Time for Lance to go
Discussion
I realise that Lance Stroll is driving in Daddy’s team but it’s time for him to go. He’s not scoring points to back up Alonso and the team is suffering. If it wants to be a better team regularly further up the grid it needs two good points scorers. With Honda coming on board will a Japanese driver be a requirement?
Some commentators (Eddie Jordan, Will Buxton etc.) have suggested the same, that Lance is off-- Eddie in particular (like him or loathe him), has made some left field (and correct) calls in the past.
The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
Papa Stroll is involved in Motorsport since karting JUST because he wants to make Lance a world champion. Even in the court documents during the Force India bankruptcy Lawrence Strulovitch mentioned that his investment was solely to improve his son’s chances.
Unless Lance himself gives up, he will always be driving in F1.
Unless Lance himself gives up, he will always be driving in F1.
LittleBigPlanet said:
Some commentators (Eddie Jordan, Will Buxton etc.) have suggested the same, that Lance is off-- Eddie in particular (like him or loathe him), has made some left field (and correct) calls in the past.
The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
It’s so easy for Toto to put Antonelli in Williams for a few years before assuming a Mercedes seat. The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
I won’t be surprised if we see Sainz, Albon, or even Vettel taking the second Mercedes seat just for two years.
Kart16 said:
LittleBigPlanet said:
Some commentators (Eddie Jordan, Will Buxton etc.) have suggested the same, that Lance is off-- Eddie in particular (like him or loathe him), has made some left field (and correct) calls in the past.
The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
It’s so easy for Toto to put Antonelli in Williams for a few years before assuming a Mercedes seat. The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
I won’t be surprised if we see Sainz, Albon, or even Vettel taking the second Mercedes seat just for two years.
I don't see what's changed?
Why now?
Lance is a reasonably competent pay driver who seems pretty adept (these days) at keeping his car shiny side up and the same shape it was handed to him. Every few years he seems to manage to pull a miraculous performance out from nowhere ... before rapidly returning to his regular mediocrity. Considering he's there at his father's indulgence, things could be a lot worse.
Stroll senior talks about making Aston a leading team, and throws money at it like he wants that to happen. Then he hamstrings the team by putting his son in the second car.
I honestly don't know which way he'll decide ... to continue with the team as a plaything for his son (and billboard for one of his other businesses) ... or to get serious about an assault on a world title. I imagine with the change in the F1 landscape since he bought Force India, he could continue to run the thing as Lance's pet project, and still be quids in when it comes to selling up. But I think that deep down he is a driven and competitive man, and eventually those urges will compel him to push for the top. Maybe that time will coincide with when Lance decides he's had enough of driving cars in circles slightly slower than the really, really good drivers ...
Either way, I don't see that anything has changed recently to change that equation one way or the other.
Why now?
Lance is a reasonably competent pay driver who seems pretty adept (these days) at keeping his car shiny side up and the same shape it was handed to him. Every few years he seems to manage to pull a miraculous performance out from nowhere ... before rapidly returning to his regular mediocrity. Considering he's there at his father's indulgence, things could be a lot worse.
Stroll senior talks about making Aston a leading team, and throws money at it like he wants that to happen. Then he hamstrings the team by putting his son in the second car.
I honestly don't know which way he'll decide ... to continue with the team as a plaything for his son (and billboard for one of his other businesses) ... or to get serious about an assault on a world title. I imagine with the change in the F1 landscape since he bought Force India, he could continue to run the thing as Lance's pet project, and still be quids in when it comes to selling up. But I think that deep down he is a driven and competitive man, and eventually those urges will compel him to push for the top. Maybe that time will coincide with when Lance decides he's had enough of driving cars in circles slightly slower than the really, really good drivers ...
Either way, I don't see that anything has changed recently to change that equation one way or the other.
Kart16 said:
Papa Stroll is involved in Motorsport since karting JUST because he wants to make Lance a world champion. Even in the court documents during the Force India bankruptcy Lawrence Strulovitch mentioned that his investment was solely to improve his son’s chances.
Unless Lance himself gives up, he will always be driving in F1.
Oh, I agree, I was just sharing what others' have said.Unless Lance himself gives up, he will always be driving in F1.
How many other journeyman F1 drivers could you say the same about?
Stroll, Ricciardo, Magnusson, Bottas, Sargeant, Hulkenberg and Guanyu are all in my wouldn't be missed group. Other than Stroll (because his dad owns the team) I don't understand why the others still have a drive.
The longer Gasly and Ocon stay at Alpine the more their stock price decreases and the more likely they are to be added to the above group of drivers.
