1988 VW Caddy with McLaren 650S engine
Discussion
McL.VW said:
Hi all,
New to the forum here. Someone suggested I start a topic about this car over on this site!
My brother and I have been slowly working on a project for the past couple years, built almost entirely from outrageous ebay purchases.
We've built a few custom cars in that past but both fancied something turbo and mid engine so we started with a mk1 VW Caddy and then started the hunt for something unusual to put in the back.
We came across a badly fire damaged M838T from a 2015 650S and against our better judgement figured it was worth a go...
It required a lot of new parts (it had a lot of melted plastic on it) but many months of ebay searches and asking around some motorsport contacts we had a pretty good looking engine again.
We still didn't have any kind of wiring or engine management but after lots of research I ended up going with Haltech - their Nexus R5 unit suits us really well - dual DBW control and full PDM for engine and chassis. We've gone with their IC7 display and 15-button CAN keypad for all the display and control needs. They folks at Haltech are absolutely brilliant with support too.
We initially thought we could use an Audi A4 transaxle but when we considered the ~700hp we'll be putting out of the motor we started looking for more substantial options.
eBay to the rescue again - and another fire damaged car being broken for parts. This time an R8, the 6-speed manual from an early V8 model. The same transaxle from the Gallardo. Only minor damage from the fire (couple sensors melted and the oil cooler pipes - nothing too serious).
We sourced a clutch and flywheel from a Gallardo (weird trigger tooth pattern which was a bit of a headache later on) and designed a bellhousing adapter, and matching flywheel adapter to bolt it together.
We now had an engine and box mated and looked pretty good!
Next was what we do for mounting it, and the rear suspension.
One more donor sportscar was needed.... a 996. We used the rear suspension carriers and narrowed them slightly (not much was possible when the R8 transaxle is sat between them).
My brother then set about designing and building a 'subframe' to which it all mounts.
We needed to strengthen the chassis too and decided to build a cage. We've never built one before but bought a mandrel bender and a load of CDS tube and set about having a go. End result isn't too bad although there are bits we might do slightly different if we were to do it again. We wanted to keep the cage to within the confines of the outline of the bodyline at the rear - so no diagonal up from rear suspension, which is obviously sub optimal as far as cage design but we've taken it as high as we can and hopefully triangulated it sufficiently to give it enough strength. We added tubes through the sills too so it's almost a 'semi-spaceframe' built into the chassis.
The front end is where we're mounting the radiators, battery and fuel system (tank and pumps). For now the suspension is still mk1 Golf - albeit with Cupra discs and Porsche calipers but we think we might ultimately swap the front end out for mk4 platform parts which bring a few advantages (wider track, bigger brake options, power steering and relocated rack to allow pedals in cockpit to be extended further forwards).
We actually fired it up back in August (with the wiring harness roughed out, no coolant, no exhaust and no turbo plumbing!) just to prove out that it would actually work. The wiring was then removed and properly terminated and sleeved and is out of the car while we continue with the fabrication stuff
All my pictures are on my phone so will try and upload them to here somehow but I've actually just started an Instagram account which has a few pics on for now.
A few people have suggested doing some YouTube videos following the progress which I like the idea of trying, but I'm not much good in front of a camera. Or behind a camera. Or anywhere near a camera really... so might need a bit of practice first.
Thanks all
That's gotta be one of the strongest first posts in PH history! New to the forum here. Someone suggested I start a topic about this car over on this site!
My brother and I have been slowly working on a project for the past couple years, built almost entirely from outrageous ebay purchases.
We've built a few custom cars in that past but both fancied something turbo and mid engine so we started with a mk1 VW Caddy and then started the hunt for something unusual to put in the back.
We came across a badly fire damaged M838T from a 2015 650S and against our better judgement figured it was worth a go...
It required a lot of new parts (it had a lot of melted plastic on it) but many months of ebay searches and asking around some motorsport contacts we had a pretty good looking engine again.
We still didn't have any kind of wiring or engine management but after lots of research I ended up going with Haltech - their Nexus R5 unit suits us really well - dual DBW control and full PDM for engine and chassis. We've gone with their IC7 display and 15-button CAN keypad for all the display and control needs. They folks at Haltech are absolutely brilliant with support too.
