Another - How can I get into racing question......
Discussion
Sorry guys, I know this has been asked a gazzillion times but I'd appreciate a bit of advice.
Been thinking (again!! - which is never good
) about racing something. Done a fair bit of C100 karting over the last few years, which is great, but want to move into cars.
I have a couple of criteria though (well OK three things!):
1. Must be circuit based - no sprints/hill climbs etc.
2. 'Cost effective' - i.e. cheap to buy/run/repair and enter (I know - no such thing in
motorsport....)
3. Limited mods to vehicle - to keep cost down and racing close (will probably be at
the back though
)
Haven't quite worked out my budget per year yet, but would appreciate some ball park figures for different categories.
Race series I have looked into so far are:
1. MG Metro Cup - cars seem cheap'ish to buy etc.
2. MAX5 Series (MX5's) - High cost of car??
3. Formula 750 - can't find any accurate costs
Any PH'ers compete in the above? - if so how are you finding it etc.
Cheers in adavance.
Chris
Been thinking (again!! - which is never good
) about racing something. Done a fair bit of C100 karting over the last few years, which is great, but want to move into cars. I have a couple of criteria though (well OK three things!):
1. Must be circuit based - no sprints/hill climbs etc.
2. 'Cost effective' - i.e. cheap to buy/run/repair and enter (I know - no such thing in
motorsport....)
3. Limited mods to vehicle - to keep cost down and racing close (will probably be at
the back though
) Haven't quite worked out my budget per year yet, but would appreciate some ball park figures for different categories.
Race series I have looked into so far are:
1. MG Metro Cup - cars seem cheap'ish to buy etc.
2. MAX5 Series (MX5's) - High cost of car??
3. Formula 750 - can't find any accurate costs
Any PH'ers compete in the above? - if so how are you finding it etc.
Cheers in adavance.
Chris
Ginettas are simular to Max5s I guess.. .. but a TAD more expensive.
just to give u an idea . you can pick up used a Ginetta G20 race spec for around £9000.
entry fee (for ginetta championship) £500
or (for local sports race) £200
fuel £100
the only two other major expenditures is "team" and damage.. if you run the car yourself, then great.. and stay on the black stuff !!!
(im just having mine re built after hittin a tyre wall at combe at over 80 !!)
.but generally speaking , because the ginettas are basically a KIT CAR, they quite quick n cheap to mend / repair
Oh & AND TRAVEL & ACCOMODATION
hope this helps ?
just to give u an idea . you can pick up used a Ginetta G20 race spec for around £9000.
entry fee (for ginetta championship) £500
or (for local sports race) £200
fuel £100
the only two other major expenditures is "team" and damage.. if you run the car yourself, then great.. and stay on the black stuff !!!
(im just having mine re built after hittin a tyre wall at combe at over 80 !!)
.but generally speaking , because the ginettas are basically a KIT CAR, they quite quick n cheap to mend / repair Oh & AND TRAVEL & ACCOMODATION
hope this helps ?
Dunlop Tuscan Challenge, no seriously ok so a Class A full on AJP powered tuscan will cost a few beer tokens but I know of a very nice class C tasmin that has been bought this week for the princley sum of 3grand..
The tasmins are tough old beasts and will take plenty of knocks
quicker than both the metros and the max5's and the porsche 924's but slower than the ginetta's and the tasmins are cheap as chips at the moment..
If you used list 1b dunlop treaded tyres you can get away with a single set. slicks your going to need at least 2 sets
I ran my Class B tuscan ( rv8) on about 6 grand last season and a single set of tyres. thats all in with a gearbox rebuild, engine refresh, set of dampers and fuel, entry fees etc...
race entry fees are fairly consistant through out most series going from 150 for a single race at a smaller circuit to 260 for a double header somewhere else.
Testing is somthing else to budget for and will cost from 85 quid for a wednesday morning at mallory to over 200 at some of the other circuits,
G
The tasmins are tough old beasts and will take plenty of knocks
quicker than both the metros and the max5's and the porsche 924's but slower than the ginetta's and the tasmins are cheap as chips at the moment..
If you used list 1b dunlop treaded tyres you can get away with a single set. slicks your going to need at least 2 sets
I ran my Class B tuscan ( rv8) on about 6 grand last season and a single set of tyres. thats all in with a gearbox rebuild, engine refresh, set of dampers and fuel, entry fees etc...
race entry fees are fairly consistant through out most series going from 150 for a single race at a smaller circuit to 260 for a double header somewhere else.
Testing is somthing else to budget for and will cost from 85 quid for a wednesday morning at mallory to over 200 at some of the other circuits,
G
Graham said:
Dunlop Tuscan Challenge, no seriously ok so a Class A full on AJP powered tuscan will cost a few beer tokens but I know of a very nice class C tasmin that has been bought this week for the princley sum of 3grand..
