Renewable energy to save money? Sorry It doesn't work.
Discussion
I'm going to put this thread in the FAQ up there ^ so would appreciate your time proven real life examples
Please prove me wrong, give me your working examples of how you did make it work financially.
There is an endless stream of these 'Should I get solar/wind power to save money' type posts and I think this should be the place to go for them.
So, renewable energy, why is it 'a thing' these days?
It's because our Government wants to go green and cut down on harmful emissions from fossil fuels and they don't like nuclear energy. They want you to contribute to this. It is not about saving money, forget it. It's about spending money to save the planet.
You do it to be green and benefit future generations. On a 'closer to home' personal scale that's your kids and the people who take over your house after you. On a much wider scale; the rest of the planet will benefit.
You however want to save money which is why you're reading this. I'm sorry, but this unlikely to happen.
We live in the wrong climate here to make it successful for you financially, the majority of houses do not get a lot of what is needed all year round or at least, in Winter when it's need the most. Some do perhaps....
Makes power when the wind blows.
Doesn't make any power when there is no wind - go read up or log how many windy or non windy days you get near you.
They never put out the KWA they are quoted to do, some are worse than others.
Unsightly
They're noisy.
They vibrate.
They're expensive to buy.
Birds fly into them and get minced up.
They're expensive to run - need lowering down and servicing, bearings and parts replacing etc.
They will make you electric, but take all of that into consideration first and do the maths.
It's expensive to buy and have fitted, especially the batteries.
They make good power in Summer right when you need it the least.
The batteries and the panels have a limited life.
They're ugly, if you have a beautiful house they will ruin it.
Are currently being partly financed by a government grant making them at least, interesting.
Ugly
Noisy
The heat they create is quite mild. This means you'll need a very, very well insulated (modern) house and need to put in suitably (large) sized radiators or underfloor heating to make use of it.
They make the least heat when you need the most (in Winter).
I'm thinking servicing costs could be quite low due to the small and basic moving parts and some R-410A refrigerant gas and the units have quite a long life expectancy. What happens when they reach the end of their life i'm not sure, I mean, how much is a replacement going to cost if needed?
I think if you're near constantly, falling and running water this can be made to work, but the amount of people who are must be about .05% of the population so i'm not even going to go there, unless provoked by someone who thinks they can make it work.
So there you go, find a way around those issues and wave hello to cheap power.
If you can DIY then you can make it work and save money, if you can't and a grant is not available then forget it.
If a grant is available and you have an older traditional type house then the grant will not cover the cost of all the improvements you need to make to make use of heat source pumps.
If you want future generations to benefit then do it. Maybe your house will be lived in by your offspring who will thank you for it - unless something better comes along in the meantime!
Please prove me wrong, give me your working examples of how you did make it work financially.
There is an endless stream of these 'Should I get solar/wind power to save money' type posts and I think this should be the place to go for them.
So, renewable energy, why is it 'a thing' these days?
It's because our Government wants to go green and cut down on harmful emissions from fossil fuels and they don't like nuclear energy. They want you to contribute to this. It is not about saving money, forget it. It's about spending money to save the planet.
You do it to be green and benefit future generations. On a 'closer to home' personal scale that's your kids and the people who take over your house after you. On a much wider scale; the rest of the planet will benefit.
You however want to save money which is why you're reading this. I'm sorry, but this unlikely to happen.
We live in the wrong climate here to make it successful for you financially, the majority of houses do not get a lot of what is needed all year round or at least, in Winter when it's need the most. Some do perhaps....
Wind power
Makes power when the wind blows.
Doesn't make any power when there is no wind - go read up or log how many windy or non windy days you get near you.
They never put out the KWA they are quoted to do, some are worse than others.
Unsightly
They're noisy.
They vibrate.
They're expensive to buy.
Birds fly into them and get minced up.
They're expensive to run - need lowering down and servicing, bearings and parts replacing etc.
They will make you electric, but take all of that into consideration first and do the maths.
Solar
It's expensive to buy and have fitted, especially the batteries.
They make good power in Summer right when you need it the least.
The batteries and the panels have a limited life.
They're ugly, if you have a beautiful house they will ruin it.
Air or ground source heat pumps
Are currently being partly financed by a government grant making them at least, interesting.
Ugly
Noisy
The heat they create is quite mild. This means you'll need a very, very well insulated (modern) house and need to put in suitably (large) sized radiators or underfloor heating to make use of it.
They make the least heat when you need the most (in Winter).
I'm thinking servicing costs could be quite low due to the small and basic moving parts and some R-410A refrigerant gas and the units have quite a long life expectancy. What happens when they reach the end of their life i'm not sure, I mean, how much is a replacement going to cost if needed?