We initially thought we could use an Audi A4 transaxle but when we considered the ~700hp we'll be putting out of the motor we started looking for more substantial options.
eBay to the rescue again - and another fire damaged car being broken for parts. This time an R8, the 6-speed manual from an early V8 model. The same transaxle from the Gallardo. Only minor damage from the fire (couple sensors melted and the oil cooler pipes - nothing too serious).
We sourced a clutch and flywheel from a Gallardo (weird trigger tooth pattern which was a bit of a headache later on) and designed a bellhousing adapter, and matching flywheel adapter to bolt it together.
We now had an engine and box mated and looked pretty good!
Next was what we do for mounting it, and the rear suspension.
One more donor sportscar was needed.... a 996. We used the rear suspension carriers and narrowed them slightly (not much was possible when the R8 transaxle is sat between them).
My brother then set about designing and building a 'subframe' to which it all mounts.
We needed to strengthen the chassis too and decided to build a cage. We've never built one before but bought a mandrel bender and a load of CDS tube and set about having a go. End result isn't too bad although there are bits we might do slightly different if we were to do it again. We wanted to keep the cage to within the confines of the outline of the bodyline at the rear - so no diagonal up from rear suspension, which is obviously sub optimal as far as cage design but we've taken it as high as we can and hopefully triangulated it sufficiently to give it enough strength. We added tubes through the sills too so it's almost a 'semi-spaceframe' built into the chassis.
The front end is where we're mounting the radiators, battery and fuel system (tank and pumps). For now the suspension is still mk1 Golf - albeit with Cupra discs and Porsche calipers but we think we might ultimately swap the front end out for mk4 platform parts which bring a few advantages (wider track, bigger brake options, power steering and relocated rack to allow pedals in cockpit to be extended further forwards).
We actually fired it up back in August (with the wiring harness roughed out, no coolant, no exhaust and no turbo plumbing!) just to prove out that it would actually work. The wiring was then removed and properly terminated and sleeved and is out of the car while we continue with the fabrication stuff
All my pictures are on my phone so will try and upload them to here somehow but I've actually just started an Instagram account which has a few pics on for now.
A few people have suggested doing some YouTube videos following the progress which I like the idea of trying, but I'm not much good in front of a camera. Or behind a camera. Or anywhere near a camera really... so might need a bit of practice first.
Thanks all
Casually dropping a Mclaren engine mated to a lamborghini gearbox in an old VW Caddy. As you do.
I'm in for the follow.
Thanks for the enthusiasm, all!
I work in motorsport so am away a lot of the time but my brother ticks along with physical progress and when I’m not on hand to work on it physically I do a lot of planning and drawing from wherever I might be in the world at the time.
I’ve gone back through some pics to find a couple which show what we’ve done so far, although the timeline might be slightly out of order hopefully it’s clear.
Here’s an early photo of the subframe taking shape. The 996 carriers bolted up and one corner hanging on.
This me one is a bit more recent. Some more triangulation and gusseting of the frame, and now it’s in place in the car for a trial fit. Oil tank also roughed into place (donor McLaren, eBay again…)
The idea (!) is that the engine and box can lift out of the car, with the frame still in situ, but also that the complete rear end can be dropped out from underneath the body. Given the space we’re working in and the fact the car is on a rotisserie we opted for the first install to be everything going in together from underneath. Definitely a two man job and not the work of 5 mins but it works! A two post lift would make the job a whole lot easier. If I can upgrade to a new workshop that will be top of my list.
I can’t find a good pic of the engine mounts but we’ve used some 1-series adjustable control arms as dogbone mounts, which suit pretty nicely and have bonus of allowing small engine position adjustment while we continue to design and build. We may replace with a custom fixed length alternative when it’s all proven out. Gearbox mounts are standard audi/lambo.
The Nexus ECU will sit in kind of the ‘centre console’ location, it has some indicator leds on it for PDM status plus it’s kinda cool looking. I got it with a universal harness and 5 metres of tails on it. This is replacing the entirety of the wiring in the car. Took a lot of hours to map it all out and dress it into place. (Also the car very clearly used to be blue!)