Stroll, Ricciardo, Magnusson, Bottas, Sargeant, Hulkenberg and Guanyu are all in my wouldn't be missed group. Other than Stroll (because his dad owns the team) I don't understand why the others still have a drive.
The longer Gasly and Ocon stay at Alpine the more their stock price decreases and the more likely they are to be added to the above group of drivers.
I’ve always had respect for Stroll - he won F3 and is nowhere near the Mazepin etc some people seem to think. Other drivers seem to find him a decent chap, too.
From time to time he’s driven well and prowess in wet/changing conditions suggests he has some raw talent - just poor consistency.
I just think he’d be happier doing Aston sports/Hypercar racing, and the team clearly needs a better driver to match the investment and ambition.
I’d certainly much rather have a good shot at winning Le Mans and enjoy the less frantic schedule of WEC, do some historic Aston Martin stuff at Goodwood, classic Le Mans, etc than have to traipse around the whole planet being soundly beaten by a Spanish OAP.
From time to time he’s driven well and prowess in wet/changing conditions suggests he has some raw talent - just poor consistency.
I just think he’d be happier doing Aston sports/Hypercar racing, and the team clearly needs a better driver to match the investment and ambition.
I’d certainly much rather have a good shot at winning Le Mans and enjoy the less frantic schedule of WEC, do some historic Aston Martin stuff at Goodwood, classic Le Mans, etc than have to traipse around the whole planet being soundly beaten by a Spanish OAP.
OnDaysLikeThese said:
I’ve always had respect for Stroll - he won F3 and is nowhere near the Mazepin etc some people seem to think. Other drivers seem to find him a decent chap, too.
From time to time he’s driven well and prowess in wet/changing conditions suggests he has some raw talent - just poor consistency.
I just think he’d be happier doing Aston sports/Hypercar racing, and the team clearly needs a better driver to match the investment and ambition.
I’d certainly much rather have a good shot at winning Le Mans and enjoy the less frantic schedule of WEC, do some historic Aston Martin stuff at Goodwood, classic Le Mans, etc than have to traipse around the whole planet being soundly beaten by a Spanish OAP.
I’d agree with all of that chap. He’s had some really good drives over the years, but as you say inconsistent is the watchword. I also admired his comeback after his wrist injury. From time to time he’s driven well and prowess in wet/changing conditions suggests he has some raw talent - just poor consistency.
I just think he’d be happier doing Aston sports/Hypercar racing, and the team clearly needs a better driver to match the investment and ambition.
I’d certainly much rather have a good shot at winning Le Mans and enjoy the less frantic schedule of WEC, do some historic Aston Martin stuff at Goodwood, classic Le Mans, etc than have to traipse around the whole planet being soundly beaten by a Spanish OAP.
LittleBigPlanet said:
Some commentators (Eddie Jordan, Will Buxton etc.) have suggested the same, that Lance is off-- Eddie in particular (like him or loathe him), has made some left field (and correct) calls in the past.
The deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
Carlos is going to Merc, expect an announcement at/after Chinese GPThe deal for George's number two also appears to be done (Antonelli), while Carlos could be off to Sauber (at Zhou's expense).
But perhaps worth taking w/ a skip of salt.
Diderot said:
I’d agree with all of that chap. He’s had some really good drives over the years, but as you say inconsistent is the watchword. I also admired his comeback after his wrist injury.
Thanks!Yes, he has real grit. The vitriol that’s been aimed at him over the years is something with which I’ve always been uncomfortable.
All that said, he’s bagged three podiums and some decent drives - but it’s got to the point where remaining in F1 is neither good for him nor the team.
The odd thing is I suspect he might not be unaware of that, or *would* be aware of it if not for the fact that ‘Lance Stroll WDC’ is maybe even more of a Lawrence Stroll dream than it is a Lance one.
Edited by OnDaysLikeThese on Wednesday 10th April 21:40
Lance has always been a reasonable journeyman but nothing more.
But I said to the Mrs the other night, right now Alonso is showing him right up, and to ponder where the team be with someone good in the second (first I guess...) seat is painfully unavoidable.
Wonder what Aston would do in a williamsesque one car situation
But I said to the Mrs the other night, right now Alonso is showing him right up, and to ponder where the team be with someone good in the second (first I guess...) seat is painfully unavoidable.
Wonder what Aston would do in a williamsesque one car situation
OnDaysLikeThese said:
All that said, he’s bagged three podiums and some decent drives - but it’s got to the point where remaining in F1 is neither good for him nor the team.
Which is three more than Nico Hulkenburg whom everybody seems to think is brilliant. He is, just not in F1.Edited by MustangGT on Thursday 11th April 13:32
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
How many other journeyman F1 drivers could you say the same about?