The tasmins are tough old beasts and will take plenty of knocks
quicker than both the metros and the max5's and the porsche 924's but slower than the ginetta's and the tasmins are cheap as chips at the moment..
If you used list 1b dunlop treaded tyres you can get away with a single set. slicks your going to need at least 2 sets
I ran my Class B tuscan ( rv8) on about 6 grand last season and a single set of tyres. thats all in with a gearbox rebuild, engine refresh, set of dampers and fuel, entry fees etc...
race entry fees are fairly consistant through out most series going from 150 for a single race at a smaller circuit to 260 for a double header somewhere else.
Testing is somthing else to budget for and will cost from 85 quid for a wednesday morning at mallory to over 200 at some of the other circuits,
G
The tasmins are tough old beasts and will take plenty of knocks
quicker than both the metros and the max5's and the porsche 924's but slower than the ginetta's and the tasmins are cheap as chips at the moment..
If you used list 1b dunlop treaded tyres you can get away with a single set. slicks your going to need at least 2 sets
I ran my Class B tuscan ( rv8) on about 6 grand last season and a single set of tyres. thats all in with a gearbox rebuild, engine refresh, set of dampers and fuel, entry fees etc...
race entry fees are fairly consistant through out most series going from 150 for a single race at a smaller circuit to 260 for a double header somewhere else.
Testing is somthing else to budget for and will cost from 85 quid for a wednesday morning at mallory to over 200 at some of the other circuits,
G
Did think about the Tasmins - as the price of cars seems to be coming down.
But I get the feeling that I'd spend most of my time looking in my mirror and getting out of the way - can't really compete with the V8 Saggy, Cerbera's and the Thorpedo.
What I want is close racing on as an equal level as possible - and a lack of 'Cheque book' racing.
Looks like I might have to stick with C100!
Chris
How about autograss? its 1/4 mile oval racing on a loose surface with grids of 10 cars. extremely fun and a range of classes from stock saloons to unlimited specials (twin bikes, supercharged v8s etc) prices of cars range from £500 for a stock class 1 or 2, to £10,000 for a top of the range modified special. theres about 6000 competitors country wide and about 60 clubs. it realy is britains best kept motorsport seceret.
try www.autograssreview.com
try www.autograssreview.com
I've done some LMA Euro Saloon rounds, great fun with a wide variety of cars, plenty of class options either running on slicks or List 1a or 1b tyres. There are some quick cars running and you must keep an eye in the mirrors for ex Touring Cars etc. but not as much as in a Sports and Saloon type series.
The CTCRC Pre '93 Series looks ok and a few drivers with ex Super Coupe cars are looking at it, so £2.5 to £3k for a 216Gti or CRX should give some good close racing with bombproof mechanicals and running on road legal tyres for economy.
The CTCRC Pre '93 Series looks ok and a few drivers with ex Super Coupe cars are looking at it, so £2.5 to £3k for a 216Gti or CRX should give some good close racing with bombproof mechanicals and running on road legal tyres for economy.
woody said:
But I get the feeling that I'd spend most of my time looking in my mirror and getting out of the way - can't really compete with the V8 Saggy, Cerbera's and the Thorpedo.
thats always going to be an issue with any multi-class series, although you can get a similar effect in a single class series.
with another car being sold this week, hopefully the class C should start to grow and be a good place to start racing. most people sand a good chance of ending up watching their mirrors when they first start in any series,
good luck with what ever you choose, and if you have any direct questions feel free to pm me
G
Ginettas would be my vote. Cheap parts, dead easy to set up and good parity between the cars. My team manager, John Griffiths, used to race them and Jonny Hyde, son of GT racer Steve, has bought one this year and is doing really well for a guy in only his second ever year of racing. I got involved a little when our hot shoe Phil Keen hired one for a race at Brands a couple of months back and I enjoyed a bit of hands-on tinkering for a change, instead of my usual role - so they're basic enough even for me to do the spannering, but that's what you need when prepping a car after work in the week.
They offer huge grids and terrific dicing too, so you'll always be racing against someone, even if you're not quite on the ultimate pace.
They offer huge grids and terrific dicing too, so you'll always be racing against someone, even if you're not quite on the ultimate pace.
If you want cheap, long term fair and close racing then there are only two or three series options. MaX5 as you said, the Seloc BMW series and Ford Fiestas. This is only my humble opinion of course.
MaX5 is probably best in my opinion only because the cars all use the same roll cages and dampers, unlike the Seloc cars in which this is open so anyone with a bit of cash and half an idea about tuning race cars properly can spend to get a better car. However, MaX5 cars have no roof, the standard of car preparation is mostly very poor and the cars as a result vary allot in performance. However in most club formula you will find this to a degree.
Series like the Ford Fiesta Championship also offer reasonable value but I think they race on slicks which instantly ups the cost of competition. Otherwise they seem good.
All these series are backed up by huge second hand car parts supplies making them all cheap as chips to repair in the grand scheme of things.
There are of course loads of other random club series but grids go up and down like a Mayalsian hooker. I am a big believer in the better the competition you face the better ultimately you turn out to be as a driver. After all if you just want to drive round a race circit, do track days. Its allot cheaper.
MaX5 is probably best in my opinion only because the cars all use the same roll cages and dampers, unlike the Seloc cars in which this is open so anyone with a bit of cash and half an idea about tuning race cars properly can spend to get a better car. However, MaX5 cars have no roof, the standard of car preparation is mostly very poor and the cars as a result vary allot in performance. However in most club formula you will find this to a degree.
Series like the Ford Fiesta Championship also offer reasonable value but I think they race on slicks which instantly ups the cost of competition. Otherwise they seem good.
All these series are backed up by huge second hand car parts supplies making them all cheap as chips to repair in the grand scheme of things.
There are of course loads of other random club series but grids go up and down like a Mayalsian hooker. I am a big believer in the better the competition you face the better ultimately you turn out to be as a driver. After all if you just want to drive round a race circit, do track days. Its allot cheaper.
A (biased) vote for the Production BMW Championship here. www.selocmotorsport.com/
Buy a built car for c. £3,500
Despite Simons comments above, the regs are limited enough that driver skill often outweighs any set up advantage.
Typical entry fees - c. £270 double header.
Great paddock atmosphere & everyone willing to help others out
Relatively cheap consumables (inc tyres)
Why not come and have a look at Oulton on 5th Aug.
Buy a built car for c. £3,500
Despite Simons comments above, the regs are limited enough that driver skill often outweighs any set up advantage.
Typical entry fees - c. £270 double header.
Great paddock atmosphere & everyone willing to help others out
Relatively cheap consumables (inc tyres)
Why not come and have a look at Oulton on 5th Aug.
Edited by juliann on Saturday 1st July 06:24
I have to agree with Simon, Max5 is a great championship.
Race fees vary from £160 - £270 for a double header, tyres are £50 a corner and you should get about 4 meetings including testing from a set.
You can buy a car for about £5.5k and they seem to be very reliable. Everyone is very helful if you do need help. If you run the car yourself and camp, you could run the car for a full season for about £5k - thats all in for 15 races and some testing!
Race fees vary from £160 - £270 for a double header, tyres are £50 a corner and you should get about 4 meetings including testing from a set.
You can buy a car for about £5.5k and they seem to be very reliable. Everyone is very helful if you do need help. If you run the car yourself and camp, you could run the car for a full season for about £5k - thats all in for 15 races and some testing!
Caterham Graduates...? (Graduates, SuperGrads & MegaGrads)
Annual membership fee - £250, for which you get breakfast, lunch & afternoon tea & cakes! Plus 'technical support' for all entrants, on the basis that if you break or bend something, at the meeting, then it is fixed by mechanics employed by the club - labour all f.o.c. ...you head gasket goes in qualifying then you grab some breakfast while the car is fixed, then out to race... cost to you £25 for a head gasket!! Plus trophies for all classes and 'best improvers' also.
Cars - depends on which class you opt for, however the residual value is very good... I know someone that bought a car for £8500 and sold it the following year for £10k as a championship winning car... :-)
Entry fees - pretty much the same wherever you choose to race.
Rounds - this year; Combe, Silverstone, Snetterton, Cadwell, Oulton, Anglesey, Pembrey, Knockhill (supporting TOCA), Thruxton and to finish off - Spa Francorchamps!!! Do as many or as little as you wish.
Race regs - all sealed and one nominated engine builder - those with the deepest pockets don't always win! Race teams not allowed, to keep costs down. Tyres - maybe two sets all year including testing & racing - but regs limit it to 3 sets, again to keep costs down.
Club run by members with no financial gain, changes to regs only after consultation with race members... if they propose something that potentially turns away existing racers then they just don't do it!
Excellent social side... over 125members in 2006 over 3 classes, ensures large grids (65 on one grid at Spa!!) and qualification races, depending on the circuit & max grid sizes.
Don't forget to allow for beer & curry costs at each venue!!
