Long Time Diesel Hater Is On The Verge Of Buying A Diesel ..

[Filibuster]

Hi everybody,

I'm a Diesel hater since forever. I have started threads about how much I hate Diesels before, but now I'm seriously thinking about buying one myself

Now, if I do this, I might as well do it properly. I'm about to the the plunge and buy a Range Rover. The Mini Cooper S I bought 1.5 years ago just isn't the right car for me (replaced an '04 Audi S4 Avant and is accompanied by a 997 Porsche C2 and a '67 Volvo 1800 S). Why I didn't buy a Range Rover then is beyond me (Well, I know exactly why! The OH didn't want a Range back then, but I persuaded her the last year )

Now I'm looking at the last two MY L322 Range Rovers with the 8-speed auto boxes.
This leaves me with two engine choices: a glorious 5.0l S/C V8 and a smelly Diesel.

Probably because I'm getting old, for the first time in my live I really see the Diesel as a better alternative
Of course it helps that we are talking about a 4.4l twin turbo V8 Diesel

And I have come to the conclusion that the Diesel suits a FF Range Rover better than a 510hp petrol screamer.
This engine suits the Range Rover Sport much better, imho.

Now am I mad buying a Diesel in this environment we are today?
I live on the continent (Switzerland) and will be doing ~ 10k miles, all long distance mostly across all of Europe.
(especially to Paris, since I have friends and family there)
The car has a Euro 5 and to my knowledge there are only two streets in Hamburg I couldn't be driving on today.

What are your views? I'm not asking about whether I'm able to drive a FFRR Diesel in the year 2035 in the center of London, but what about 2025? What about Paris, Milan, Turin in the next 5 years?

(Also all comments regarding the Range Rover are welcome )

[Cliftonite]

Do you have a nearby dealer or Land Rover specialist?

[IJWS15]

From the discussions in our office between the LR/RR owners are you used to a close relationship with the dealer?

[JakeT]

I am much poorer than you, but I did something similar. I was 'sensible' and bought a BMW 330d. I just couldn't get on with it. There was nothing wrong with it, but at the same time I never wanted to drive it. I also hated having to put a glove on to fuel up, else I would have a dirty (well, dirtier than usual) hand for the rest of the day. The sound, and vibrations it produced over a petrol model was too much, too.

I do 25,000 miles per year, although I'm hoping to halve this soon. I prefer the petrol one to drive all the time. The fuel consumption difference isn't as bad as one would expect, maybe 10MPG. For that sort of cost difference, I decided a petrol one was better.

I'd get the S/C 5.0 model. Much more special in a Rangie. and I'm sure the fuel economy difference won't bee too shocking.

[MuscleSedan]

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/j...

[Deendog]

Morning
I have a 2012 FFRR (as well as a 997)
The Range Rover suits the v8 diesel very well. Lots of torque and surprisingly good noise. It is genuinely a pleasure to drive hard (for what it is)
Petrol is probably marginally better but for the loss of range and extra fuel costs it didn’t make sense for us
I think the L322 is a fabulous car.

[RizzoTheRat]

Filibuster said:

Now am I mad buying a Diesel in this environment we are today?
I live on the continent (Switzerland) and will be doing ~ 10k miles, all long distance mostly across all of Europe.
(especially to Paris, since I have friends and family there)
The car has a Euro 5 and to my knowledge there are only two streets in Hamburg I couldn't be driving on today.

What are your views? I'm not asking about whether I'm able to drive a FFRR Diesel in the year 2035 in the center of London, but what about 2025? What about Paris, Milan, Turin in the next 5 years?

https://www.green-zones.eu/en.html has pretty good info on planned future zones. There's a phone app that also has all the data. I got my German green sticker for my Euro4 the other week and there's not actually that many places I can't go...yet.

[anonymous-user]

RizzoTheRat said:

https://www.green-zones.eu/en.html has pretty good info on planned future zones. There's a phone app that also has all the data. I got my German green sticker for my Euro4 the other week and there's not actually that many places I can't go...yet.

I think the worrying thing is that the line in the sand has been clearly drawn, and even though it may not be TOO inconvenient at the moment, it seems that the likelihood is that pre euro 6 diesels are going to be heavily legislated against in the coming years.

Buying an expensive euro 5 diesel seems a bit risky to me, unless you don't care at all about its residual value and can be pretty certain that you won't have to use it in urban areas regularly in the future.

[RizzoTheRat]

WorldBoss said:

Buying an expensive euro 5 diesel seems a bit risky to me.

As a long term diesel driver, I wouldn't be buying another Euro 4 now, there's already areas of some European cities I can't go in, including most of Brussels and Paris, but for Euro 5 it depends how long you'll plan to keep it, and if you really plan to go in to many cities. If was planning to go in to central Paris or Brussels I wouldn't be taking the car anyway.
But as you say it will filter out to small town eventually. I'm thinking of buying a camper van in the next year or two and would feel happier going for a Euro 6 than a 5.

[aeropilot]

Filibuster said:

Hi everybody,

I'm a Diesel hater since forever. I have started threads about how much I hate Diesels before, but now I'm seriously thinking about buying one myself

2 years ago, after 37 years of driving petrol engine cars only, I did the same thing when I bought a BMW X5 40d.

