997 GTS, Turbo S, 991.2 - Confusing myself with indecision
Discussion
In previous posts I had some great input into a possible 991.2 GTS purchase, now I have confused myself with different possibilities. I have driven all the cars I am considering but am maybe frozen with indecision so any views from owners/former owners of these welcome - there has been plenty on here over the years but always interesting to hear more views:
Summary/context: Kids recently started uni, we no longer need a DD 4 seater, we do need a car for driving around with my wife a few times a week to tenins club, visiting friends, family and also has to be a 2+2 for occasional back seat use. I have some 90s/00s Ferraris for weekend blasts. I don't track my cars. I live in central London, with forays out of town and an annual road trip to Italy. Needs to be a cabriolet (wife) and probably PDK although manual not out of question.
When I sold our W204 C63 AMG estate, I bought a 992 C2S but found it uninvolving at UK speeds. Then bought a new Brabus B600 C63S cabriolet last year but sold it as it was boring unless on the Autobahn. Meanwhile home extensions mean my available budget has reduced: recently looking at £80k-ish for a 991.2 GTS but would be diplomatic to spend around £60k instead.
In the £60k or thereabouts bracket my roundabout of options are:
997 GTS
997 Turbo S
997 S (and save some £)
991.2 S
(991.1 but I didn't like the steering)
Also considering a Ferrari California but maintenance costs would be undiplomatic.
I always liked the 997 GTS but given it's a car that loves revs, wondering about TT S instead, for easier performance, then keep going back and forth into 991s. I guess I'm being indecisive as my last 2 purchases (992 S, Brabus) I have both sold, and lost £ on, because I got bored of them and don't want it to happen again.
Did anyone get bored of their 997 TT S? Sometimes happens with turbo cars after the initial thrill wears off. I found the 991 Turbos brilliant but clinical. 997 is a bit less clinical but...GTS and S more sharp but more peaky...but...
Going round in circles.
Summary/context: Kids recently started uni, we no longer need a DD 4 seater, we do need a car for driving around with my wife a few times a week to tenins club, visiting friends, family and also has to be a 2+2 for occasional back seat use. I have some 90s/00s Ferraris for weekend blasts. I don't track my cars. I live in central London, with forays out of town and an annual road trip to Italy. Needs to be a cabriolet (wife) and probably PDK although manual not out of question.
When I sold our W204 C63 AMG estate, I bought a 992 C2S but found it uninvolving at UK speeds. Then bought a new Brabus B600 C63S cabriolet last year but sold it as it was boring unless on the Autobahn. Meanwhile home extensions mean my available budget has reduced: recently looking at £80k-ish for a 991.2 GTS but would be diplomatic to spend around £60k instead.
In the £60k or thereabouts bracket my roundabout of options are:
997 GTS
997 Turbo S
997 S (and save some £)
991.2 S
(991.1 but I didn't like the steering)
Also considering a Ferrari California but maintenance costs would be undiplomatic.
I always liked the 997 GTS but given it's a car that loves revs, wondering about TT S instead, for easier performance, then keep going back and forth into 991s. I guess I'm being indecisive as my last 2 purchases (992 S, Brabus) I have both sold, and lost £ on, because I got bored of them and don't want it to happen again.
Did anyone get bored of their 997 TT S? Sometimes happens with turbo cars after the initial thrill wears off. I found the 991 Turbos brilliant but clinical. 997 is a bit less clinical but...GTS and S more sharp but more peaky...but...
Going round in circles.
Sounds like we have similar car history, so hopefully some of what I type rings true.
You mention about the Brabus being boring, I fear the TS may be similar. Incredible speed, not much noise. miles too quick for the road (I know all 911s are but this takes the biscuit).
I like the 997GTS but it's quite an old car now and I feel they are overpriced. For 40k, yes, 60k seems too much.
I'd go for the 991.2 assuming it's a pre OPF. in fact i've been window shopping for them this morning, but it's a way off for me!
Rhodium silver for me, PSE, PDK (I assume Polar is only PTS now?).
You mention about the Brabus being boring, I fear the TS may be similar. Incredible speed, not much noise. miles too quick for the road (I know all 911s are but this takes the biscuit).
I like the 997GTS but it's quite an old car now and I feel they are overpriced. For 40k, yes, 60k seems too much.
I'd go for the 991.2 assuming it's a pre OPF. in fact i've been window shopping for them this morning, but it's a way off for me!
Rhodium silver for me, PSE, PDK (I assume Polar is only PTS now?).
Given the other cars in the garage & wanting something a bit more involving then the 997 generation will be a good shout, it has the hydraulic steering too.
Not to complicate or add to further indecision but wondering if a base car might be more fun? It will be a car that will need going through the power band more without doing stupid speeds. Although with this model you may have to wait a bit more to find a car with the right spec - GTS will include a lot of stuff like sport chrono as standard.
These cars are also cheaper, so any depreciation in terms of real ££ might be less than a more expensive car. Good luck
Not to complicate or add to further indecision but wondering if a base car might be more fun? It will be a car that will need going through the power band more without doing stupid speeds. Although with this model you may have to wait a bit more to find a car with the right spec - GTS will include a lot of stuff like sport chrono as standard.
These cars are also cheaper, so any depreciation in terms of real ££ might be less than a more expensive car. Good luck
First Sea Lord said:
997.2 S will probably tick a lot of the boxes. 997 GTS is great but a lot more money as you say, and probably not worth the premium unless you're dead set on a GTS
997 PDK is more slow witted than 991 PDK so better to go manual if going 997
another vote for a manual 997.2 C2S - my friend had one and I loved driving that. My 997 RS is very special to drive, just the tactility etc while still being modern enough to not be a major hassle 997 PDK is more slow witted than 991 PDK so better to go manual if going 997
Thank you, everyone. That's very helpful as it has helped narrow down my choice, as so far nobody has voted 997 Turbo S.
And the point about 997 GTS vs 997.2 S + £20k is very valid.
997.2 S v 991.2 S, or indeed a base 991.2, good point, is now the next indecision.
Organic feel, etc, push me towards the 997. But modernity and comfort, and just more punch, push to 991.2.
Point taken about warranty. In fact ideally I would buy whatever car it was with a Porsche warranty, obviously easier on the newer ones.
And the point about 997 GTS vs 997.2 S + £20k is very valid.
997.2 S v 991.2 S, or indeed a base 991.2, good point, is now the next indecision.
Organic feel, etc, push me towards the 997. But modernity and comfort, and just more punch, push to 991.2.
Point taken about warranty. In fact ideally I would buy whatever car it was with a Porsche warranty, obviously easier on the newer ones.
For example, this 991.2 S is at £63,950 (manual cabrios are quite rare)
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15574915
It seems like a good spec, though no Porsche warranty
While this OPC 997.2 S has been on at £49.9k since before Christmas
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15756736
It's PDK though
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15574915
It seems like a good spec, though no Porsche warranty
While this OPC 997.2 S has been on at £49.9k since before Christmas
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15756736
It's PDK though
Another vote for 997 GTS here.
I had a 997 GTS, then a 991 GTS & 922 GTS and would say the 991 is the worst of the three models. The 992 is clearly the most 'capable', but I do often think back about how good the 997 was in retrospect.
Yes, its clearly old tech now, but the cabin is nice and for 90% of driving, the 997 GTS is more enjoyable likely due to reduced power, etc. You don't need to be going crazy speeds to be enjoying yourself, which is something obviously getting lost somewhere in modern sports/super cars.
Also, if you are looking at something which may not lose its money, then I think the 997 is the best bet due to the numbers produced. In '2' guise there were about 700 registered I believe, and in '4' guise there were less than 200 registered. Compare that against the 991 where is it is literally thousands of each.
