New Family Wagon: Legacy 3.0 R Spec B
Discussion
Picked up a legacy a couple of weeks ago: a 130,000 mile Atlantic blue wagon. It's my second legacy (and third subaru) after 3 years in a VW CC 3.6 V6 4Motion. This example I found in the UKlegacy.com For Sale board, I was particularly drawn to the manual box and very clean MOT record.
My previous legacy hadn't been a big hit in the family. I had bought it unseen, from Scotland, and it had a lot of niggles. Plus despite multiple wet vacs, sprinkles of baking power and various odour removers, it smelt bad. The smell, combined with the blackout tints in the back, made my children feel unwell every single trip. The final nail in the coffin was that I had to drive to Liverpool twice per month in it, and the mileage rates from work were banded by engine capacity, so it was costing a lot to run. The 3.6 V6 VW I replaced it with was more economical, plus the larger engine capacity meant I was in a higher mileage allowance band.
Long term, I'm not going to have to do many miles in this (3000-4000 per year), and a lot of short trip duties will be shared with my Clio 172. So having learned from my previously legacy experience I bought another, unseen, with higher mileage, from a private seller over the internet.
The trip home was mainly uneventful, there was road speed (but not engine speed) related grumbling rumble from the back and the steering was a bit off, but it was quiet, comfortable and felt pretty good. For a car with 130K on the clock it feel very tight, there are no rattles, knock, leaks and all the electrics work ok.
My local MOT/Tyre place offers free inspections (Shout out to Cambridge protyre), so I dropped it off with them for a once over, they found some very old brake fluid and coolant, confirmed my suspicion on the wheel bearing and also pointed out a dead number plate blub. Then they got it on the alignment jig and found the toe out front and rear was miles off.
Not that's all corrected I've been wafting about it in very happily. The children like the moon roof and the generally light and airy interior. I had forgotten how nice these are to drive, the steering and suspension is just so well weighted. For a big old bus it's far more nimble than you'd expect. And the engine is so quiet and smooth my son asked if was electric. It is flippin' thirsty though. £600 per year road tax stings too.
Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread, mechanically the car seems good, but I like bit of a rolling project.
The current to do list is:
1. Sort out the stereo. I needs a modern Double din with android auto. FM radio doesn't cut it any more and I no longer own any tapes or CDs. I've done a bit of shopping already for this, I've got a double din facia, Android auto head unit and a few cables, I just need to work out how everything goes together. Some new speakers would be good too.
2. Refurb and balance the wheels then get a PDR visit booked to sort out some dings in the bonnet and roof.
3. Interior trim: the cupholders in the back just fall out, the centre consol box is ratting . Plus I'd like to do something about the handles in the front. Some of the trim around the rear seatbelt guide is coming away and looking tatty.
4. Rear window seals are starting to spilt.
5. Front windows have some light scratches.
6. Deep clean and detail. Plus new mats.
7. Exhaust heatshield sounds like it's rattling.
7. On the tip home, about 100m from my house and after 90 minutes of driving the engine management light came on for a "P0420" error. I've cleared the code, taken it for a few trips with various levels of spirited driving and 150 miles later nothing has come back, but it's something I'll keep an eye on. Average MPG for that mainly motorway trip is 30.5, so it's running pretty well. Advice from UKlegacy.com was to give it an Italian tune up...
So, any advice anyone can give on all the above would be gratefully received.
If anyone is interested, this is the thread on my previous legacy:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
From the advert:
Compulsory filling up on the way home picture:
Old ICE that needs to be replaced:
Hope I don't see this again:
My previous legacy hadn't been a big hit in the family. I had bought it unseen, from Scotland, and it had a lot of niggles. Plus despite multiple wet vacs, sprinkles of baking power and various odour removers, it smelt bad. The smell, combined with the blackout tints in the back, made my children feel unwell every single trip. The final nail in the coffin was that I had to drive to Liverpool twice per month in it, and the mileage rates from work were banded by engine capacity, so it was costing a lot to run. The 3.6 V6 VW I replaced it with was more economical, plus the larger engine capacity meant I was in a higher mileage allowance band.
Long term, I'm not going to have to do many miles in this (3000-4000 per year), and a lot of short trip duties will be shared with my Clio 172. So having learned from my previously legacy experience I bought another, unseen, with higher mileage, from a private seller over the internet.
The trip home was mainly uneventful, there was road speed (but not engine speed) related grumbling rumble from the back and the steering was a bit off, but it was quiet, comfortable and felt pretty good. For a car with 130K on the clock it feel very tight, there are no rattles, knock, leaks and all the electrics work ok.
My local MOT/Tyre place offers free inspections (Shout out to Cambridge protyre), so I dropped it off with them for a once over, they found some very old brake fluid and coolant, confirmed my suspicion on the wheel bearing and also pointed out a dead number plate blub. Then they got it on the alignment jig and found the toe out front and rear was miles off.
Not that's all corrected I've been wafting about it in very happily. The children like the moon roof and the generally light and airy interior. I had forgotten how nice these are to drive, the steering and suspension is just so well weighted. For a big old bus it's far more nimble than you'd expect. And the engine is so quiet and smooth my son asked if was electric. It is flippin' thirsty though. £600 per year road tax stings too.
Anyway, I thought I'd start a thread, mechanically the car seems good, but I like bit of a rolling project.
The current to do list is:
1. Sort out the stereo. I needs a modern Double din with android auto. FM radio doesn't cut it any more and I no longer own any tapes or CDs. I've done a bit of shopping already for this, I've got a double din facia, Android auto head unit and a few cables, I just need to work out how everything goes together. Some new speakers would be good too.
2. Refurb and balance the wheels then get a PDR visit booked to sort out some dings in the bonnet and roof.
3. Interior trim: the cupholders in the back just fall out, the centre consol box is ratting . Plus I'd like to do something about the handles in the front. Some of the trim around the rear seatbelt guide is coming away and looking tatty.
4. Rear window seals are starting to spilt.
5. Front windows have some light scratches.
6. Deep clean and detail. Plus new mats.
7. Exhaust heatshield sounds like it's rattling.
7. On the tip home, about 100m from my house and after 90 minutes of driving the engine management light came on for a "P0420" error. I've cleared the code, taken it for a few trips with various levels of spirited driving and 150 miles later nothing has come back, but it's something I'll keep an eye on. Average MPG for that mainly motorway trip is 30.5, so it's running pretty well. Advice from UKlegacy.com was to give it an Italian tune up...
So, any advice anyone can give on all the above would be gratefully received.
If anyone is interested, this is the thread on my previous legacy:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
From the advert:
Compulsory filling up on the way home picture:
Old ICE that needs to be replaced:
Hope I don't see this again:
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Monday 28th June 12:51
Lovely looking car! Excellent colour too.
Regarding the android radio, you can get a cheaper ebay android touchscreen radio and use a £50 dongle that gives it official android auto functionality. I used one that gave my android radio Apple CarPlay ability on my previous car and it worked a charm, so it may be worth having a look. Then again, android auto radios are cheap enough.
The P0420 is something I had on a previous car too, it was a loose O2 sensor which sounded like an exhaust heat shield rattle. The sensor was loose, rattling around and letting oxygen in, causing the error. May be worth having a look as you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone if it is that.
Keep the updates coming!
Regarding the android radio, you can get a cheaper ebay android touchscreen radio and use a £50 dongle that gives it official android auto functionality. I used one that gave my android radio Apple CarPlay ability on my previous car and it worked a charm, so it may be worth having a look. Then again, android auto radios are cheap enough.
The P0420 is something I had on a previous car too, it was a loose O2 sensor which sounded like an exhaust heat shield rattle. The sensor was loose, rattling around and letting oxygen in, causing the error. May be worth having a look as you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone if it is that.
Keep the updates coming!
geraintthomas said:
Lovely looking car! Excellent colour too.
Regarding the android radio, you can get a cheaper ebay android touchscreen radio and use a £50 dongle that gives it official android auto functionality. I used one that gave my android radio Apple CarPlay ability on my previous car and it worked a charm, so it may be worth having a look. Then again, android auto radios are cheap enough.
The P0420 is something I had on a previous car too, it was a loose O2 sensor which sounded like an exhaust heat shield rattle. The sensor was loose, rattling around and letting oxygen in, causing the error. May be worth having a look as you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone if it is that.
Keep the updates coming!