I fired it up when the wiring was in place. To make sure it all worked before committing to the routing etc. First attempt was without fuel and just a little bit of brake cleaner in the throttle bodies to check we had spark (I can confirm we DID have ignition)
Up the front end (boring end) we’ve kept it mk1 golf for now - to speed up time to get it driving and prove out the rear engine engineering first. We plan to swap this out down the line but until then we’ve built a cross brace for lower arms and used that to integrate the radiator and fuel tank mounts. Small radiator handles the charge coolers and hopefully the big one is enough to keep engine temps under control.
Napkin sketches were about as far as the design stage went with these parts but pretty pleased with result. (Oh please disregard the choice of fasteners everywhere - once everything is built we’ll go back around and replace with the appropriate length and strength! And also please forgive some of my TIG welds. We’ve been doing a bit of ‘teach yourselves’ and trying it out on some of the non critical parts. The important bits I’m having a good friend (and professional motorsport fabricator) weld up for me)
That might be a bit too much for one post now!
I work in motorsport so am away a lot of the time but my brother ticks along with physical progress and when I’m not on hand to work on it physically I do a lot of planning and drawing from wherever I might be in the world at the time.
I’ve gone back through some pics to find a couple which show what we’ve done so far, although the timeline might be slightly out of order hopefully it’s clear.
Here’s an early photo of the subframe taking shape. The 996 carriers bolted up and one corner hanging on.
This me one is a bit more recent. Some more triangulation and gusseting of the frame, and now it’s in place in the car for a trial fit. Oil tank also roughed into place (donor McLaren, eBay again…)
The idea (!) is that the engine and box can lift out of the car, with the frame still in situ, but also that the complete rear end can be dropped out from underneath the body. Given the space we’re working in and the fact the car is on a rotisserie we opted for the first install to be everything going in together from underneath. Definitely a two man job and not the work of 5 mins but it works! A two post lift would make the job a whole lot easier. If I can upgrade to a new workshop that will be top of my list.
I can’t find a good pic of the engine mounts but we’ve used some 1-series adjustable control arms as dogbone mounts, which suit pretty nicely and have bonus of allowing small engine position adjustment while we continue to design and build. We may replace with a custom fixed length alternative when it’s all proven out. Gearbox mounts are standard audi/lambo.
The Nexus ECU will sit in kind of the ‘centre console’ location, it has some indicator leds on it for PDM status plus it’s kinda cool looking. I got it with a universal harness and 5 metres of tails on it. This is replacing the entirety of the wiring in the car. Took a lot of hours to map it all out and dress it into place. (Also the car very clearly used to be blue!)
I fired it up when the wiring was in place. To make sure it all worked before committing to the routing etc. First attempt was without fuel and just a little bit of brake cleaner in the throttle bodies to check we had spark (I can confirm we DID have ignition)
Up the front end (boring end) we’ve kept it mk1 golf for now - to speed up time to get it driving and prove out the rear engine engineering first. We plan to swap this out down the line but until then we’ve built a cross brace for lower arms and used that to integrate the radiator and fuel tank mounts. Small radiator handles the charge coolers and hopefully the big one is enough to keep engine temps under control.
Napkin sketches were about as far as the design stage went with these parts but pretty pleased with result. (Oh please disregard the choice of fasteners everywhere - once everything is built we’ll go back around and replace with the appropriate length and strength! And also please forgive some of my TIG welds. We’ve been doing a bit of ‘teach yourselves’ and trying it out on some of the non critical parts. The important bits I’m having a good friend (and professional motorsport fabricator) weld up for me)
That might be a bit too much for one post now!
Don1 said:
Amazing. But why a Caddy? And is that a silver Leon outside?
Umm. Good question.It all fits tidily in the back without cutting into the cabin area, and they were never fast in any original form. I guess it’s just a crazy combination, and should be ‘mostly’ hideable with a tonneau cover (For when parked up).
My brother and I have owned various watercooled vws over the years so have a bit of a soft spot for them.
It’s actually an early S3 (a friend’s hillclimb car).
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff