Late 986S vs Early 987S

[Dave200]

If you've seen my thread in the Car Buying section of the forum, you'll notice that I'm lamenting the choice of rwd, open-top fun cars at £13-14k. The car would be used for touring, 2-3 trackdays a year, and a trackday at the Ring once a year. My biggest problem with the £13k 987 is that I seem to be scraping the barrel in terms of my choice. Would I perhaps be better off opening up to the idea of spending £9-10k on a really good example of a late 986S, and keeping a couple of quid in my pocket? Can anyone give any insight into their experiences of owning both? I've driven a 986S and really liked it, and I've always felt like the early 00s was the sweet spot for analogue cars with the right levels of tech. I briefly drove an early Cayman on track, and it definitely felt better built and more modern inside, but too much time had elapsed since the 986 drive to really compare properly. I wouldn't expect running costs to be dramatically different, but not spending up to my budget and not buying at the bottom of the market for a 987 would make me feel slightly more comfortable.

[jamsp00n]

£13-14k is plenty for a decent 987.1 3.2 in a private sale. And you don't want the .1 3.4, anyway. Shop around and it will probably get you into a reasonable 987.2 2.9. To be honest, if you know what you're doing £10k would get you into a nice 987.1 3.2 with slightly higher miles around, oh, 80-90k? The 3.2 doesn't really score, so that kind of mileage can be fine.

I mean, there are some nice low mile 987.2 3.4s at well known dealers for sub £20k, they've come off quite a bit since the pandemic madness.

Obviously the quality of cars varies a lot, and one £13-14k 987.1 might be a shed, another quite nice. That said, if £14k is going to wipe you out leaving you with no fighting fund for repairs, then yeah might be better to get a 986. The 987.1 3.2 is noticeably quicker than the 986 3.2, but that aside, it's pros and cons. The 986 is a bit more pure and transparent, the 987 is a bit more capable but insulated. The 986 is the sweeter, slightly more analogue drive. But my personal pick as an all rounder to own and live with is probably the 987.1 3.2. A well specced one is an awful lot of car for the money, the Porsche bargain of the moment.

Other option if you're risk averse is an E85 Z4 3.0 Si with the fairly bombproof 260hp N52 lump. Personally think the e85 Z gets a bad rap. It's not as good to drive out of the, er, box as the Boxster options, for sure. But the core car is pretty good and the engine is great. Haven't owned one so I don't know how easy it is to sort things like the shift quality and the brake pedal feel, but would imagine aspects like that can at least be improved. An option, anyway.

[Dave200]

Sadly I don't fit in that generation of Z4, so that's out of the equation. I sort of feel like I stand a better chance of getting a really well sorted 986, with all the common problems addressed, and a bit of change in my pocket for my budget. Whereas with the 987 it's more likely I'll be getting slim pickings, and having to choose between desirable colours, the options I want and the work/history that I want.

[jamsp00n]

If you don't fit in the Z, the 986 is going to be a struggle, too.

[TameRacingDriver]

jamsp00n said:

If you don't fit in the Z, the 986 is going to be a struggle, too.

Had both, the 986 feels noticeably more spacious inside.

[Dave200]

jamsp00n said:

If you don't fit in the Z, the 986 is going to be a struggle, too.

I've driven one, and I fit. The Porsche has more room in the footwell and the steering wheel sits higher relative to my knees.

[Shedding]

I did quite a lot of reading before choosing a 2.7 987.1 Cayman. It seems to be about as reliable as you can get for a limited budget. Bigger IMS, unlikely to bore score plus the 5 speed manual scrapes into the lower road tax bracket (with some exceptions). I'm not convinced that any savings you make on buying a 986 wouldn't end up being spent on extra maintenance.

[Dave200]

Shedding said:

I did quite a lot of reading before choosing a 2.7 987.1 Cayman. It seems to be about as reliable as you can get for a limited budget. Bigger IMS, unlikely to bore score plus the 5 speed manual scrapes into the lower road tax bracket (with some exceptions). I'm not convinced that any savings you make on buying a 986 wouldn't end up being spent on extra maintenance.

I really like a convertible, so haven't considered the Cayman to date.

[ATM]

Dave200 said:

jamsp00n said:

If you don't fit in the Z, the 986 is going to be a struggle, too.

I've driven one, and I fit. The Porsche has more room in the footwell and the steering wheel sits higher relative to my knees.

Driven a 986 or 987?

I don't really fit in a 986 but I do have one. I never drive it but that's another story. Pics with the original 986 seat below - first 3.

The 987 seat makes a big difference in the 986. It's a common mod. I did this very soon after getting mine. Pic below - 4th one.

You sit a bit lower and a bit further back with the 987 seat. Although sometimes if you are comparing a well worn 986 seat the difference is less obvious as they can sag a lot over time.

987 standard seats are fine. You don't need the sports seats. These are way more expensive if you're sourcing used on ebay etc.

The 987 seat is just better. The foam and everything is just much much better. If you're upgrading a 986 then the 981 seat also bolts in. No idea about 718 seats but suspect they'll fit too.

So when comparing cars this is worth considering. A 987 will already have good seats. A 986 will probably need upgrading.

The other small change is the adjustable steering wheel position. Much more movement in the 987 which again makes it roomier for the larger gentleman.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...







https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[ATM]

Ok I've read your first post again now and see you've driven both a 986 and a Cayman.

I've never had a 987 but I suspect Porsche just made lots of incremental improvements over the 986. So for that reason I'd say buying a 987 is the logical choice. I didn't buy my 986 because of logic. It will also be newer. My 986 is 23 years old.

Original 986 has plastic rear window which isn't simple to use - Boxster chop. Second gen went glass.

987 uses a much bigger and stiffer bush on the front suspension arms. This is carried over to the 981 also.

3.2 987 makes 280 bhp compared to 250 to 260 in the 986.

I'd avoid the 3.4 gen 1 as its the most risky engine choice for bore score and its £700 road tax.

As mentioned the 987.2 2.9 is worth considering as it makes 255bhp and will be the newest. But the later cars came with intrusive traction control which can't be turned completely off. On the 986 traction control was an optional extra. Mine doesn't have it.

19 inch wheel option on the 987 but I'd probably suggest 18 makes most sense for track use. And you still get some usable chunky tyre wall going with 18 on the 987.

Slightly shorter shifter on the 987 again a common mod on the 986.

So I'm saying 987 has many benefits over the 986 and a good 3.2 will be what you want. Or a later 2.9 if in budget.

[Dave200]

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out. I think budget and time of year might ultimately end up making my decision for me. I'd ideally like to buy the car in the next month, so I can use it on a Route Napoleon/Alpine roadtrip at the start of July. I'm in 'peak convertible' time of year in price terms, which means that I'm fishing in a much smaller pond of good 987s for my budget than 986s. I always aim to buy the best example I can, because I'm not really able to do much work on cars myself, which might lead me to buying at the top of the 986 market.

Those photos of the seating positions are really helpful, and while I'm a few years older/stiffer than I was when I first drove these cars, I'd hope that I can still fit as I did. For reference, what height are you and do you have enough headroom for a helmet (I obviously wore one in the Cayman, but not the 986)?

[ATM]

Dave200 said:

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out. I think budget and time of year might ultimately end up making my decision for me. I'd ideally like to buy the car in the next month, so I can use it on a Route Napoleon/Alpine roadtrip at the start of July. I'm in 'peak convertible' time of year in price terms, which means that I'm fishing in a much smaller pond of good 987s for my budget than 986s. I always aim to buy the best example I can, because I'm not really able to do much work on cars myself, which might lead me to buying at the top of the 986 market.

Time of year doesn't just mean higher prices. It could mean better cars as sellers not rushing to sell at the worst time possible. So this could mean wealthier sellers with better cars that are not exactly desperate to sell. Yes I am a glass half full kind of guy.

Dave200 said:

Those photos of the seating positions are really helpful, and while I'm a few years older/stiffer than I was when I first drove these cars, I'd hope that I can still fit as I did. For reference, what height are you and do you have enough headroom for a helmet (I obviously wore one in the Cayman, but not the 986)?

Same as Me. My first Porsche was a 986.2 in 2003 and obviously I was 21 years younger than I am now. I loved that car and thats why I have been hankering for another for many many years. I decided to get an earlier car this time because I prefer the simpler bumpers. The gen 2 bumpers are bit fussier. But thats just my madness talking. I would still prefer cup holders, a glove box and a glass rear window so the gen 1 isn't exactly the smart choice.

I'm a smidgen below 6 2 and I've not tried a helmet sorry. I now have Recaro Pole Position buckets in the 986 with some tricky sliding mounts from BBI - first pic below. I've been tinkering with a few different seats and found these work best in the 986 due to how the top of the seat interacts with the roll over hoops. Some buckets just dont really work if they have a more pronounced headrest type section.

These are a bit more spendy but give a lot more legroom and headroom. Next 2 pics below show that my legs now dont hit the steering wheel at all even when going onto the clutch pedal. This is why lots of people like the centre console delete in the 986 because it lets your left leg fall further towards the centre of the car.

[jamsp00n]

Dave200 said:

I'm in 'peak convertible' time of year in price terms, which means that I'm fishing in a much smaller pond of good 987s for my budget than 986s.

I'm not personally anti 986. In some ways they're the sweeter more engaging drive, but surely there are loads of 987 3.2 S for your up to £14k budget?

Dealer (with decent rep) car on 57k miles for £13.9k.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405109...

Private car on 60k miles for £11k.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405149...

Private car on 62k miles for £11.75k.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405129...

Etc etc. There are quite a few. £14k is quite a lot for a private 987.1 3.2. It by no means low ball. Low ball would be this 99k mile car for under £9k.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405149...

You'll have no problem getting a nice 987.1 3.2 for up to £14k. I'd say £12k was a reasonable budget for a nice privately sold car. If you prefer the 986, go for it, they're great. I just wouldn't go 986 on the basis that $14k isn't enough for a nice 987. It totally is.

Literally the most expensive advertised price for a 987.1 3.2 Box from a private seller on AT right now is £14,995 and there are about 25 to choose from.

There are roughly another 10 dealer cars on AT and only one above £15k. And that's at an OPC. If your budget was sub £10k, then, yeah, you'd want to go 986 to get a nice one.

[Shedding]

Dave200 said:

Shedding said:

I did quite a lot of reading before choosing a 2.7 987.1 Cayman. It seems to be about as reliable as you can get for a limited budget. Bigger IMS, unlikely to bore score plus the 5 speed manual scrapes into the lower road tax bracket (with some exceptions). I'm not convinced that any savings you make on buying a 986 wouldn't end up being spent on extra maintenance.

I really like a convertible, so haven't considered the Cayman to date.

I get that. What I was trying to say is that if you buy the right 987 (Boxster or Cayman), you can hopefully avoid some of the big mechanical issues of the 986 (and some 987) which if you are on limited budget, is important.