Thanks for the tip on the O2 sensor, at some point I'll get underneath and have a look. The brake backing plates are a bit corroded too, so I'll need to sort them out before they start making a noise. Regarding the android radio, you can get a cheaper ebay android touchscreen radio and use a £50 dongle that gives it official android auto functionality. I used one that gave my android radio Apple CarPlay ability on my previous car and it worked a charm, so it may be worth having a look. Then again, android auto radios are cheap enough.
The P0420 is something I had on a previous car too, it was a loose O2 sensor which sounded like an exhaust heat shield rattle. The sensor was loose, rattling around and letting oxygen in, causing the error. May be worth having a look as you'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone if it is that.
Keep the updates coming!
The brakes on this aren't great. The discs/calipers are huge, but it still requires a hefty shove to stop so i think some better pads, braided hoses and a master cylinder brace might go on the shopping list.
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Monday 28th June 13:25
First job on the list: new stereo. Replacing the unit is tricky, as the facia that surrounds it has all the HVAC controls built in. It is possible to import one from Japan, but the cost is £160+ and the lead time is longer than I've got patience for.
However, there are facias from Russia that work and are a lot cheaper, but are only compatible with the facelift stero, which mine isn't. But you can fit a facelift stereo into a pre facelift car.
So, a bit of ebaying and 2 weeks later I've got a cheap post facelift stereo and a russian facia for a lot less than the cost of importing a unit from japan.
Now it's just a case of combining the two.
Everything came apart fine, apart from this screw which was not budging.
Fortunately, i got one if these for my birthday:
And it quickly solved the problem.
Then from the comfort of my shed/office i happily ignored everything i know about static sensitivity and spent a bit of quiet time messing around with bits:
And in the end I've got this ready to go:
However, there are facias from Russia that work and are a lot cheaper, but are only compatible with the facelift stero, which mine isn't. But you can fit a facelift stereo into a pre facelift car.
So, a bit of ebaying and 2 weeks later I've got a cheap post facelift stereo and a russian facia for a lot less than the cost of importing a unit from japan.
Now it's just a case of combining the two.
Everything came apart fine, apart from this screw which was not budging.
Fortunately, i got one if these for my birthday:
And it quickly solved the problem.
Then from the comfort of my shed/office i happily ignored everything i know about static sensitivity and spent a bit of quiet time messing around with bits:
And in the end I've got this ready to go:
A slightly mixed bag of progress on the leggy.
The new stereo is in, and it's good to have hands free, in car calls, spotify etc.
I didn't fit this as I am useless, hamfisted and easily frustrated when it comes to anything with wires. However, I did have to argue with the professional installer who fitted it. He didn't connect the signal wire to the handbrake as per the instructions, which meant the unit wouldn't work. He tried to blame the USB cable, my phone and the head unit before accepting that he had to do it properly.
However, the new head unit is really showing up the OEM speakers. So I thought I'd have a nice easy hour or so to fit some new ones.
To my annoyance all the speaker adaptors were the wrong size. Not wanting to give up I spent ages with a dremel adjusting them, only the then found the speaker loom adaptors were also wrong. I did briefly consider cutting and soldering everything, but instead I gave up and sulked.
All the adaptor parts were from Connects2, but nothing fitted. I've found some unbranded Chinese cables on Ebay that appear to have the correct connections, but I'm not happy about what I've done to the speaker adaptors. It may be easier to make something out of MDF.
So I fell back to my comfort zone and gave the headlights a good seeing to. I've used the meguiars kit on quite a few cars now and it really works well. I've still yet to find anything that stops them going yellow after six month though.
I was getting a slight grinding nose from the front, which I'm fairly sure is the rusty brake back plates catching. I've pushed them back for now, but some replacements will be on the cards soon.
Apart from that, the legacy fulfills its brief really well. Family plus luggage carried in comfort for a camping trip with no issues at all. It's a thirsty beast though.
The new stereo is in, and it's good to have hands free, in car calls, spotify etc.
I didn't fit this as I am useless, hamfisted and easily frustrated when it comes to anything with wires. However, I did have to argue with the professional installer who fitted it. He didn't connect the signal wire to the handbrake as per the instructions, which meant the unit wouldn't work. He tried to blame the USB cable, my phone and the head unit before accepting that he had to do it properly.
However, the new head unit is really showing up the OEM speakers. So I thought I'd have a nice easy hour or so to fit some new ones.
To my annoyance all the speaker adaptors were the wrong size. Not wanting to give up I spent ages with a dremel adjusting them, only the then found the speaker loom adaptors were also wrong. I did briefly consider cutting and soldering everything, but instead I gave up and sulked.