Hydro
I think if you're near constantly, falling and running water this can be made to work, but the amount of people who are must be about .05% of the population so i'm not even going to go there, unless provoked by someone who thinks they can make it work.
So there you go, find a way around those issues and wave hello to cheap power.
If you can DIY then you can make it work and save money, if you can't and a grant is not available then forget it.
If a grant is available and you have an older traditional type house then the grant will not cover the cost of all the improvements you need to make to make use of heat source pumps.
If you want future generations to benefit then do it. Maybe your house will be lived in by your offspring who will thank you for it - unless something better comes along in the meantime!
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 16th February 18:08
Solar is working for us.
I DIY installed some panels on an outbuilding. Panels bought 2nd hand at £50 each. 6 of them up at the moment. Inverter bought cheap £90.
Says its generated 996 kwh so far (about 2 yrs) I've bought one of those smart diverter things so instead of exporting it will run the immersion heater.
My parents do very well out of solar - they covered their roof when the high level of payment was available so they're coining it.
I DIY installed some panels on an outbuilding. Panels bought 2nd hand at £50 each. 6 of them up at the moment. Inverter bought cheap £90.
Says its generated 996 kwh so far (about 2 yrs) I've bought one of those smart diverter things so instead of exporting it will run the immersion heater.
My parents do very well out of solar - they covered their roof when the high level of payment was available so they're coining it.
Evoluzione said:
Air or ground source heat pumps
Are currently being partly financed by a government grant making them at least, interesting.
Ugly
Noisy
The heat they create is quite mild. This means you'll need a very, very well insulated (modern) house and need to put in suitably (large) sized radiators or underfloor heating to make use of it.
They make the least heat when you need the most (in Winter).
I'm thinking servicing costs could be quite low due to the small and basic moving parts and some R-410A refrigerant gas, but don't quote me on that.
Noisy - modern inverter units don't make much noise.
"The heat they create is quite mild". No, the greater the temperature difference to pump through, the lower the efficiency. Hence big radiators run at lower temperatures meaning lower running costs - which is why underfloor is so good with a heat pump. Maximum water temperature is 35.
If a heat pump system has ferrous materials it will need water treatment every couple of years. Get rid of ferrous, and there is minimal maintenance.
A hot water heat pump itself does not need servicing, only cleaning.
Government want us to reduce fuel consumption and good insulation has become a legal requirement on new builds.
If you want to reduce your energy consumption and bills and are unfortunate enough to have a home that is listed, and you want to fit double glazing you can f
k off because it won't look quite so pretty to the people who don't live in it.
If you want to reduce your energy consumption and bills and are unfortunate enough to have a home that is listed, and you want to fit double glazing you can f
k off because it won't look quite so pretty to the people who don't live in it.I had solar panels fitted 8 years ago, and they paid back over 7.
There’s another 12 years of FIT payments to go, and until the recent price rises my net energy bill was zero.
The maths on newer battery backed systems without FITs are less clear, but probably back to being worthwhile if prices stay high.
There’s another 12 years of FIT payments to go, and until the recent price rises my net energy bill was zero.
The maths on newer battery backed systems without FITs are less clear, but probably back to being worthwhile if prices stay high.
TooLateForAName said:
Solar is working for us.
I DIY installed some panels on an outbuilding. Panels bought 2nd hand at £50 each. 6 of them up at the moment. Inverter bought cheap £90.
Says its generated 996 kwh so far (about 2 yrs)
Thats 10 years return on investment...sorry but that's not great. I DIY installed some panels on an outbuilding. Panels bought 2nd hand at £50 each. 6 of them up at the moment. Inverter bought cheap £90.
Says its generated 996 kwh so far (about 2 yrs)
Most sure way is to reduce consumption by insulating and draught proofing, switching off things you are not using.
Only when you have done the above should you consider it.
I have solar and virtually no electricity bills if I include FIT but going forward so long as you can use the energy i.e charging an ev or heating domestic hot water then the economics still stack up and any return is effectively tax free too.
Only when you have done the above should you consider it.
I have solar and virtually no electricity bills if I include FIT but going forward so long as you can use the energy i.e charging an ev or heating domestic hot water then the economics still stack up and any return is effectively tax free too.
Evoluzione said:
I'm going to put this in the FAQ up there ^ so would appreciate your time proven real life examples
Is that what your opening gambit is based on? It doesn't sound like it - it reads more that you've got an axe to grind, and a political one at that? No offence intended but you don't sound anywhere near knowledgeable enough on the subject to be writing answers to a FAQ on it.Edited by MJNewton on Saturday 5th February 08:24
I have had solar and it paid for itself in 7 years like the above poster. Are they ugly? I am not sure. Most people who say they are ugly are the ones who can't afford to fit them. 90% of houses are ugly so slapping on a few panels will not make any difference to its curb appeal. They may not look good on a thatched cottage, but elsewhere they are fine. Plus i can honestly say I only look at my roof occasionally to check its still there, very rarely do I sit staring at it's beauty. Oh and thanks for paying for my electricity for the last few years.
ARHarh said:
I have had solar and it paid for itself in 7 years like the above poster. Are they ugly? I am not sure. Most people who say they are ugly are the ones who can't afford to fit them. 90% of houses are ugly so slapping on a few panels will not make any difference to its curb appeal. They may not look good on a thatched cottage, but elsewhere they are fine. Plus i can honestly say I only look at my roof occasionally to check its still there, very rarely do I sit staring at it's beauty. Oh and thanks for paying for my electricity for the last few years.
Was/is your FIT on the old high rate or one of the new (a lot lower) rates? as this makes a huge difference to payback singlecoil said:
Government want us to reduce fuel consumption and good insulation has become a legal requirement on new builds.
If you want to reduce your energy consumption and bills and are unfortunate enough to have a home that is listed, and you want to fit double glazing you can fk off because it won't look quite so pretty to the people who don't live in it.
Quite a few people have used these companies to get LBC and had double glazing installed. I’ll be getting a quote at some point this year just to see how expensive it’ll be for us, though obviously there’s no guarantee that ours would be approved there is a decent chance. If you want to reduce your energy consumption and bills and are unfortunate enough to have a home that is listed, and you want to fit double glazing you can f
k off because it won't look quite so pretty to the people who don't live in it.https://www.timberwindows.com/
https://www.timbawood.co.uk/our-windows/heritage-w...
MJNewton said:
Evoluzione said:
I'm going to put this in the FAQ up there ^ so would appreciate your time proven real life examples
Is that what your opening gambit is based on? It doesn't sound like it - it reads more that you've got an axe to grind, and a political one at that? No offence intended but you don't sound anywhere near knowledgeable enough on the subject to be writing answers to a FAQ on it.Edited by MJNewton on Saturday 5th February 08:24
Evoluzione said:
I've invited you provide us with a real life example to prove me wrong yet you and most others can't seem to manage it.
I can't because I don't have real life examples to give you. I can spot a heavily biased view though, which is fine for an opinion but not as a FAQ where one might expect the answers to represent some level of concensus rather than one individual's ill-informed view. paddy1970 said:
TooLateForAName said:
Solar is working for us.
I DIY installed some panels on an outbuilding. Panels bought 2nd hand at £50 each. 6 of them up at the moment. Inverter bought cheap £90.
Says its generated 996 kwh so far (about 2 yrs)
Thats 10 years return on investment...sorry but that's not great. I DIY installed some panels on an outbuilding. Panels bought 2nd hand at £50 each. 6 of them up at the moment. Inverter bought cheap £90.
Says its generated 996 kwh so far (about 2 yrs)
There are cases where they make financial sense, but domestic renewables do seem of dubious value at the moment. However, if electricity and gas prices continue to rise it will become a lot more viable.
It may well be that we never see domestic electricity prices below 30p/kwh again.
ETA: I think GSHP makes sense if you're already having major ground-works done at the time anyway. If I was building a new house now I'd definitely install ground source heat pumps.
It may well be that we never see domestic electricity prices below 30p/kwh again.
ETA: I think GSHP makes sense if you're already having major ground-works done at the time anyway. If I was building a new house now I'd definitely install ground source heat pumps.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 5th February 10:37
MJNewton said:
Evoluzione said:
I've invited you provide us with a real life example to prove me wrong yet you and most others can't seem to manage it.
I can't because I don't have real life examples to give you. I can spot a heavily biased view though, which is fine for an opinion but not as a FAQ where one might expect the answers to represent some level of concensus rather than one individual's ill-informed view. Alex Z said:
I had solar panels fitted 8 years ago, and they paid back over 7.
There’s another 12 years of FIT payments to go, and until the recent price rises my net energy bill was zero.
The maths on newer battery backed systems without FITs are less clear, but probably back to being worthwhile if prices stay high.
Did you get a grant for that?There’s another 12 years of FIT payments to go, and until the recent price rises my net energy bill was zero.
The maths on newer battery backed systems without FITs are less clear, but probably back to being worthwhile if prices stay high.
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