky enough to find one in. And you're haggling over 200 pound? What school of finance did you come from Nick? "It's a deal, it's a steal, it's the Sale of the f**king Century!" In fact, f**k it Nick, I think I'll keep it!
VS
Nick the Greek: Dunno. Seems expensive.
Tom: Seems? Well, this seems to be a complete waste of my time. That, my friend, is 900 nicker in any store you're lucky enough to find one in. And you're haggling over 200 pound? What school of finance did you come from Nick? "It's a deal, it's a steal, it's the Sale of the f**king Century!" In fact, f**k it Nick, I think I'll keep it!
This is what you can get for 21k:
www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/vehicles/porsche_911_993_c2_18.htm
C4 no huge advantage over C2 unless you drive like a lunatic in the wet, or live in the outer hebrides and use this everyday (through winter).
Oh, and i have had 993 C4(S actually) and drive a 993 C2 now.
VS
www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/vehicles/porsche_911_993_c2_18.htm
C4 no huge advantage over C2 unless you drive like a lunatic in the wet, or live in the outer hebrides and use this everyday (through winter).
Oh, and i have had 993 C4(S actually) and drive a 993 C2 now.
VS
I haven't trawled the classifieds, but I think that the price is probably on a par with what an lhd car would go for in the UK. There was one advertised on PH some weeks ago at £18,995 in the UK.
It's a hell of a risk to fly to somewhere and buy a car sight unseen from a private seller. Are you having it inspected first? How do you know that the car is what it purports to be? How do you know that the car belongs to the seller? How do you know whether he has finance outstanding on it or not?...don't forget that in the UK if you buy a car with finance outstanding it's you that assumes the debt (and you don't tehcnically own the car - the finance company does)...is this the same under Belgian law?
What I'm really saying is that to my mind, the car is just not that much of a bargain to take all of the risks stated above.
It's a hell of a risk to fly to somewhere and buy a car sight unseen from a private seller. Are you having it inspected first? How do you know that the car is what it purports to be? How do you know that the car belongs to the seller? How do you know whether he has finance outstanding on it or not?...don't forget that in the UK if you buy a car with finance outstanding it's you that assumes the debt (and you don't tehcnically own the car - the finance company does)...is this the same under Belgian law?
What I'm really saying is that to my mind, the car is just not that much of a bargain to take all of the risks stated above.
rubystone said:
It's a hell of a risk to fly to somewhere and buy a car sight unseen from a private seller.
Sorry if I wasn't clear in my original post. The car is now in Kent and was brought over here last year privately.
I agree the cardinal rule is to buy on condition, it is the same with TVRs. As I said, not too worried about the miles as long as everything else adds up and the price is right (will try and get it down £1.5K).
Chicklets,
I understood what you meant, engine rebuild was done in Belgium but car is here now.
94/95 993 LHD with 100k miles on the clock and in excellent condition (original with stone chips, not resprayed) should command 20k IMHO.
124k mile RHD 95 in similar condition could be 21k.
I reckon this car you're talking about is worth 18 to 19 tops. Remember, one day you will have to sell this on...
VS
(all IMHO, etc.)
P.S. My tidy Iris Blue 993 (see www.total911.com )with 55k miles and FSH was only 22k. You do the math.
I understood what you meant, engine rebuild was done in Belgium but car is here now.
94/95 993 LHD with 100k miles on the clock and in excellent condition (original with stone chips, not resprayed) should command 20k IMHO.
124k mile RHD 95 in similar condition could be 21k.
I reckon this car you're talking about is worth 18 to 19 tops. Remember, one day you will have to sell this on...
VS
(all IMHO, etc.)
P.S. My tidy Iris Blue 993 (see www.total911.com )with 55k miles and FSH was only 22k. You do the math.
Thanks VS, you have an absolutely immaculate 993!
I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on the price of the car. Anyway, will go and check it out and post back with updates. It has been for sale for a while, so I suppose it is hard to shift a high miler 993. But then again it does depend on the price. It has had a respray to cover the stonechips, apparently most of the miles were on the continental motorways. I must say I am quite tempted...and yes, resale value in a few years will be on my mind... The exterior pics look immaculate. Interior the seats look a bit saggy. Will go through the documents but not sure how helpful that will be as I dont speak Belgian!
I'll also get a local independent to do the pre-purchase checks in case of other gremlins that I may have missed...anyone know how much people are asking for this?
Thanks again.
>> Edited by chicklets on Tuesday 22 March 14:17
I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on the price of the car. Anyway, will go and check it out and post back with updates. It has been for sale for a while, so I suppose it is hard to shift a high miler 993. But then again it does depend on the price. It has had a respray to cover the stonechips, apparently most of the miles were on the continental motorways. I must say I am quite tempted...and yes, resale value in a few years will be on my mind...
The exterior pics look immaculate. Interior the seats look a bit saggy. Will go through the documents but not sure how helpful that will be as I dont speak Belgian! I'll also get a local independent to do the pre-purchase checks in case of other gremlins that I may have missed...anyone know how much people are asking for this?
Thanks again.
>> Edited by chicklets on Tuesday 22 March 14:17
Chicklets
Was in a similar position to you a year ago, after looking around at some rather scraggy LHD's I decided to save a bit extra and go for a RHD, I paid £24500 for my N plate 993 C2 89K (Varioram) has lowered chassis, sport seats, 18 inch turbo's, air con etc, nothing wrong with left hookers but have seen some higher mileage RHD's for the price you are looking at...just my thoughts..
If it's had alot of stone chips and been resprayed well, then this saves you the job. I really don't understand the "it must be original paint even if it's peppered in stone chips".
Cars can get stone chipped within 20k if used as they should be, on long journeys on quite a few motorways/autobahns.
Better to have a nice new paint job on the front IMO.
Cars can get stone chipped within 20k if used as they should be, on long journeys on quite a few motorways/autobahns.
Better to have a nice new paint job on the front IMO.
I nearly posted to ask whether it had had a full repaint - if the answer is yes - I'd be very suspicious...but I agree that front end repaints, if done well are perfectly acceptable and par for the course.
If the car had 70k on the clock I think it'd be about the right money, but it has done a lot of miles, which is probably why it hasn't sold yet (it's the wrong side of £20k for a car with that mileage IMHO).
IF you get a minute, check out that thread ref. the red RHD car for £22k that was mentioned here last week....
My final point - I've been umming and ahhing about buying another lhd car (my 911 is off to Germany all being well, this weekend). I think that the limited market potential for lhd cars over here means that unless the car is very rare, or a fair chunk cheaper than even the most doggiest RHD example of the same car, it is not worth buying lhd. This is purely for resale purposes, not for dynamics - lhd 911s and Feraris seem to have a far better seating position for the driver to my mind.
If the car had 70k on the clock I think it'd be about the right money, but it has done a lot of miles, which is probably why it hasn't sold yet (it's the wrong side of £20k for a car with that mileage IMHO).
IF you get a minute, check out that thread ref. the red RHD car for £22k that was mentioned here last week....
My final point - I've been umming and ahhing about buying another lhd car (my 911 is off to Germany all being well, this weekend). I think that the limited market potential for lhd cars over here means that unless the car is very rare, or a fair chunk cheaper than even the most doggiest RHD example of the same car, it is not worth buying lhd. This is purely for resale purposes, not for dynamics - lhd 911s and Feraris seem to have a far better seating position for the driver to my mind.
Agree with everyone else here - seems an optimistic price for a leggy LHD. If the previous owner bought abroad and is the first owner in the UK then let him/her take the big hit, make a low offer.
Other than the already mentioned bits to look at:
* A batch of early cars had shady wiring looms and were subject to recall (not sure this applies to C4s, all mine have been C2s);
* OEM dampers on normal 993s are utter trousers and will definitely be buggered after 124k miles, check to see if they've been replaced (best replaced with uprated units, OEM are Monroe IIRC and have short working lives);
* Ensure all ventilation motors work correctly. Replacing them is expensive labour-wise. Air con on 993s is crap, re-gasses are usually required every year but check the condenser isn't corroded to buggery.
For that price I'd want everything to be tip-top maintained with no required work for at least that year. Having said that, 993s are marvellous cars so if you buy it, enjoy it!!!
Other than the already mentioned bits to look at:
* A batch of early cars had shady wiring looms and were subject to recall (not sure this applies to C4s, all mine have been C2s);
* OEM dampers on normal 993s are utter trousers and will definitely be buggered after 124k miles, check to see if they've been replaced (best replaced with uprated units, OEM are Monroe IIRC and have short working lives);
* Ensure all ventilation motors work correctly. Replacing them is expensive labour-wise. Air con on 993s is crap, re-gasses are usually required every year but check the condenser isn't corroded to buggery.
For that price I'd want everything to be tip-top maintained with no required work for at least that year. Having said that, 993s are marvellous cars so if you buy it, enjoy it!!!
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