Filibuster said:

And I have come to the conclusion that the Diesel suits a FF Range Rover better than a 510hp petrol screamer.
This engine suits the Range Rover Sport much better, imho.

Now am I mad buying a Diesel in this environment we are today?

Yes the diesel suits the RR better, and no I don't think your mad.

Filibuster said:

I live on the continent (Switzerland) and will be doing ~ 10k miles, all long distance mostly across all of Europe.
(especially to Paris, since I have friends and family there)
The car has a Euro 5 and to my knowledge there are only two streets in Hamburg I couldn't be driving on today.

What are your views? I'm not asking about whether I'm able to drive a FFRR Diesel in the year 2035 in the center of London, but what about 2025? What about Paris, Milan, Turin in the next 5 years?

As has been mentioned already, I think buying any diesel which isn't min of Euro 6 compliant is however mad (as is buying a RR for long distance driving )

I think within the next few years (and definately less than 5) more and more european cites will do as London have already done with the cut-off being min Euro 6 for diesel cars.

[thelostboy]

It is a wonderful combination; had the 4.4 diesel when new and the engine is fantastic.

[Filibuster]

Well, a short follow up:

I'm about to pull the trigger on a 70k miles; 2010 3.6 TDV8 Vogue with the facelifted interior (TFT instrument cluster) in dark blue with navy interior.
It's a lovely colour combination but with a strange option list. It has 4-zone climate control; TV in headrest with headphones present; ventilated front seats; but no BLIS (unfortunately) or 360° camera (would have been nice for tight parking spaces).









As said, it has 70k miles on it exactly and is a rather good deal, since it is under book value (Eurotax).

I have driven all variants of the later L322 FFRR: 3.6 TDV8; 4.4 TDV8; 5.0 S/C.
What I realised is that the car feels, drives and looks quite dated by now. I don't mind this, but I'm not willing to pay £25k for one (the upper end of 5.0 S/C and 4.4 TDV8)
Other criterias that had to be fulfilled once I have seen a couple of them: no tinted windows; not black (essentially the only colours for me are blue or green). My personal max amount of £ I'm willing to spend on a L322 is £15k. (The blue/blue 3.6 with 70k miles is cheaper than that.)
This narrows me down to virtually 1 or 2 cars in Switzerland, atm.

I missed out on buying a lovely '08 3.6 TDV8 in tonga green with 140k miles. It was really cheap but came with a 2" thick folder of invoices, including a fully rebuilt air suspension allround earlier this year. It has gone in 1 week only. Well, I call it faith and moved on.

In conclusion after 5 different L322 I went seeing/driving is the following. A Diesel is a Diesel and is hateful. Yes, they are reasonably refined, but that sound is just wrong. The 4.4 is only a little bit more refined than the 3.6, but to me not worth the hefty premium. When they are on the move, not accelerating heavily and the radio is playing they are just about bearable...
The 5.0 is hugely quick for a 3 ton monster - and lacks the clattering Diesel noise - but other than not sounding terrible, it is just a nicely, refined engine, not really adding to the character or the appeal of the car.

If there would be a sub £15k 5.0 S/C that meets my above criteria (and be in decent nick) I'd buy it. But there isn't and I want a FFRR and I want it now!
So, know I only need to convince myself not to listen to my OH or anyone else who thinks this is a really terrible idea (which is basically everyone around me) and just buy it.

Did I say that I want a bloody FFRR for this winter??

I'll keep you posted and will do a reader's car thread when I have it

[Filibuster]

WorldBoss said:

RizzoTheRat said:

https://www.green-zones.eu/en.html has pretty good info on planned future zones. There's a phone app that also has all the data. I got my German green sticker for my Euro4 the other week and there's not actually that many places I can't go...yet.

I think the worrying thing is that the line in the sand has been clearly drawn, and even though it may not be TOO inconvenient at the moment, it seems that the likelihood is that pre euro 6 diesels are going to be heavily legislated against in the coming years.

Buying an expensive euro 5 diesel seems a bit risky to me, unless you don't care at all about its residual value and can be pretty certain that you won't have to use it in urban areas regularly in the future.

Thanks for this really helpful App!! I installed immediately.
The 3.6 TDV8 is a Euro 4, in France meets Crit'Air 3 standard, and has a Green Umweltplakette in Germany.

From what I see I'm banned from driving in certain segments (!) of streets in Hamburg; Freiburg and Stuttgart, as well as one town in Holland. There are temporary bans possible in Paris. To this date all those bans are enforced by physical police controls, not ANPR. The fines in Germany are supposedly around €25 in Paris €68. For the time being I'm not worried.

Also I feel much more comfortable paying £15k for a Euro 4 than £25k for a Euro 5 Diesel.
I recon both will be worth £10k when severe Diesel bans get introduced in city centers in the next 2 years. Last chance !!

[Grindle]

I had a 4.4 diesel RR for a year and it's got a great engine.
Stifled as standard, i got it to around 425 bhp with fairly simple tuning and it was then the beast i knew it could and should have been. Strangely it was no worse on mpg afterwards, either.
The sheer shove was immense, especially with 2.5 tonnes to move. Great car.