Birmingham ULEZ - Anyone waiting on appeal?
Discussion
For my sins, I decided after a business jolly at the NEC to stay in Birmingham itself rather than the depressing environs of the NEC and spend some money in the local establishments. This meant driving into town.
Now, I did notice the ULEZ signs on the way in with a cloud and a D on them but in the absence of a handy big toll board like the M6 or Dartford crossing, I didn’t really think too much of it and naively assumed it was probably for trucks and knackered old s
theaps.
Alas, it turns out that where ULEZ is concerned, a family bus (58 Plate Espace) is precisely the sort of knackered old stheap it is aimed at.
Although I may know the bhp and torque stats of the old girl, the quality of my emissions is not something I’ve previously worried about or committed to memory - Sadly, such a lack of foresight has landed me two penalty notices from Birmingham City Council, for failing to pay £8 each way on the night to the hotel and out on the morning.
I appealed on the not very hopeful grounds that expecting an out of towner to know to google ‘brumbreathes’ based on signs saying ‘check online’ to find the charges, etc wasn’t really cricket. For all they know my top internet search could have got me to a freeman of the land wibbler, it didn’t seem very well thought through.
I fully expect to be bent over and asked to pay £80 each time but it’s been months since appeal (September) and I’ve heard nothing at all.
Anybody else waiting for a response?
Now, I did notice the ULEZ signs on the way in with a cloud and a D on them but in the absence of a handy big toll board like the M6 or Dartford crossing, I didn’t really think too much of it and naively assumed it was probably for trucks and knackered old s
theaps.Alas, it turns out that where ULEZ is concerned, a family bus (58 Plate Espace) is precisely the sort of knackered old s
theap it is aimed at.Although I may know the bhp and torque stats of the old girl, the quality of my emissions is not something I’ve previously worried about or committed to memory - Sadly, such a lack of foresight has landed me two penalty notices from Birmingham City Council, for failing to pay £8 each way on the night to the hotel and out on the morning.
I appealed on the not very hopeful grounds that expecting an out of towner to know to google ‘brumbreathes’ based on signs saying ‘check online’ to find the charges, etc wasn’t really cricket. For all they know my top internet search could have got me to a freeman of the land wibbler, it didn’t seem very well thought through.
I fully expect to be bent over and asked to pay £80 each time but it’s been months since appeal (September) and I’ve heard nothing at all.
Anybody else waiting for a response?
Not waiting on appeal but as a resident (and might be useful for others) the general requirement on
emissions is that they need to meet Euro-4 for petrol and Euro-6 for diesel.
The charge period works on a 24-hour clock so anyone like yourself coming in during the evening
and then leaving after midnight or the next day will be charged twice. Once in and once out.
They were offering an amnesty for the first few weeks back in summer when the system went live to
give people a "chance to adjust". That really means so many people had been caught out due to
ste publicity it would have caused an uproar, but since then I don't know,
emissions is that they need to meet Euro-4 for petrol and Euro-6 for diesel.
The charge period works on a 24-hour clock so anyone like yourself coming in during the evening
and then leaving after midnight or the next day will be charged twice. Once in and once out.
They were offering an amnesty for the first few weeks back in summer when the system went live to
give people a "chance to adjust". That really means so many people had been caught out due to
s
te publicity it would have caused an uproar, but since then I don't know,whatmoretyres said:
Not quite the same page, but bare with me…
Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?
Because the M6 has junctions that get people on and off the motorway where they need/want to go. Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?
The Toll road is designed for people to get past Birmingham with the minimum of delay and doesn’t have the same connections.
megaphone said:
Why the hell can't they get some standardisation of signs? What the hell is the 'D' for? In London it's known as the ULEZ with different signage.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air-zoneThe letters apparently tell you which types of vehicle are covered, which I didn’t know till now.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air...
Without wishing to sound rude, you only had to go on the website and type in your registration to find out if you had to pay. We traveled through Birmingham over Christmas and were also unaware of the zone, although the check took three minutes.
Good luck with your appeal, regardless.
Good luck with your appeal, regardless.
Alex Z said:
Because the M6 has junctions that get people on and off the motorway where they need/want to go.
The Toll road is designed for people to get past Birmingham with the minimum of delay and doesn’t have the same connections.
That’s the point, pay to go into town, not to go through it. The expressway has almost no traffic on it so could remove a huge amount of pollution from right in the middle of Birmingham The Toll road is designed for people to get past Birmingham with the minimum of delay and doesn’t have the same connections.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yeah its a fair point hence why I deleted my reply.I skimmed it and misread it thinking it said "check online"..
Though I do think they should standardise any sign where a charge applies by making them red. Green usually signifies you are good to go. It's particularly confusing the first time you see the red Congestion Charge sign next to the green ulez sign in central London. Your eye is naturally drawn to the red sign only.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep 
Spent years and years similar on the M4 where the ulez signs started and it only really used to apply to trucks.l so I’d clearly tuned out the relevance.
