(Gradually) going 'off grid'?
Discussion
Anyone else doing it?
Partly over privacy concerns but mostly for my mental health, I'm trying to give consideration to my over reliance on tech and privacy naeivity:
- moving away from Gmail
- deleted Facebook
- reducing smart phone use
- changed browsers (to Duck Duck Go)
I know it can come across a bit 'tinfoil hat' but as time goes on I am finding myself more and more concerned about online privacy and the detrimental effects of being 'always online' - two different yet interconnected worries I suppose!
Anything else I should be doing (not quite at the 'recycling my own p*ss stage yet!)?
Anyone else also taking steps to make changes?
And yes, I guess I am aware of the irony of posting this on a public forum, from a smartphone, on the internet, at the weekend when I SHOULD be outside, getting some fresh air.
Partly over privacy concerns but mostly for my mental health, I'm trying to give consideration to my over reliance on tech and privacy naeivity:
- moving away from Gmail
- deleted Facebook
- reducing smart phone use
- changed browsers (to Duck Duck Go)
I know it can come across a bit 'tinfoil hat' but as time goes on I am finding myself more and more concerned about online privacy and the detrimental effects of being 'always online' - two different yet interconnected worries I suppose!
Anything else I should be doing (not quite at the 'recycling my own p*ss stage yet!)?
Anyone else also taking steps to make changes?
And yes, I guess I am aware of the irony of posting this on a public forum, from a smartphone, on the internet, at the weekend when I SHOULD be outside, getting some fresh air.
Edited by Moos3h on Saturday 29th February 18:45
I think Brave might beat DuckDuckGo's browser:
https://www.slant.co/versus/547/16094/~duckduckgo_...
I do use DuckDuckGo for search though.
I also turn off location for most apps.
That's it though - basically, if you are online you've got no privacy.
https://www.slant.co/versus/547/16094/~duckduckgo_...
I do use DuckDuckGo for search though.
I also turn off location for most apps.
That's it though - basically, if you are online you've got no privacy.
I'm waiting for the deluge of 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' posts, and those saying 'privacy is dead - why do you think you should have privacy anyway?' 
If you want to be as off-grid as possible in this day and age, you'll have to...:
- avoid being in any pictures on social media (because Facial Recognition, and also picture-scraping by third parties),
- use TOR or another proxy tool online,
- use Protonmail,
- restrict/refuse cookies online as much as possible,
- go through all the privacy settings on your computer/OS and turn off everything - Siri, the MS version of Siri, camera, microphone, access to your data by apps, typing technique analysis, etc.,
- not ring your bank or HMRC (IIRC) (because of Voice Recognition),
- withdraw as much cash as possible in one hit and use it for everything instead of bank cards,
- avoid cash machines with cameras built-in (because recording your face and linking to your bank card),
- get a wallet with anti-RFID built-in (because possible to scan your cards as you walk into/out of shops etc.),
- don't use 'loyalty' cards,
- avoid Highways England motorways and dual carriageways (because ANPR logged for 2+ years),
- avoid local ANPR cameras (usually located on all the easy-to-use main roads, which transmit to the Police),
- park nearby and walk into supermarkets/McDonalds etc. (because logging/tracking ANPR data),
- use a PAYG phone bought with cash and SIM cards paid for with cash and topped up with vouchers bought with cash at a human-operated till without a camera staring at your face (because texts and calls logged for 2+ years),
- use 2G network wherever possible (because fewer, stronger transmitters/receivers, therefore harder to monitor your movements in detail - which 4G/5G will make much easier due to more, lower-power towers.)
- don't use phones with facial recognition or fingerprint recognition or GPS,
- don't use phones with Siri and similar 'listening' software built-in,
- don't use Alexa and other 'smart' speakers (because they record everything and transmit it to HQ),
- don't use Netflix or Amazon Firestick or Sky or any other subscription service (because track your usage/habits/trends and transmit to HQ),
- don't buy 'smart' TVs and other white goods that connect to the internet (because listening / transmitting your usage data to HQ/China),
- don't use 'Ring' doorbells or similar,
- don't buy/use newer cars with sat nav (because transmitting your usage and location to HQ),
- keep your paper driving licence if you haven't 'upgraded' to a photo licence,
- don't get a passport if you haven't already got one,
- avoid flying (because obligatory facial recognition gates at some airports, I believe)
- avoid Intu and other shopping centres (because at least one was/is trialling Facial Recognition linked to Police databases)
- avoid town centres with CCTV (because some are using facial recognition and/or gait analysis to identify/track people - overtly, like London, or covertly),
- don't use Bluetooth devices (that transmit unique identifiers for any local receivers to capture and track, such as BluTruth monitors on the highway network and (IIRC) in shopping centres so they can track your movements/habits),
- ...
It's basically a total PITA and/or impossible to be totally off-grid unless you are living in deepest, darkest Scotland or one of the islands, but it's not that hard to do most of the above with a little effort.
If you want to be as off-grid as possible in this day and age, you'll have to...:
- avoid being in any pictures on social media (because Facial Recognition, and also picture-scraping by third parties),
- use TOR or another proxy tool online,
- use Protonmail,
- restrict/refuse cookies online as much as possible,
- go through all the privacy settings on your computer/OS and turn off everything - Siri, the MS version of Siri, camera, microphone, access to your data by apps, typing technique analysis, etc.,
- not ring your bank or HMRC (IIRC) (because of Voice Recognition),
- withdraw as much cash as possible in one hit and use it for everything instead of bank cards,
- avoid cash machines with cameras built-in (because recording your face and linking to your bank card),
- get a wallet with anti-RFID built-in (because possible to scan your cards as you walk into/out of shops etc.),
- don't use 'loyalty' cards,
- avoid Highways England motorways and dual carriageways (because ANPR logged for 2+ years),
- avoid local ANPR cameras (usually located on all the easy-to-use main roads, which transmit to the Police),
- park nearby and walk into supermarkets/McDonalds etc. (because logging/tracking ANPR data),
- use a PAYG phone bought with cash and SIM cards paid for with cash and topped up with vouchers bought with cash at a human-operated till without a camera staring at your face (because texts and calls logged for 2+ years),
- use 2G network wherever possible (because fewer, stronger transmitters/receivers, therefore harder to monitor your movements in detail - which 4G/5G will make much easier due to more, lower-power towers.)
- don't use phones with facial recognition or fingerprint recognition or GPS,
- don't use phones with Siri and similar 'listening' software built-in,
- don't use Alexa and other 'smart' speakers (because they record everything and transmit it to HQ),
- don't use Netflix or Amazon Firestick or Sky or any other subscription service (because track your usage/habits/trends and transmit to HQ),
- don't buy 'smart' TVs and other white goods that connect to the internet (because listening / transmitting your usage data to HQ/China),
- don't use 'Ring' doorbells or similar,
- don't buy/use newer cars with sat nav (because transmitting your usage and location to HQ),
- keep your paper driving licence if you haven't 'upgraded' to a photo licence,
- don't get a passport if you haven't already got one,
- avoid flying (because obligatory facial recognition gates at some airports, I believe)
- avoid Intu and other shopping centres (because at least one was/is trialling Facial Recognition linked to Police databases)
- avoid town centres with CCTV (because some are using facial recognition and/or gait analysis to identify/track people - overtly, like London, or covertly),
- don't use Bluetooth devices (that transmit unique identifiers for any local receivers to capture and track, such as BluTruth monitors on the highway network and (IIRC) in shopping centres so they can track your movements/habits),
- ...
It's basically a total PITA and/or impossible to be totally off-grid unless you are living in deepest, darkest Scotland or one of the islands, but it's not that hard to do most of the above with a little effort.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Saturday 29th February 20:43
grumbledoak said:
I'm trying AdGuard's DNS servers
https://adguard.com/en/adguard-dns/overview.html
Do we know if that is as private as it says it is?https://adguard.com/en/adguard-dns/overview.html
I have a sniffer/blocker on the Mac (Little Snitch). Never had a facebook account but this app blocker section used over a 1400+ listing for facebook trackers. You don't get away from by just deleting facebook 
Then there are the ad trackers (another list with around 5000 or so and won't be all).
Then there are the ad trackers (another list with around 5000 or so and won't be all).
Moos3h said:
I've gone the whole hog and bought a Nokia 106!
Cheating a bit as still have iPhone for work but the Android is going in the bin.
Don't bin it, root it and stick something like /e/ OS on it https://e.foundation/Cheating a bit as still have iPhone for work but the Android is going in the bin.
And have a look at the DeGoogle sub on Reddit - as it's name suggests it's for getting away from Google, but it'll lead you to various other ways of protecting your privacy via the use of free open source software (FOSS) and alternative app stores like F-Droid etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/
I'm just waiting for my Google Pixel 2xl's warranty to run out in a couple of months and then I'm going to see about putting Graphene OS or similar on it.
On the PC I use Firefox and DDG for search with u block origin/https everywhere/privacy badger/decentraleyes/self-destructing cookies add-ons.
I have used Gmail and Browser since about 2002 and Gmaps since it became available. Yet it astounds me just how little Google really know about me.
For example, I have been retired for 15-years yet I keep being asked why I have not set a work place so they can inform me about my commute time. I tried Google Music for the 3-month trial, but it never got anywhere near to selecting tracks that I might prefer to listen to.
I can honestly say that no online advertising has ever made me change my decision making, but the crudeness of their targeting must give poor results for their customers.
I tend to search and then buy, but 3-months later can still be getting pop ups for the product that I now own. I do now use Brave to reduce this annoyance. I do not use Facebook.
I appreciate that Langley and GCHQ could scan my personal stuff, but as I have a very clear conscience, then I have absolutely no concerns with that.
However, the usefulness of Google’s online services is fantastic. I regard my Android phone as equivalent to an electronic Swiss Army knife.
For example, I have been retired for 15-years yet I keep being asked why I have not set a work place so they can inform me about my commute time. I tried Google Music for the 3-month trial, but it never got anywhere near to selecting tracks that I might prefer to listen to.
I can honestly say that no online advertising has ever made me change my decision making, but the crudeness of their targeting must give poor results for their customers.
I tend to search and then buy, but 3-months later can still be getting pop ups for the product that I now own. I do now use Brave to reduce this annoyance. I do not use Facebook.
I appreciate that Langley and GCHQ could scan my personal stuff, but as I have a very clear conscience, then I have absolutely no concerns with that.
However, the usefulness of Google’s online services is fantastic. I regard my Android phone as equivalent to an electronic Swiss Army knife.
It's not something new. Back in the dark ages, around 1978, I arrested a chap for a burglary, a till snatch, so charged as theft. He refused to speak, to answer any questions, or to even sign for his property.
He was put in the cells and, as was the norm in those days, kept overnight for a fingerprint check. It came back with a fair number of precons. However, he didn't have a name. He was given a John Doe sort of thing, but it meant nothing.
I phoned a previous arresting officer and he said that he'd had the same problem and they just put him before a magistrate and dealt with him as normal.
Due to his fair-sized list of previous, the job was prosecuted by a solicitor (we used to prosecute our own offences at magistrates court) and it was taken out of my hands. It went to crown court, where he was given a defence brief, but he still said nothing.
He had no key on him, no docs, no wallet, no id marks in his clothing, no tattoos, no nothing. I even tried to id his shoes - good quality last made - by taking them to a bespoke cobbler, but it is likely, due to the wear pattern I was told, that he had bought them second hand. There was no stolen property list that included shoes.
He was not on Facebook and did not have a Google account.
It was weird. I didn't let it go, but got nowhere near finding out who he was. Most of his arrests were in and around north west London, but although that made it likely, in normal circs, that's where he came from, it was probably a deliberate ploy on his behalf.
So if you know someone aged around 35 (then), just below average height, with dark hair worn short, brown eyes and a round scar on his upper left arm (removed tattoo we thought, but with no evidence to support it) then see me.
There's a way of removing fingerprints that he had obviously not heard of.
He was put in the cells and, as was the norm in those days, kept overnight for a fingerprint check. It came back with a fair number of precons. However, he didn't have a name. He was given a John Doe sort of thing, but it meant nothing.
I phoned a previous arresting officer and he said that he'd had the same problem and they just put him before a magistrate and dealt with him as normal.
Due to his fair-sized list of previous, the job was prosecuted by a solicitor (we used to prosecute our own offences at magistrates court) and it was taken out of my hands. It went to crown court, where he was given a defence brief, but he still said nothing.
He had no key on him, no docs, no wallet, no id marks in his clothing, no tattoos, no nothing. I even tried to id his shoes - good quality last made - by taking them to a bespoke cobbler, but it is likely, due to the wear pattern I was told, that he had bought them second hand. There was no stolen property list that included shoes.
He was not on Facebook and did not have a Google account.
It was weird. I didn't let it go, but got nowhere near finding out who he was. Most of his arrests were in and around north west London, but although that made it likely, in normal circs, that's where he came from, it was probably a deliberate ploy on his behalf.
So if you know someone aged around 35 (then), just below average height, with dark hair worn short, brown eyes and a round scar on his upper left arm (removed tattoo we thought, but with no evidence to support it) then see me.
There's a way of removing fingerprints that he had obviously not heard of.
Edited by Derek Smith on Sunday 1st March 11:59
rdjohn said:
I have used Gmail and Browser since about 2002 and Gmaps since it became available. Yet it astounds me just how little Google really know about me.
For example, I have been retired for 15-years yet I keep being asked why I have not set a work place so they can inform me about my commute time. I tried Google Music for the 3-month trial, but it never got anywhere near to selecting tracks that I might prefer to listen to.
I can honestly say that no online advertising has ever made me change my decision making, but the crudeness of their targeting must give poor results for their customers.
I tend to search and then buy, but 3-months later can still be getting pop ups for the product that I now own. I do now use Brave to reduce this annoyance. I do not use Facebook.
I appreciate that Langley and GCHQ could scan my personal stuff, but as I have a very clear conscience, then I have absolutely no concerns with that.
However, the usefulness of Google’s online services is fantastic. I regard my Android phone as equivalent to an electronic Swiss Army knife.
Have you tried the Google takeout? Think that is what it is called. Lists all that they have on you if you sign in to an account and use maps etc.For example, I have been retired for 15-years yet I keep being asked why I have not set a work place so they can inform me about my commute time. I tried Google Music for the 3-month trial, but it never got anywhere near to selecting tracks that I might prefer to listen to.
I can honestly say that no online advertising has ever made me change my decision making, but the crudeness of their targeting must give poor results for their customers.
I tend to search and then buy, but 3-months later can still be getting pop ups for the product that I now own. I do now use Brave to reduce this annoyance. I do not use Facebook.
I appreciate that Langley and GCHQ could scan my personal stuff, but as I have a very clear conscience, then I have absolutely no concerns with that.
However, the usefulness of Google’s online services is fantastic. I regard my Android phone as equivalent to an electronic Swiss Army knife.
Edit
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar...
I've been taking steps that way for the last few years. There was a period where you accepted you were trading your data for the free services but it's become a lot more sinister in recent years, and there's a worrying lack of accountability and consequence for the companies involved.
The easy wins are:
I've kept my Facebook account because it is still occasionally useful. I don't post anything on it any more and sign out whenever I've finished with it. I also deleted it from my phone.
Despite my cynicism, I do love technology and have smart home stuff, some of which rely on location services which means I have to keep that enabled on my phone. Not figured out how to get around that one.
The fact is, the tech companies have tentacles everywhere. If you already have an online presence it's almost impossible to decouple yourself from them. But that doesn't mean you have to make it easy for them.
The easy wins are:
- Spread your data across services i.e. don't use one company for everything
- Don't use Google for search, use DuckDuckGo
- Don't use Chrome for browsing, use Brave or Firefox
- Don't leave your social media accounts signed in all the time
- Don't use Gmail for email, use something like Protonmail
- Set up a VPN
I've kept my Facebook account because it is still occasionally useful. I don't post anything on it any more and sign out whenever I've finished with it. I also deleted it from my phone.
Despite my cynicism, I do love technology and have smart home stuff, some of which rely on location services which means I have to keep that enabled on my phone. Not figured out how to get around that one.
The fact is, the tech companies have tentacles everywhere. If you already have an online presence it's almost impossible to decouple yourself from them. But that doesn't mean you have to make it easy for them.
Zirconia said:
rdjohn said:
I have used Gmail and Browser since about 2002 and Gmaps since it became available. Yet it astounds me just how little Google really know about me.
For example, I have been retired for 15-years yet I keep being asked why I have not set a work place so they can inform me about my commute time. I tried Google Music for the 3-month trial, but it never got anywhere near to selecting tracks that I might prefer to listen to.
I can honestly say that no online advertising has ever made me change my decision making, but the crudeness of their targeting must give poor results for their customers.
I tend to search and then buy, but 3-months later can still be getting pop ups for the product that I now own. I do now use Brave to reduce this annoyance. I do not use Facebook.
I appreciate that Langley and GCHQ could scan my personal stuff, but as I have a very clear conscience, then I have absolutely no concerns with that.
However, the usefulness of Google’s online services is fantastic. I regard my Android phone as equivalent to an electronic Swiss Army knife.
Have you tried the Google takeout? Think that is what it is called. Lists all that they have on you if you sign in to an account and use maps etc.For example, I have been retired for 15-years yet I keep being asked why I have not set a work place so they can inform me about my commute time. I tried Google Music for the 3-month trial, but it never got anywhere near to selecting tracks that I might prefer to listen to.
I can honestly say that no online advertising has ever made me change my decision making, but the crudeness of their targeting must give poor results for their customers.
I tend to search and then buy, but 3-months later can still be getting pop ups for the product that I now own. I do now use Brave to reduce this annoyance. I do not use Facebook.
I appreciate that Langley and GCHQ could scan my personal stuff, but as I have a very clear conscience, then I have absolutely no concerns with that.
However, the usefulness of Google’s online services is fantastic. I regard my Android phone as equivalent to an electronic Swiss Army knife.
Edit
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar...
Captain Raymond Holt said:
Protonmail - I can see a few recommendations, what are the big positives for those of you that use it?
cheers
There's a vast amount of information in your emails. All your purchases, your travel arrangements, every website you've signed up with, not to mention personal conversations with family and friends etc. cheers
It's mainly the assurance that that information is not being read and used to insert you into various advertising demographics or being sold on to whoever.
Generally it all works as any other email provider but I have been caught out by one downside - because Protonmail can't read the contents of your emails, the search feature can't read them either so digging out those long lost emails can be tricky.
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