Stroll, Ricciardo, Magnusson, Bottas, Sargeant, Hulkenberg and Guanyu are all in my wouldn't be missed group. Other than Stroll (because his dad owns the team) I don't understand why the others still have a drive.
The longer Gasly and Ocon stay at Alpine the more their stock price decreases and the more likely they are to be added to the above group of drivers.
There’s a fair few journeymen around at the moment. Hopefully with the very busy silly season this year, a few of them get shuffled off and we can see some new talent coming through from the junior series. Stroll, Ricciardo, Magnusson, Bottas, Sargeant, Hulkenberg and Guanyu are all in my wouldn't be missed group. Other than Stroll (because his dad owns the team) I don't understand why the others still have a drive.
The longer Gasly and Ocon stay at Alpine the more their stock price decreases and the more likely they are to be added to the above group of drivers.
The much lauded Olli Bearman was 6th in F2 last season. None of the five above him got an F1 drive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Formula_2_Cha...
Of the ‘22 F2 championship, the only driver to move up was Logan Sargeant from 4th place, although ‘21 did produce Piastri and Zhou.
OnDaysLikeThese said:
I’ve always had respect for Stroll - he won F3 and is nowhere near the Mazepin etc some people seem to think. Other drivers seem to find him a decent chap, too.
From time to time he’s driven well and prowess in wet/changing conditions suggests he has some raw talent - just poor consistency.
I just think he’d be happier doing Aston sports/Hypercar racing, and the team clearly needs a better driver to match the investment and ambition.
I’d certainly much rather have a good shot at winning Le Mans and enjoy the less frantic schedule of WEC, do some historic Aston Martin stuff at Goodwood, classic Le Mans, etc than have to traipse around the whole planet being soundly beaten by a Spanish OAP.
Just a bit of context...From time to time he’s driven well and prowess in wet/changing conditions suggests he has some raw talent - just poor consistency.
I just think he’d be happier doing Aston sports/Hypercar racing, and the team clearly needs a better driver to match the investment and ambition.
I’d certainly much rather have a good shot at winning Le Mans and enjoy the less frantic schedule of WEC, do some historic Aston Martin stuff at Goodwood, classic Le Mans, etc than have to traipse around the whole planet being soundly beaten by a Spanish OAP.
Back then Prema was the absolute dominant F3 team. Papa Stroll BOUGHT 50% of the team and everything was done around Lance. If I'm not mistaken, Papa Stroll even hired Felix Rosenquist, the previous F3 champion, to be Lance's coach.
Edited by Kart16 on Thursday 11th April 16:46
OnDaysLikeThese said:
Thanks!
Yes, he has real grit. The vitriol that’s been aimed at him over the years is something with which I’ve always been uncomfortable.
All that said, he’s bagged three podiums and some decent drives - but it’s got to the point where remaining in F1 is neither good for him nor the team.
The odd thing is I suspect he might not be unaware of that, or *would* be aware of it if not for the fact that ‘Lance Stroll WDC’ is maybe even more of a Lawrence Stroll dream than it is a Lance one.
It's not 'MAYBE', it's CERTAIN. Lawrence's obsession in making his son world champion comes from the karting times. Just to give you an example:Yes, he has real grit. The vitriol that’s been aimed at him over the years is something with which I’ve always been uncomfortable.
All that said, he’s bagged three podiums and some decent drives - but it’s got to the point where remaining in F1 is neither good for him nor the team.
The odd thing is I suspect he might not be unaware of that, or *would* be aware of it if not for the fact that ‘Lance Stroll WDC’ is maybe even more of a Lawrence Stroll dream than it is a Lance one.
Edited by OnDaysLikeThese on Wednesday 10th April 21:40
In 2010 and 2011 Nick de Vries became double karting world champion with the Chiesa Corse team. Dino Chiesa, the team owner, is a legend of the sport and was previously the chief of "Team MBM", the karting squadra set up exclusively for Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. Chiesa is also a talent scout for F1 teams and is the person who introduced Kimi Antonelli to Toto Wolf.f
Anyway, in 2012 Lance moved to Chiesa Corse, simply one of the best and best equipped karting teams in the world. Just weeks before the start of the 2012 season, out of nowhere, a brand new F1 motorhome costing over $500,000 was delivered to Chiesa's headquarters in Italy. It was Lawrence who had bought it with no notice! It was so ridiculous that the motorhome was delivered with a livery saying “Scuderia Karting”, which had nothing to do with Chiesa Corse.
Edited by Kart16 on Thursday 11th April 16:47
Edited by Kart16 on Thursday 11th April 19:20
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