No real excuse hence the expectation of paying, just seems a bit obtuse of them in terms of clarity when large swathes of drivers that don’t live in the m25 C zone bubble or have been exposed to the ‘extensive’ publicity in Birmingham would have no clue about it.
Granted, they can’t exactly list all vehicle emissions on a billboard like M6toll/Dartford but a clearer explanation of who those charges apply to would be nice.
How many times in life have you thought of something while driving (like stopping to buy bread) and then it’s totally left your head when you arrive at your destination and get sidetracked with other things like finding a car park, finding your hotel?
If I had a passenger I’d have got them to check en-route as we passed, however, flying solo, I was at the mercy of my patchy memory.
Just seems that if I were to design a signage system to ensure as many people as possible forgot about it by the time they were in a position to log on and pay for it and would therefore sleepwalk into a penalty, I’d do something like the above.
We shall see what the appeal brings and I’ll report back when I’ve paid the fine for being a knob
Alex Z said:
megaphone said:
Why the hell can't they get some standardisation of signs? What the hell is the 'D' for? In London it's known as the ULEZ with different signage.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air-zoneThe letters apparently tell you which types of vehicle are covered, which I didn’t know till now.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-a-clean-air...
megaphone said:
Why the hell can't they get some standardisation of signs? What the hell is the 'D' for? In London it's known as the ULEZ with different signage.
First they introduced it in London,But I could not speak out, as I didn't live in London.
Then they introduced it in Birmingham
But I could not speak out, as I don't live in Birmingham
[SNIPPED: other major cities]
Then they came to my village
And there was no one left to speak for me.
I appreciate it doesn't help the OP but a lot of European cities have ANPR cameras before the start of these zones. They can read national plates (and some from other countries - NL can read Belgian plates for example). This either gives a green thumbs up or a red cross. Quite a few cities have a park & ride facility at these locations for cars which aren't allowed in.
Given the proliferation of cameras in the UK I'm surprised this isn't implemented.
Given the proliferation of cameras in the UK I'm surprised this isn't implemented.
sunbeam alpine said:
I appreciate it doesn't help the OP but a lot of European cities have ANPR cameras before the start of these zones. They can read national plates (and some from other countries - NL can read Belgian plates for example). This either gives a green thumbs up or a red cross. Quite a few cities have a park & ride facility at these locations for cars which aren't allowed in.
Given the proliferation of cameras in the UK I'm surprised this isn't implemented.
They wouldn't get the income from fines. Given the proliferation of cameras in the UK I'm surprised this isn't implemented.
Handy enough reg checker to see if you're going to get your pants pulled down.
https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones
Given all the mayhem about to be unleashed in Manchester with the biggest CAZ (Catch All Zone) in the whole of Europe. Unfortunately it also prevents most/all access from Cheshire and Derbyshire in non compliant vehicles free access to the regional motorway network as they also apply charges on the last mile of the A555 and A538 out of Cheshire onto the motorway networks.
I thought I'd run a few regs thru the checker and our Del Boy is sound, free everywhere
https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones
Given all the mayhem about to be unleashed in Manchester with the biggest CAZ (Catch All Zone) in the whole of Europe. Unfortunately it also prevents most/all access from Cheshire and Derbyshire in non compliant vehicles free access to the regional motorway network as they also apply charges on the last mile of the A555 and A538 out of Cheshire onto the motorway networks.
I thought I'd run a few regs thru the checker and our Del Boy is sound, free everywhere
whatmoretyres said:
Not quite the same page, but bare with me…
Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?
I'd advocate this. I have a commute that uses the M6 through Birmingham, I'd much rather use the Toll and avoid the terrible road surfaces of the regular M6, however at £7 a pop or whatever it is this week, I'd rather sit in my Euro 3 diesel belching out emissions on the regular M6. It's fine for the one-off, but it soon adds up if you're commuting twice a day, everyday; about £70 per week just on the Toll road. If the Toll was free, I'd never go near Brum on the regular M6 again. Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?
Muddle238 said:
whatmoretyres said:
Not quite the same page, but bare with me…
Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?
I'd advocate this. I have a commute that uses the M6 through Birmingham, I'd much rather use the Toll and avoid the terrible road surfaces of the regular M6, however at £7 a pop or whatever it is this week, I'd rather sit in my Euro 3 diesel belching out emissions on the regular M6. It's fine for the one-off, but it soon adds up if you're commuting twice a day, everyday; about £70 per week just on the Toll road. If the Toll was free, I'd never go near Brum on the regular M6 again. Why don’t they make the expressway free now it’s publicly owned and instead charge vehicles to go through the middle of town on the ‘old’ m6? Shirley that would make a massive difference to air quality in Birmingham?
Buggered when road pricing comes in, but I'm sure they won't still be asking for both sets of charges ...... but I'm sure they'd want to.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well to be fair it isn't very clear - it says online but no address is given, it says charges apply - but no idea of what the charges are. It also doesn't indicate if you have to pay before you arrive, when you arrive or when you leave because all that is probably online but for someone such as me that would be hopeless because how would I be able to find an internet cafe to find out what is happening?These things work well for people who live there but for people who visit and don't know the local rules they are awful.
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