(I raced with them for 3years... and might be heading back there next year, after a break for a couple of years from racing)
Annual membership fee - £250, for which you get breakfast, lunch & afternoon tea & cakes! Plus 'technical support' for all entrants, on the basis that if you break or bend something, at the meeting, then it is fixed by mechanics employed by the club - labour all f.o.c. ...you head gasket goes in qualifying then you grab some breakfast while the car is fixed, then out to race... cost to you £25 for a head gasket!! Plus trophies for all classes and 'best improvers' also.
Cars - depends on which class you opt for, however the residual value is very good... I know someone that bought a car for £8500 and sold it the following year for £10k as a championship winning car... :-)
Entry fees - pretty much the same wherever you choose to race.
Rounds - this year; Combe, Silverstone, Snetterton, Cadwell, Oulton, Anglesey, Pembrey, Knockhill (supporting TOCA), Thruxton and to finish off - Spa Francorchamps!!! Do as many or as little as you wish.
Race regs - all sealed and one nominated engine builder - those with the deepest pockets don't always win! Race teams not allowed, to keep costs down. Tyres - maybe two sets all year including testing & racing - but regs limit it to 3 sets, again to keep costs down.
Club run by members with no financial gain, changes to regs only after consultation with race members... if they propose something that potentially turns away existing racers then they just don't do it!
Excellent social side... over 125members in 2006 over 3 classes, ensures large grids (65 on one grid at Spa!!) and qualification races, depending on the circuit & max grid sizes.
Don't forget to allow for beer & curry costs at each venue!!
(I raced with them for 3years... and might be heading back there next year, after a break for a couple of years from racing)
Buy my sons stock hatch here........
www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=45211
Limited mods keep costs down and it a very competative car.......
www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=45211
Limited mods keep costs down and it a very competative car.......
The Dunlop Track & Race Cars Saloons series is south east based, has cheaper entries than just about anything (typically £175 for a double header). Cars as modified as you want, or can afford, no championship registration fee, and you don't need to be a club "racing" member, just a member of a recognised club, like the Borough19 club even....
You can run on road tyres, or slicks, and anything from a bog-standard roadgoing car to a Thundersaloon is allowed.
If your name isn't Rod Birley, you're not allowed to win, however (only joking - nobody has beaten him.......yet!)
You can run on road tyres, or slicks, and anything from a bog-standard roadgoing car to a Thundersaloon is allowed.
If your name isn't Rod Birley, you're not allowed to win, however (only joking - nobody has beaten him.......yet!)
thunderbelmont said:
The Dunlop Track & Race Cars Saloons series is south east based, has cheaper entries than just about anything (typically £175 for a double header). Cars as modified as you want, or can afford, no championship registration fee, and you don't need to be a club "racing" member, just a member of a recognised club, like the Borough19 club even....
You can run on road tyres, or slicks, and anything from a bog-standard roadgoing car to a Thundersaloon is allowed.
If your name isn't Rod Birley, you're not allowed to win, however (only joking - nobody has beaten him.......yet!)
You can run on road tyres, or slicks, and anything from a bog-standard roadgoing car to a Thundersaloon is allowed.
If your name isn't Rod Birley, you're not allowed to win, however (only joking - nobody has beaten him.......yet!)
Sounds to me like a cheque book racing series if there was one! No wonder only one guy keeps winning.
juliann said:
A (biased) vote for the Production BMW Championship here. www.selocmotorsport.com/
Buy a built car for c. £3,500
Despite Simons comments above, the regs are limited enough that driver skill often outweighs any set up advantage.
Typical entry fees - c. £270 double header.
Great paddock atmosphere & everyone willing to help others out
Relatively cheap consumables (inc tyres)
Why not come and have a look at Oulton on 5th Aug.
Buy a built car for c. £3,500
Despite Simons comments above, the regs are limited enough that driver skill often outweighs any set up advantage.
Typical entry fees - c. £270 double header.
Great paddock atmosphere & everyone willing to help others out
Relatively cheap consumables (inc tyres)
Why not come and have a look at Oulton on 5th Aug.
Edited by juliann on Saturday 1st July 06:24
I'll second that Young Juliann. This is my first year in the SELOC Production BMW Championship and it's full grids, close racing, a great crack and ..relatively..cheap racing. Our control tyres from Toyo come in at roughly £45 each, parts from BMW breakers are cheap and plentiful. You can run a 318 / 320 either a 2 door, 4 door or like me, a Touring.
Good circuits - Brands, Thruxton, Combe, Oulton etc etc.
We are also eligible for other series run by the Classic Touring Car Racing Club and this coming Saturday we're racing Classic Touring Cars at Silverstone - 3 races for £95 all in. You won't find many series that competitive on cost. Why not come down on Saturday? I've got plenty of spare paddock tickets.
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