Sold Car / Money Back / Complex One?

[PistonTim]

I sold my 2013 BMW X1 on Saturday, listed for £5,250 on FB Marketplace, 10 years old 132,000 miles N47, no issues I have been aware of since I bought it last April with 108,000 on the clock. Advert made no claims about condition or 'runs well' but it did anyway and has been my daily driver but I'm doing a lot of miles now and have a car through work.

Guy turns up, had a good look round and did a short test drive, I offered a longer one but he declined.

Paid cash £4,200 and drove it at away. He says he bought it for his girlfriend and V5 in her name not his.

He then rings me Sunday night that the engine warning light has come on, I tell him it's never done that before.

He then sends me another photo of the warning light yesterday morning, the says he wants to return the car as its 'not as described', that I'm not cooperating, much backwards and forwards and return is agreed. He says it's an EGR or DPF fault, and the dealer has told him the car has lots of faults.

I said return it for a refund, he then said later it would cost too much money to take it back so I said no problem, I'll come and collect it, he then says the garage (dealer) shuts at 6:30.

I call the dealer where he said it was, no record of the car and him (it's the only dealer in the area).

He's also called the garage who replaced the exhaust flexi many months ago trying to tell them they replaced the DPF when they didn't.

I've just had another message to say as I wont cooperate with the cost of repairs he is going to file for small claims court.

NOW I KNOW I've been a soft touch, but I don't like conflict (autistic nature) and I thought you know, sold as seen, but I'm not a bad person I just want to do what's right and sold the car in good faith in full working order.

I also found the service book so in theory I could get more money for reselling it later on.

So clearly his game is to try and get cash for undisclosed repairs from me through means of threatening behaviour, I can hold my own in court and have my offer to collect and refund in writing too.

My biggest concern is he turns up, obviously knows where I live, large bloke (builder type) and he knows what car I drive now etc.

Is there anything else I need to do or just wait and see if the paperwork materialises?

Edited by PistonTim on Tuesday 8th August 10:39

[Wacky Racer]

Only one word. Cazoo.

Cue next load of replies Ignore, Block number etc.

Good luck.

[PistonTim]

Wacky Racer said:

Only one word. Cazoo.

Cue next load of replies Ignore, Block number etc.

Good luck.

Thanks, I have no issue with court its more the threatening, harassment etc but I suppose I just need to hear if from people who will agree (I hope) I'm in the right here.

[charltjr]

Just ignore him. He won’t turn up, it’s standard operating procedure for a minority of morons these days.

If paperwork does arrive then any judge will toss it out based on things being as you described.

[PistonTim]

charltjr said:

Just ignore him. He won’t turn up, it’s standard operating procedure for a minority of morons these days.

If paperwork does arrive then any judge will toss it out based on things being as you described.

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

[charltjr]

PistonTim said:

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

They are just trying it on. You properly called their bluff by offering to take the car back, the fact that they are ignoring that and pressing for money off means they are scammers or morons or both.

Dealing with people like that is like the old saying about playing chess against a pigeon - it doesn’t matter what you do, they’ll knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and then fly off.

[PistonTim]

charltjr said:

PistonTim said:

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

They are just trying it on. You properly called their bluff by offering to take the car back, the fact that they are ignoring that and pressing for money off means they are scammers or morons or both.

Dealing with people like that is like the old saying about playing chess against a pigeon - it doesn’t matter what you do, they’ll knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and then fly off.

Can't really argue with offering a full refund AND collecting the car myself can you?

[Hammersia]

PistonTim said:

charltjr said:

Just ignore him. He won’t turn up, it’s standard operating procedure for a minority of morons these days.

If paperwork does arrive then any judge will toss it out based on things being as you described.

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

Technically if he said it over the phone then that would be slander, not libel.

[evvo602]

We had a similar experience a couple of years ago with a BMW 1 series, owned by us from new, guy buys it then rings up on way home to say it had gone on to limp mode, he takes it to BMW garage next morning need full exhaust system apparently, I rang the garage up he hadnt taken the car to the garage at all, I told him if he wanted his money back to bring the car back. Or I would arrange collection, this was followed by a load of threats of what he was going to do non of which materialised.

My advice is block his number & ignore anything else from him he will so find some other poor sod to try and rip off.

[PistonTim]

Hammersia said:

PistonTim said:

charltjr said:

Just ignore him. He won’t turn up, it’s standard operating procedure for a minority of morons these days.

If paperwork does arrive then any judge will toss it out based on things being as you described.

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

Technically if he said it over the phone then that would be slander, not libel.

Thanks, yes agree was just heat of moment on phone, ridiculous claim though.

[PistonTim]

evvo602 said:

We had a similar experience a couple of years ago with a BMW 1 series, owned by us from new, guy buys it then rings up on way home to say it had gone on to limp mode, he takes it to BMW garage next morning need full exhaust system apparently, I rang the garage up he hadnt taken the car to the garage at all, I told him if he wanted his money back to bring the car back. Or I would arrange collection, this was followed by a load of threats of what he was going to do non of which materialised.

My advice is block his number & ignore anything else from him he will so find some other poor sod to try and rip off.

Sounds almost identical!

[coldel]

Its pretty scary I can imagine if you are not a powerfully built company director and you have an apparent nutter on your case. You have no idea what they will do, and I totally appreciate that. If it is getting to a point of harassment/threats over and above simply discussing the sale of a car then file a report with the police, you can do this online. They wont do anything, but at least you have a record of it should it escalate.

In terms of the car sale itself, the CRA does give limited protection to private buyers, if you say certain things to describe the car and these a provable to be false then a judge can find against you. Based on what you said above, I cannot see any reasonable way you have misdescribed the car unless it for things other than the engine light (as clearly any car can have this come on) - if you said specifically it has had work done (and hasnt) or that something runs perfectly (and it doesn't ) then you should be ok.