All the adaptor parts were from Connects2, but nothing fitted. I've found some unbranded Chinese cables on Ebay that appear to have the correct connections, but I'm not happy about what I've done to the speaker adaptors. It may be easier to make something out of MDF.
So I fell back to my comfort zone and gave the headlights a good seeing to. I've used the meguiars kit on quite a few cars now and it really works well. I've still yet to find anything that stops them going yellow after six month though.
I was getting a slight grinding nose from the front, which I'm fairly sure is the rusty brake back plates catching. I've pushed them back for now, but some replacements will be on the cards soon.
Apart from that, the legacy fulfills its brief really well. Family plus luggage carried in comfort for a camping trip with no issues at all. It's a thirsty beast though.
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Wednesday 28th July 09:10
Spinakerr said:
Sounds like its ticking the boxes for stress free wagoning this summer.
The headlight defog is always a satisfying restoration to perform - its looking great.
It's doing the job well. I've just come from a little trip to Cottenham, and it's far more nimble on a back road than anything that big and old has any right to be. My son also said it's the best car we've had for not making him car sick, which is a big bonus. The headlight defog is always a satisfying restoration to perform - its looking great.
The legacy has got a lot of miles to do in the next few weeks so it'll be interesting to see how it gets on.
I've just changed the cabin filter as it was a bit manky:
I think I've sourced a good looking set of 18" subaru wheels and tyres, but the seller seems to be dragging his feet a bit on arranging a date I can pick them up....
I've just changed the cabin filter as it was a bit manky:
I think I've sourced a good looking set of 18" subaru wheels and tyres, but the seller seems to be dragging his feet a bit on arranging a date I can pick them up....
After the cabin air filer i thought I'd change the engine air filter as they're only 7.99 with next day delivery from Amazon.
Possibly the easiest change ever. 5 minutes max. The intake snorkel is held in place with two trim clips, and the air box only needs two clips popping off.
It was a bit dirty, but not that bad.
Possibly the easiest change ever. 5 minutes max. The intake snorkel is held in place with two trim clips, and the air box only needs two clips popping off.
It was a bit dirty, but not that bad.
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Sunday 8th August 20:12
For the headlights try this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-TECH-Restored-Headlig...
Or something similar, any UV stabilised clear lacquer would do. The headlights as standard have a UV protective coating which eventually breaks down and needs to be sanded off to make the lights nice and clear. If you use this lacquer you put that UV protection back on.
Should last for years, and you can cut and polish it to make it super clear.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-TECH-Restored-Headlig...
Or something similar, any UV stabilised clear lacquer would do. The headlights as standard have a UV protective coating which eventually breaks down and needs to be sanded off to make the lights nice and clear. If you use this lacquer you put that UV protection back on.
Should last for years, and you can cut and polish it to make it super clear.
shalmaneser said:
Also lovely car. A 3.0 flat 6 in a estate is such a cool thing! Can much more power be squeezed out of it?
Thanks! As with most N/A engines there isn't an easy way to get more power. In theory you could port and flow the heads and manifolds and possibly find some more aggressive cams, but it's a lot of money for not a lot more power. I have seen threads where people have turbo or supercharged the H6 engine, but again the cost is fairly significant. If i was going for power I'd go for a 2.0 turbo JDM.
shalmaneser said:
For the headlights try this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-TECH-Restored-Headlig...
Or something similar, any UV stabilised clear lacquer would do. The headlights as standard have a UV protective coating which eventually breaks down and needs to be sanded off to make the lights nice and clear. If you use this lacquer you put that UV protection back on.
Should last for years, and you can cut and polish it to make it super clear.
Interesting! I've ordered a couple of cans. I've got to do my clio as well so it'll be good to see how they last. Thanks for the tip. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-TECH-Restored-Headlig...
Or something similar, any UV stabilised clear lacquer would do. The headlights as standard have a UV protective coating which eventually breaks down and needs to be sanded off to make the lights nice and clear. If you use this lacquer you put that UV protection back on.
Should last for years, and you can cut and polish it to make it super clear.
So, a mixed bag of an update on the legacy. It's performing it's family duties very well, carrying two adults and two teenagers plus luggage all over the country with no problem. 30+ mpg on longer trips too.
