Person opened their door as I reserved into a space - fault?
Discussion
Hackney said:
keirik said:
thetapeworm said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When you are reversing, unless you hit another reversing vehicle, anything that happens is down to you. As the person reversing, the onus is always on you to ensure the path is clear, and remains clear throughout the manoeuvre.
That would be my take on it.
That's kind of where I am with it too but it's pretty much impossible to avoid someone flinging their door into your car no matter how much care you take That would be my take on it.
You are the one moving, it's your responsibility to make sure its clear
You see, children are to be protected by opening car doors, but opening car doors are to be protected from reversing cars.
RipTrip1 said:
Replace the door with a 5 year old who wondered behind OPs car. Is it the childs fault he got a broken arm or the OP's 1/10 observations?
Must of got his licence from a box of rice crispies...
The troll game is strong in you sir, I applaud this,fine work. Must of got his licence from a box of rice crispies...
Do you have any scenarios that involve animals?
The question of what insurance companies would do has been well covered. I’m wondering if the OP is also asking a different question, namely morally whose fault was it?
To answer this, you have to ask both ‘who caused the accident?’ and ‘who could have prevented it?’. As I understand it, both caused it, since it took both the Mini door opening and the OP’s car reversing to create the damage. So 50:50 on that one (see note below).
However, in terms of prevention, there’s so little time to react in the moment to such a close collision happening, that it’s a question of who could/should reasonably have predicted the risk. The Mini driver could have looked behind and if so could have seen a car reversing and waited before opening their door. The OP could also have seen a driver sitting in the Mini and stopped, just in case they opened the door. However, I think this is slightly less reasonable, as a driver may just waiting and not going to open the door at that moment at all. I’m therefore 75:25 to the OP on this one.
So overall, I’d say on balance the fault rested more with the Mini driver, but it isn’t clear cut either way, and so the OP should also take some of the responsibility.
Note: appreciate that the Mini driver was being thoroughly unpleasant, and also that she may well have opened her door without looking even if the OP had finished parking. However, unfortunately neither have a bearing on the moral case, the first being irrelevant, and the second being hypothetical.
To answer this, you have to ask both ‘who caused the accident?’ and ‘who could have prevented it?’. As I understand it, both caused it, since it took both the Mini door opening and the OP’s car reversing to create the damage. So 50:50 on that one (see note below).
However, in terms of prevention, there’s so little time to react in the moment to such a close collision happening, that it’s a question of who could/should reasonably have predicted the risk. The Mini driver could have looked behind and if so could have seen a car reversing and waited before opening their door. The OP could also have seen a driver sitting in the Mini and stopped, just in case they opened the door. However, I think this is slightly less reasonable, as a driver may just waiting and not going to open the door at that moment at all. I’m therefore 75:25 to the OP on this one.
So overall, I’d say on balance the fault rested more with the Mini driver, but it isn’t clear cut either way, and so the OP should also take some of the responsibility.
Note: appreciate that the Mini driver was being thoroughly unpleasant, and also that she may well have opened her door without looking even if the OP had finished parking. However, unfortunately neither have a bearing on the moral case, the first being irrelevant, and the second being hypothetical.
Sheepshanks said:
hutchst said:
Another good reason to buy a car with a reversing camera.
I don't know - cars I've driven with them, you tend to stare at the screen, which can't be a good thing.The one thing that never ceases to bemuse me is reverse parking. It's been done to death on here and I know all the pros and cons but on balance it makes more sense to me to forward park.
Saturday stopping off for a bite on the run went to pull into a parking spot (very busy, not waiting for spaces but lots of cars, people and movement) only to have to slam the anchors on to avoid a chap who had driven round the the car park tot he opposite side and driven 'through' one space to pull up in the one i was turning into. Mildly annoying in one respect, but we have all done what that chap was doing (although i'd like to think with a little less pace but ho hum) but a little reminder that if you think that they are out to get you everywhere, regardless of what you do, you'd likely be right
TwigtheWonderkid said:
When you are reversing, unless you hit another reversing vehicle, anything that happens is down to you. As the person reversing, the onus is always on you to ensure the path is clear, and remains clear throughout the manoeuvre.
That would be my take on it.
Reversing is no different to driving forwards - it doesn't put any extra burden upon the driver to avoid a collision. If someone chucks a child or door in front of you while going forwards or backwards, it's not "down to you" if you have no time to react.That would be my take on it.
Coincidentally the two relevant laws to this discussion are consecutive sections in the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, but neither of them applies in this case:
105. No person shall open, or cause or permit to be opened, any door of a vehicle on a road so as to injure or endanger any person.
106. No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle backwards on a road further than may be requisite for the safety or reasonable convenience of the occupants of the vehicle or other traffic, unless it is a road roller or is engaged in the construction, maintenance or repair of the road.
Trimmed down video from the rear camera, it shows very little, not even the bollard or all the children running around, and I've removed the sound of my little family and the bang, so fairly pointless I guess.
It does show the Mini with its door closed and then a sudden stop by me from my 58mph Russ Swift style reverse.
https://youtu.be/a8M226BG9E8
You can view in 1080p (maybe more?) for even more cinematic titillation if you want.
It does show the Mini with its door closed and then a sudden stop by me from my 58mph Russ Swift style reverse.
https://youtu.be/a8M226BG9E8
You can view in 1080p (maybe more?) for even more cinematic titillation if you want.
Edited by thetapeworm on Monday 24th June 10:06
LeoSayer said:
Rule 239 Highway Code
"you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic"
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiti...
It's a 'MUST' so there is a law about it.
Read it again. Mrs. MiniDriver complied with Rule 239."you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic"
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiti...
It's a 'MUST' so there is a law about it.
I completely understand the OP's frustration, especially when you know that if you'd been looking in the side mirror rather than the reversing camera screen, or spotted the woman as being likely to get out the car, perhaps you could have avoided it.
It's that feeling of "well, s
t, I wish I'd done XYZ and then I wouldn't be in this scenario", even though it's more down to the other person involved being a fking idiot.
I'd still say the prime issue here is the door being opened at a stupid time, I think it sounds like at that moment the door opener had far more opportunity to prevent the situation happening than the OP did, and it certainly sounds like she had a lovely attitude about it.
As for the "what if it was a child" stuff, it probably wouldn't have damaged the OP's paint, and perhaps the child and parent would both have learnt a valuable lesson about how to behave around moving cars.
It's that feeling of "well, s
t, I wish I'd done XYZ and then I wouldn't be in this scenario", even though it's more down to the other person involved being a fking idiot. I'd still say the prime issue here is the door being opened at a stupid time, I think it sounds like at that moment the door opener had far more opportunity to prevent the situation happening than the OP did, and it certainly sounds like she had a lovely attitude about it.
As for the "what if it was a child" stuff, it probably wouldn't have damaged the OP's paint, and perhaps the child and parent would both have learnt a valuable lesson about how to behave around moving cars.
InitialDave said:
I completely understand the OP's frustration, especially when you know that if you'd been looking in the side mirror rather than the reversing camera screen, or spotted the woman as being likely to get out the car, perhaps you could have avoided it.
It's that feeling of "well, st, I wish I'd done XYZ and then I wouldn't be in this scenario", even though it's more down to the other person involved being a fking idiot.
I'd still say the prime issue here is the door being opened at a stupid time, I think it sounds like at that moment the door opener had far more opportunity to prevent the situation happening than the OP did, and it certainly sounds like she had a lovely attitude about it.
As for the "what if it was a child" stuff, it probably wouldn't have damaged the OP's paint, and perhaps the child and parent would both have learnt a valuable lesson about how to behave around moving cars.
So many "what if" things, you're spot on. It's that feeling of "well, s
t, I wish I'd done XYZ and then I wouldn't be in this scenario", even though it's more down to the other person involved being a fking idiot. I'd still say the prime issue here is the door being opened at a stupid time, I think it sounds like at that moment the door opener had far more opportunity to prevent the situation happening than the OP did, and it certainly sounds like she had a lovely attitude about it.
As for the "what if it was a child" stuff, it probably wouldn't have damaged the OP's paint, and perhaps the child and parent would both have learnt a valuable lesson about how to behave around moving cars.
I went down a parking road I'd normally avoid like the plague, I didn't go to a parent & child space at the far end away from the main car park like I usually would, I didn't go for a space with nobody either side as I'd normally prefer, I even saw the woman in the car (and said to my wife that it looked like she was breastfeeding as we approached, she wasn't) and evaluated the possible risk and went as slow as I could. But clearly I wasn't looking at the place I would have liked to have been looking at in that split second window I had. If I had I still don't think I'd have been able to stop quickly enough but who know.
We'd just come back from the emergency doctors with a sick child, all I wanted to do was get in to the pharmacy, get the meds and escape back to the safety of my home again, that said I was being my usual cautious self, sadly s
t happened and I turned to PH for some therapy and amusement from the conspiracy types. Nobody died, it's a few scratches but the woman is still a horrible human IMO.
OP
morally you're clear I agree with the non-trolls, the door was closed when the back of your car passed it and she opened it into the side of a moving vehicle.
Personally i would have parked elsewhere given the shoddy state of her parking, not straight and right out by the line. Even if she wasn't in the car she would likely have had issues once you were in the space due to having a 3 door car and likely ended up in your door anwyay.
morally you're clear I agree with the non-trolls, the door was closed when the back of your car passed it and she opened it into the side of a moving vehicle.
Personally i would have parked elsewhere given the shoddy state of her parking, not straight and right out by the line. Even if she wasn't in the car she would likely have had issues once you were in the space due to having a 3 door car and likely ended up in your door anwyay.
thetapeworm said:
We'd just come back from the emergency doctors with a sick child, all I wanted to do was get in to the pharmacy, get the meds and escape back to the safety of my home again, that said I was being my usual cautious self, sadly st happened and I turned to PH for some therapy and amusement from the conspiracy types.
You’ve got my sympathies here. What a time to meet one of the world’s ‘less thoughtful’ (being polite) people.... Your reasonable attitude under the circumstances is very commendable. t happened and I turned to PH for some therapy and amusement from the conspiracy types. thetapeworm said:
I just think it's generally safer to reverse towards things that aren't (usually) moving rather than into a place with the possibility of pedestrians with trolleys, cars moving at speed etc. I feel much happier going forwards towards those.
Anyway it's pretty much polished out, just some scratches on the trim where the initial impact was and some light ones on the paint.
I still don't think I was to blame but I'll certainly up the already high levels of caution from now on.
I appreciate the therapy this post has brought, thanks.
I have a similar scrape at the back of my car - how did you get rid of it? What product did you use? Looks amazing. Anyway it's pretty much polished out, just some scratches on the trim where the initial impact was and some light ones on the paint.
I still don't think I was to blame but I'll certainly up the already high levels of caution from now on.
I appreciate the therapy this post has brought, thanks.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
And what does the highway code say about reversing? Any "MUSTS"? Like you must ensure it's safe to do so?
No it doesn't. In any event it could have been safe to reverse the car until the unsafe act by the third party. If the car was stationary and the door hit the car who's fault. Why does the moving car diminish their responsibility which is enshrined in law?
M666 EVO said:
I have a similar scrape at the back of my car - how did you get rid of it? What product did you use? Looks amazing.
A rotary polisher and some Menzerna polish left over from my detailing days, any mildly abrasive polish that breaks down as you use it should work though. Opening a door is still driving.
The other thread.
My crystal ball was working
PS what speed would you have to enter a space to ensure that you could avoid any door flung open? Clue: the answer is an integer <1.
The other thread.
My crystal ball was working
PS what speed would you have to enter a space to ensure that you could avoid any door flung open? Clue: the answer is an integer <1.
thetapeworm said:
Trimmed down video from the rear camera, it shows very little, not even the bollard or all the children running around, and I've removed the sound of my little family and the bang, so fairly pointless I guess.
It does show the Mini with its door closed and then a sudden stop by me from my 58mph Russ Swift style reverse.
https://youtu.be/a8M226BG9E8
You can view in 1080p (maybe more?) for even more cinematic titillation if you want.
That video doesn’t show her opening her door onto your car.It does show the Mini with its door closed and then a sudden stop by me from my 58mph Russ Swift style reverse.
https://youtu.be/a8M226BG9E8
You can view in 1080p (maybe more?) for even more cinematic titillation if you want.
Edited by thetapeworm on Monday 24th June 10:06
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