[Pelicula]

RECEIPT.

Received from - Mr. SImon Jones
The sum of £10000 via Bank Transfer
As full payment for
BMW X5 CX67 GHN
Odometer 65432
Which is SOLD AS SEEN
With no warranty given, implied or otherwise
Dated 15-6-23
Time 17:10
Signed (seller) -
Signed (buyer) -

Print two copies of the above and both sign
Print two copies of Bank Transfer - both sign.

Over a cup of tea.
Firm handshake.
Wave it down the road.

[Muzzer79]

PistonTim said:

says he wants to return the car as its 'not as described', that I'm not cooperating, much backwards and forwards and return is agreed. He says it's an EGR or DPF fault, and the dealer has told him the car has lots of faults.

I said return it for a refund, he then said later it would cost too much money to take it back so I said no problem, I'll come and collect it, he then says the garage (dealer) shuts at 6:30.

I call the dealer where he said it was, no record of the car and him (it's the only dealer in the area).

This tells you all you need to know.

He's a scammer, just trying to get some money back off you.

Ignore him - block his number on your phone. If he turns up at your house (highly unlikely) tell him to go away and call the police if he doesn't.

[PistonTim]

This was the wording from the ad:

2013 BMW X1 · Suv · Driven 132,000 kilometres

2.0D 184bhp
8 Speed Auto
Mineral grey metallic paint
Professional tints to rear
18” alloy wheels
Xenon headlights - adaptive and automatic
Oyster leather interior
Dark copper trim
Leather sports steering wheel with paddle shift
Heated front seats
BMW Professional navigation (2022 maps update)
DAB
Bluetooth phone connection
Dimming mirrors
Reversing camera and sensors
Front parking sensors
Auto wipers

2 owners including myself
MOT December 2023
Service due December 2024 or in 5,000 miles

Recently had matching tyres all round, new brake discs and pads, battery, exhaust flexi.

Timing chain checked December 2022 and in good condition.

Small mark to rear corner as shown where I nudged a gate post despite the sensors and camera!

Two keys.

I’ve had it serviced once in my ownership (and receipts for tyres and brakes) but I cannot find the service book.

[coldel]

PistonTim said:

This was the wording from the ad:

2013 BMW X1 · Suv · Driven 132,000 kilometres

2.0D 184bhp
8 Speed Auto
Mineral grey metallic paint
Professional tints to rear
18” alloy wheels
Xenon headlights - adaptive and automatic
Oyster leather interior
Dark copper trim
Leather sports steering wheel with paddle shift
Heated front seats
BMW Professional navigation (2022 maps update)
DAB
Bluetooth phone connection
Dimming mirrors
Reversing camera and sensors
Front parking sensors
Auto wipers

2 owners including myself
MOT December 2023
Service due December 2024 or in 5,000 miles

Recently had matching tyres all round, new brake discs and pads, battery, exhaust flexi.

Timing chain checked December 2022 and in good condition.

Small mark to rear corner as shown where I nudged a gate post despite the sensors and camera!

Two keys.

I’ve had it serviced once in my ownership (and receipts for tyres and brakes) but I cannot find the service book.

The CRA would also cover any communication you had with the buyer, any messages/texts/emails where he has asked questions and you answered.

[Muzzer79]

If the buyer was serious about thinking the car was a dud and he'd been ripped off, he'd have accepted the OPs offer of a refund and collecting the car himself.

The fact that he hasn't tells us everything - his next move will be to offer that the OP gives him £200/£500/£1000 back to 'fix the problems' and make good instead of a refund.

Scammer.

[Tyrell Corp]

PistonTim said:

Thanks, he was even claiming over the phone that I could have bought a code reader and reset the code before I sold it to him. I said that was a libel statement.

Knowing this, why did he not do a more thorough test drive and inspection? a savvy buyer might expect this and even bought their own code reader.

You agreed to over 20% off asking already, I suspect you are too 'nice' and he is trying it on. Any court claim will involve actual invoices and evidence of 'repairs'. Refusing your offer of a refund says it all.

You won't see him again . Now put all that service history right in the bin.




People do try their luck, I remember selling an old Haynes manual on ebay, something for a really obsolete 70's car.
Buyer from (dodgy) middle eastern country agreed to £5 plus £15 postage at cost, and several weeks wait with no signature. Few weeks later I get the message it hasn't turned up and asking for full refund.
I said no problem, leave it another week, if it doesn't turn up I have another I can send you.(I didn't, I just made it up) never heard back from him.

[PistonTim]

Muzzer79 said:

If the buyer was serious about thinking the car was a dud and he'd been ripped off, he'd have accepted the OPs offer of a refund and collecting the car himself.

The fact that he hasn't tells us everything - his next move will be to offer that the OP gives him £200/£500/£1000 back to 'fix the problems' and make good instead of a refund.

Scammer.

Exactly, he was floating a £1k number on the phone but I told him I wasn't going to send sums of money for undisclosed work on a car that was in working order when I sold it.

[Wacky Racer]

Pelicula said:

RECEIPT.

Received from - Mr. SImon Jones
The sum of £10000 via Bank Transfer
As full payment for
BMW X5 CX67 GHN
Odometer 65432
Which is SOLD AS SEEN
With no warranty given, implied or otherwise
Dated 15-6-23
Time 17:10
Signed (seller) -
Signed (buyer) -

Print two copies of the above and both sign
Print two copies of Bank Transfer - both sign.

Over a cup of tea.
Firm handshake.
Wave it down the road.

File for injury claim incoming as tendons damaged as handshake was too strong.

Bloke works in contracting, missed four weeks work at £500 day rate.