I had a 997 GTS, then a 991 GTS & 922 GTS and would say the 991 is the worst of the three models. The 992 is clearly the most 'capable', but I do often think back about how good the 997 was in retrospect.
Yes, its clearly old tech now, but the cabin is nice and for 90% of driving, the 997 GTS is more enjoyable likely due to reduced power, etc. You don't need to be going crazy speeds to be enjoying yourself, which is something obviously getting lost somewhere in modern sports/super cars.
Also, if you are looking at something which may not lose its money, then I think the 997 is the best bet due to the numbers produced. In '2' guise there were about 700 registered I believe, and in '4' guise there were less than 200 registered. Compare that against the 991 where is it is literally thousands of each.
Hobo said:
I had a 997 GTS, then a 991 GTS & 922 GTS and would say the 991 is the worst of the three models.
Also had several generations of 911 and wouldn’t agree with that comment about the 991. Thought the 991.2 was better than the 991.1. And, the ‘sweet spot’, if looking for a bit of retro-911 feel, would be the base Carrera or ‘T’ - narrow body, manual transmission, lighter weight but all the modern conveniences.
The car your after doesnt exist tbh.... so its a DD for you and the wife, a 2+2, not really for weekends, central london, auto, road trips AND has to be a cab lol. Thats a whole lot of compromises in every direction. The cars youve been through have all been sold because you got bored, see previous sentence.
997 of any flavour is closer to your Fezza's in terms of less daily usability. Yes you can, but you will miss all the trappings of a modern car for nipping down the shops and DD duties. Headlights, NVH, stereo, bluetooth, hvac etc etc.
991.1 Better as a DD than the 997, get the steering but try one without power steering plus, or try a GTS; albeit very compromised as a Cab.... Afford a targa?
991.2 As above, and better again as a DD. Engine better as a DD but not as involving and less sound.
You mention plural Fezza's... open your options; sell one buy a more usable sports car for the road trips and weekends; and something more normal for the DD duties and you can still use the sports car too to mix it up when you get bored.... again
997 of any flavour is closer to your Fezza's in terms of less daily usability. Yes you can, but you will miss all the trappings of a modern car for nipping down the shops and DD duties. Headlights, NVH, stereo, bluetooth, hvac etc etc.
991.1 Better as a DD than the 997, get the steering but try one without power steering plus, or try a GTS; albeit very compromised as a Cab.... Afford a targa?
991.2 As above, and better again as a DD. Engine better as a DD but not as involving and less sound.
You mention plural Fezza's... open your options; sell one buy a more usable sports car for the road trips and weekends; and something more normal for the DD duties and you can still use the sports car too to mix it up when you get bored.... again
I think the op is overthinking it. Your limitations are living in central London and expecting the car to do all things to all men, and women.
I live in NE London and have a base 997.1 manual. It’s useless already for London. Too fast. The gearing is too long and the roads are rubbish. One has to drive outside of London to enjoy the thing and then you’re limited by cameras, lots of cars on the road, speed bumps and 20 mph zones. A GTS, Turbo, Turbo S, even an S, are overkill, unless you track the car.
Best to get a 991 PDK and be done with it. If you track the car look at others but for pootling around, you really don’t need any more than the base with some choice options.
I live in NE London and have a base 997.1 manual. It’s useless already for London. Too fast. The gearing is too long and the roads are rubbish. One has to drive outside of London to enjoy the thing and then you’re limited by cameras, lots of cars on the road, speed bumps and 20 mph zones. A GTS, Turbo, Turbo S, even an S, are overkill, unless you track the car.
Best to get a 991 PDK and be done with it. If you track the car look at others but for pootling around, you really don’t need any more than the base with some choice options.
There’s definitely some truth to the last two replies. I’m looking for a car that doesn’t exist..and I’m overthinking it.
Can’t really deny that. And a 911 isn’t really a car I should be looking at, logically..but still, irrationality makes life, and car purchases, more interesting I guess.
I suspect I will end up buying whatever very nice spec/colour combination of one of these comes up at a good price, first, with good warranty.
Can’t really deny that. And a 911 isn’t really a car I should be looking at, logically..but still, irrationality makes life, and car purchases, more interesting I guess.
I suspect I will end up buying whatever very nice spec/colour combination of one of these comes up at a good price, first, with good warranty.
I have a manual 997 GTS. <<bias here>> but have driven a number of 991s. I almost switched to a 991T but it didn't do enough to be different. My only thinking is something very different like a 991 GTS Targa <<place dislike for targa comments here>> 
If you drive alot, and need to cruise, have more refinement - 991 is you
A good friend just went from a 991 GTS PDK to a 2S 997 manual - feels he gets more out of driving when he does
If you drive alot, and need to cruise, have more refinement - 991 is you
A good friend just went from a 991 GTS PDK to a 2S 997 manual - feels he gets more out of driving when he does
Having been away from Porsche for 10 years, I didn't realise how little standard equipment is included on the 991. Seems like since the 996 all the new tech has been developed but the standard equipment level for 911 has not moved on!
Even for the GTS, the "GTS interior" is an option, things like parking sensors and camera, cruise control which are pretty standard on competitors are options.
If you compare to something like a C63 (I know it's not like for like as the C63 is a halo model) where they including virtually everything, it means searching for a used model is tricky
Even for the GTS, the "GTS interior" is an option, things like parking sensors and camera, cruise control which are pretty standard on competitors are options.
If you compare to something like a C63 (I know it's not like for like as the C63 is a halo model) where they including virtually everything, it means searching for a used model is tricky
mikeh501 said:
997 of any flavour is closer to your Fezza's in terms of less daily usability. Yes you can, but you will miss all the trappings of a modern car for nipping down the shops and DD duties. Headlights, NVH, stereo, bluetooth, hvac etc etc.
Eh? My 997 Turbo with mega front spoiler has been kept on the street for ten years. It could do with a new spoiler for cosmetics but it's hardly beaten up. Headlights are fine. NVH - just finished a 250 mile round trip today to Worcester and back, not even a back twinge to speak of. Bluetooth - fair enough but a £30 investment in a Bluetooth receiver fixes that. HVAC - I set a temp, it keeps a temp. MC99 said:
I have a manual 997 GTS. <<bias here>> but have driven a number of 991s. I almost switched to a 991T but it didn't do enough to be different. My only thinking is something very different like a 991 GTS Targa <<place dislike for targa comments here>>
If you drive alot, and need to cruise, have more refinement - 991 is you
A good friend just went from a 991 GTS PDK to a 2S 997 manual - feels he gets more out of driving when he does
That's a good way of putting it, getting more out of driving when you do it. As cars develop they take more of the involvement, and also the strain, away. It's about where you can tolerate being on that spectrum. 992 C2S and Brabus C63S were too far along for me, but equally I'm not going to DD one of my manual Ferraris or the 205 GTI of my youth..so a manual 997.2 S sounds tempting right now, but finding a good one (a cabrio) is going to be challenging. One dealer has one up for 60k, has been for sale since September. 18k miles and probably 15k too expensive. If you drive alot, and need to cruise, have more refinement - 991 is you
A good friend just went from a 991 GTS PDK to a 2S 997 manual - feels he gets more out of driving when he does
Had a similar dilemma last summer and in the end bought a 997 GTS 4. I live in London and all my previous cars have been classics. I wanted something more practical, ULEZ compliant and with minimal depreciation. The GTS feels a bit more "special" as rarer and with all those extras that I would have liked if I'd bought a C4S or similar. I'd have loved a manual, but with a £15k premium I couldn't afford it. The PDK isn't perfect but its not bad and far easier to have in London.
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