After weeks of searching I found a good set of 18" subaru wheels in the correct off set and tyre size.
So these revolting things are off:
And these are on:
However I was getting a slight knock from the front, so I thought I'd have a poke around when the wheels were off.
The wishbone bushes look like they're done, the anti roll bar bushes have a visible gap and the struts look crusty and weeping oil. So I think a suspension overhaul is on the cards.
The rears don't look great either.
After weeks of searching I found a good set of 18" subaru wheels in the correct off set and tyre size.
So these revolting things are off:
And these are on:
However I was getting a slight knock from the front, so I thought I'd have a poke around when the wheels were off.
The wishbone bushes look like they're done, the anti roll bar bushes have a visible gap and the struts look crusty and weeping oil. So I think a suspension overhaul is on the cards.
The rears don't look great either.
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Monday 23 August 16:21
Stereo upgrade now complete. For now.
This has been a royal pain in the backside. The Ebay connector fitted the front perfectly, but the rears were different..fortunately I hadn't sent back the bits I thought were wrong as the connects2 adaptors that didn't fit the front did fit the rears. The Ebay MDF speaker adaptors fitted the front after a bit of work with a dremel, but the rears were a mile off. Fortunately the connects2 front adaptors fitted the rear.
And EVERY SINGLE SCREW supplied didn't fit, so I've had to do a lot of shed raiding.
If any other 4th gen legacy owner ever contemplates this let me know and I'll give you a parts list that will save a lot of hassle.
This has been a royal pain in the backside. The Ebay connector fitted the front perfectly, but the rears were different..fortunately I hadn't sent back the bits I thought were wrong as the connects2 adaptors that didn't fit the front did fit the rears. The Ebay MDF speaker adaptors fitted the front after a bit of work with a dremel, but the rears were a mile off. Fortunately the connects2 front adaptors fitted the rear.
And EVERY SINGLE SCREW supplied didn't fit, so I've had to do a lot of shed raiding.
If any other 4th gen legacy owner ever contemplates this let me know and I'll give you a parts list that will save a lot of hassle.
So, parts needed for the speakers.
For the rear: two connects2 CT55-SU01 speaker looms and two connects2 CT25SU03 speaker adaptors. You can reuse the screws from the OEM speakers. You'll also need 20mm self tapping screws to fit the speakers to the adaptors.
For the front you'll need two of these looms.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Door-Speaker-Cable-Wire...
And two of these mdf speaker adaptors
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MDF-Front-Door-165mm-6-...
Based on my experience, the top hole will need slotting and you'll need some longer screws to attach these to the car as the mdf is thicker than the OEM mounts. I used 6mm x 25 mm self tapping.
Then to attach the head unit to the car I used a connects2 CT10SU01. I didn't bother with an FM radio attena adapter.
For the rear: two connects2 CT55-SU01 speaker looms and two connects2 CT25SU03 speaker adaptors. You can reuse the screws from the OEM speakers. You'll also need 20mm self tapping screws to fit the speakers to the adaptors.
For the front you'll need two of these looms.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Door-Speaker-Cable-Wire...
And two of these mdf speaker adaptors
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MDF-Front-Door-165mm-6-...
Based on my experience, the top hole will need slotting and you'll need some longer screws to attach these to the car as the mdf is thicker than the OEM mounts. I used 6mm x 25 mm self tapping.
Then to attach the head unit to the car I used a connects2 CT10SU01. I didn't bother with an FM radio attena adapter.
Not sure if it's the same for an outback, but for the head unit the biggest issue is getting a double din slot.
These facias are decent quality and fairly cheap:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-DIN-Car-Radio-Stereo-...
But you will then need to transplant the HVAC controls, radio brackets and hazard warning lights across. In the gen 4 legacy there are two interiors. This facia only works with the post face lift models (2006 on). The difference is that the facelifts have 4 buttons on the heating controls and the older ones have 5.
The alternative is to buy a double din facia like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Legacy-Outback-D...
These facias are decent quality and fairly cheap:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-DIN-Car-Radio-Stereo-...
But you will then need to transplant the HVAC controls, radio brackets and hazard warning lights across. In the gen 4 legacy there are two interiors. This facia only works with the post face lift models (2006 on). The difference is that the facelifts have 4 buttons on the heating controls and the older ones have 5.
The alternative is to buy a double din facia like this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Legacy-Outback-D...
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