Brundle on Sato
Discussion
Like when he was gleefully gibbering on about Raikonnen's radio commentary at the end by talking all over it. It was obviously specially arranged as the reception was good and the pit's made a point to Kimi about being "on air" so he didn't get too excited......yeah right..Kimi get excited..!! .fat chance there then.
D-Angle said:Brundle said that neither Bernie nor Tilke had ever driven an F1 car, implying a question of whether one can design a "proper" circuit for Formula One without having driven one of those cars.
Didn't he blurt out something about Bernie having never driven an F1 car?
That would be a fair comment if these circuits were only used for F1. The thing is, the overwhleming majority of racing that is done on any of these circuits is not Formula One, it's myriad "lesser" formulae ("lesser" in the sense of less pretentious, less self-important, less precious, less profligate and...less boring).
Bernie raced bikes for a number of years and racing has been his life. Tilke races currently in the VLN and he is a very dab hand at it too.
Together they are doubtless capable of designing a race track, one of whose activities is F1.
It's amazing that Tilke races on the finest circuit in the world regularly in VLN (and, as you say Flemke, is very good), yet manages to design the blandest circuits in the world. At least this Turkish one has some gradients, which makes a change. The first corner reminds me a little of Brazil, the way the track falls away as it turns left/right.
Another classic from Allen during M. Schumacher's lap: "Let's see what the maestro can do", before MS spun about three corners later...
Another classic from Allen during M. Schumacher's lap: "Let's see what the maestro can do", before MS spun about three corners later...
I think overall though the actual track (as in the strip of tarmac) is quite good. What makes all of Tilke's circuits so bland is the setting - if you look at the great circuits they all have drama in their setting as well as in the corners. Monaco (street circuit), Spa (it used to run past people's doorsteps! The microclimates and the forests help too), Old Nurburgring (the scenery/setting), Brands Hatch (that perfect natural amphitheatre), Monza (the parkland... the history)... Interlagos (decaying but still great) I'd even put Albert Park in this category too, despite the circuit not being that great.
The problem with the tilke tracks is that instead of a forest, or people's doorsteps, or a city, or an historic crumbling oval you just have acres of gravel. In Turkey there is that absolutely hideous building on the start finish straight too.
He needs to find some dramatic setting and then build a track around it, not find a marsh, drain it and then try to build a billiard table smooth track. The reason all those drivers messed up Turn 8 (I think, the quadruple apex fast one) is because of the bumps through it. Tracks need imperfections, bumps, foibles, peculiarities and character... far more than they need big swishy air conditioned garages.
The problem with the tilke tracks is that instead of a forest, or people's doorsteps, or a city, or an historic crumbling oval you just have acres of gravel. In Turkey there is that absolutely hideous building on the start finish straight too.
He needs to find some dramatic setting and then build a track around it, not find a marsh, drain it and then try to build a billiard table smooth track. The reason all those drivers messed up Turn 8 (I think, the quadruple apex fast one) is because of the bumps through it. Tracks need imperfections, bumps, foibles, peculiarities and character... far more than they need big swishy air conditioned garages.
flemke said:
The thing is, the overwhleming majority of racing that is done on any of these circuits is not Formula One, it's myriad "lesser" formulae ("lesser" in the sense of less pretentious, less self-important, less precious, less profligate and...less boring).
Don't let's kid ourselves. The only reason any of these new circuits has been built is to gain the lucre and prestige that comes with an F1 race. The fact that very few race make a profit for their organisers seems irrelevant - especially if backed by government - the tourist dollars can be very handily redistributed to show a good return on the investment.
The exception of course is Dubai. The answer there? If Bernie won't play ball, launch your own race series
Finally, IIRC the Turkish government didn't fully fund the circuit's development
Rubystone,
You are certainly right, but I'm not sure how that relates to Brundle's implying that people with Super-Licences ought to be involved in circuit design or to my comment that on even the most rarefied circuits F1 usage is a minor part of total racing usage.
Modern mega-circuits wouldn't be built without the possibility of an F1 show, and F1 requires a track to be at a certain standard, but so many tracks meet that standard that one doubts how much the particulars of a given bend matter.
It wasn't clear to me, at least, why Brundle was whinging, which is something that he so seldom does. Did you think that he was suggesting that that bend was unsafe, uninteresting, or what?
It seemed more than sufficiently interesting, with that massive runoff area it must be safe, and not everyone went off, so the ones that did either made an error or their cars were set up wrongly (note Button's comment about clearance).
It did appear that through that bend most all the cars were generating clouds of brownish dust, which was the same colour as the planks that they carry underneath.
You are certainly right, but I'm not sure how that relates to Brundle's implying that people with Super-Licences ought to be involved in circuit design or to my comment that on even the most rarefied circuits F1 usage is a minor part of total racing usage.
Modern mega-circuits wouldn't be built without the possibility of an F1 show, and F1 requires a track to be at a certain standard, but so many tracks meet that standard that one doubts how much the particulars of a given bend matter.
It wasn't clear to me, at least, why Brundle was whinging, which is something that he so seldom does. Did you think that he was suggesting that that bend was unsafe, uninteresting, or what?
It seemed more than sufficiently interesting, with that massive runoff area it must be safe, and not everyone went off, so the ones that did either made an error or their cars were set up wrongly (note Button's comment about clearance).
It did appear that through that bend most all the cars were generating clouds of brownish dust, which was the same colour as the planks that they carry underneath.
Sorry Flemke - I didn't see the qualifying - my comments related purely to the fact that aside from Dubai (and I think I'm right here) the only new racetracks have all been built on the back of contracts with FOM to run GPs. Having said that, Rockingham wasn't built with that in mind was it?...but how long do you give it before it's bulldozed for housing?
So I clearly can't offer any comment on what Brundle said - shame I missed it -sounds interesting.
So I clearly can't offer any comment on what Brundle said - shame I missed it -sounds interesting.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff