F355 -v- 360M

[sleep envy]

Just been teasing myself with the classified ads and have noticed how the 360s have become great value.

I've driven a few 355s and whilst they look gorgeous and sound even better, the build quality did make me a bit worried so I played it safe and stuck my money into a 993 RS.

I've had a quick nosey round a few 360s but haven't managed to spend a reasonable amount of time looking over a car.

In terms of build is there any difference between the two and also are the running costs comparable?

[Murph7355]

Running costs are similar. Arguably the build on the 360 was a bit better. But....

The 355 is hardly a basket case (if you but the right car). Not as solid as a 993 granted, though few things are. But if you account for the known issues with a 355 in your running costs, they are actually decent enough cars build wise.

[tony h]

build quality's night and day IMO. 355 is starting to show it's age and interior was never one of it's strong points ; rubberised surfaces become sticky and leather facings are known to shrink.360s are marginally cheaper to service, esp on belts , but prob more for F1 clutch replacement.

[ade355]

The various 355 design flaws and issues (and there are a few! ) are very well documented and reasonably easy to check for during a professional inspection, and leafing through the cars documentation. Someone will have taken several hits somewhere along the car's life.

Any 360 problems are either not as well documented.... or there are simply fewer problems due to better design or build quality! Personally from driving the 360 I agree that the interior especially feels much better nailed together.

TBH just get any car inspected and you then have some peace of mind.

[Murph7355]

tony h said:

...rubberised surfaces become sticky and leather facings are known to shrink....

On the former, mine have never done this. Admittedly I have a late-ish car, but I think much of it is down to how these surfaces are treated (i.e. what they're cleaned with and also what you chuck on them, e.g. keys etc). Though that said, mine do have a few marks on from my godson's finger nails!

On the latter, my airbag panel has finally done it after I was stupid and left it out in some serious sun this summer for a few days. To re-cover it is likely to cost 100 quid (which in the overall scheme of owning one of these is hardly bankrupting).

The materials used on the 360 interior are different, but I'm not wholly convinced the difference is night and day...

[KB_S1]

[quote=Murph7355On the latter, my airbag panel has finally done it after I was stupid and left it out in some serious sun this summer for a few days. To re-cover it is likely to cost 100 quid (which in the overall scheme of owning one of these is hardly bankrupting).

[/quote]


Are you not better of just replacing the whole whel with a pretty non-airbag wheel from Nardi or Momo?

[ferrarispider]

My interea has never failed either. No sticky bits and no ill fitting leather.

[tony h]

Murph, take them rose tinted specs off , fella .

355 common faults-
buttresses cracking
manifolds cracking
hairline cracks on the aluminimum heads of the fuel pipes from overtightening
Lambda sensors and CAT related issues causing the infamous 'Check Engine' light to appear!
Spider roof needs hydraulic fluid topped up
Leather shrinkage around the instrument cowl
sticky throttle peddle
cats
exhaust by pass
clutch plate and cover and bearing
bubbling of centre console/rubberised trim
F1 gear indicator LED's failing
front fuse box getting wet

[sleep envy]

Any common faults for the 360 you can shed light on pease Tony?

[tony h]

to even things up here are 360 common faults;

on early cars, probs with F1 software, cam variators and gearbox synchromeshes and con rod failures. Oil pressure sender unit, oil pump , F1 pump ,oil temp guage, wishbone/bush rattles, ball joints
, weak battery.

[sleep envy]

tony h said:

cam variators and gearbox synchromeshes and con rod failures

these sound really expensive - what would be the ball park cost of repairs/replacement?

[tony h]

sleep envy said:

tony h said:

cam variators and gearbox synchromeshes and con rod failures

these sound really expensive - what would be the ball park cost of repairs/replacement?

they were all factory recalls i think

Edited by tony h on Tuesday 19th September 22:18

[Murph7355]

I don't wear gigs Tony Though I am obviously somewhat partisan.

tony h said:

buttresses cracking

Yup. And no permanent fix that I'm aware of either. 5-800 quid to fix every few years. The price you pay for lovely flying buttresses versus pudding basin curves

tony h said:

manifolds cracking

I'm asking for trouble, but mine are 7yrs old and OK. If they go, I'll replace for good items that won't ever break (i.e. non-OEM). Call it 2-3k if they both go.

tony h said:

hairline cracks on the aluminimum heads of the fuel pipes from overtightening

Not restricted to 355s. Any nuts knacker if they're overtightened. Even CS ones Avoid shoddy servicing shops.
I

tony h said:

Lambda sensors and CAT related issues causing the infamous 'Check Engine' light to appear!

What cats Oh yeah, those things that stifle one of the most glorious automotive noises ever.

tony h said:

Spider roof needs hydraulic fluid topped up

If you will insist on buying a Spider, expect to have to keep an eye on more complications...

tony h said:

Leather shrinkage around the instrument cowl

Yup, but as mentioned mine hasn't happened (yet) other than the (passenger) airbag cover. And I can directly attribute that to my own fault. Cheap fixes regardless (that will hopefully be permanent if decent glue is used).

tony h said:

sticky throttle peddle

Have had this I'll grant you. The linkage isn't the best, but it can be serviced without hideous cost. And this isn't only a 355/Ferrari issue either.

tony h said:

cats

What cats If you really must though, you can get better quality (non-OEM) replacements (2k or so?).

tony h said:

exhaust by pass

Gets rattly but can be fixed if mine's anything to go by (also seems to come and go and is hardly fatal to the car).

tony h said:

clutch plate and cover and bearing

What about them? They need replacing every now and then, but much will depend on how you drive the car...In 27k or so miles I've put two clutches in mine (so it's had three in 37k or so miles). Both times mine's been done they still had 25% wear to go (don;t ask - again, I'm stupid).

tony h said:

bubbling of centre console/rubberised trim

Already mentioned earlier. Perhaps later cars were better? But being careful with it must help...putting the wrong cleaner on it is a killer I think...

tony h said:

F1 gear indicator LED's failing

Wouldn't advocate buying an F1 355 personally. A few expensive additional parts to go wrong (that do go wrong). Replacement, better quality LED clusters are available. Non-OEM "surprisingly".

tony h said:

front fuse box getting wet

So quit chucking water on it Or was this when your Spider's roof got stuck open?

Seriously, my boot has started leaking though. Think I know why (worn sponge seal round the aircon inlet).



I'm by no means forgiving Ferrari for some stupid design flaws in some of the above (why they didn't just make the roof manual, use decent materials for the sill plates (which you left off your list), found a better way to seal the buttresses etc I don't know), but there are a few key points with everything you've mentioned:

1) Buy the right car so the chances of these faults are minimised.
2) Keep it properly serviced and keep on top of any and all problems - don't put off dealing with them.
3) Ensure you have a good servicing "pot" to deal with hassles. Get to know the cars and typical costs.
4) Whilst you don't have to pamper them (mine gets used in all weathers as you know, and is left outside often), be sensitive to the weaker areas...

The trade off is one of the most beautiful cars ever made, that is one of the most intoxicating sound wise and that, when the gears are stirred, is pretty quick.

Night and day to the 360 build wise? I still think that's overstating matters.

Lovely as the 993 is in its own way, I'd rather have a "temperamental" 355 any day as the smiles it gives can't be matched.

PS You also missed the rear dampers - can go. New they're expensive (1.5k-2k to replace both IIRC) but believe they can be rebuilt.

[tony h]

Murph,
smashing reply I would agree that a well sorted and maintained 355 is a joy to own , hell i had one for 5 yrs Having lived with the 355 for that long and had 360 for 8 mths , i really do feel the later model is a huge step fwd in terms of build quality. I'm hoping it's same stella leap in terms of reliability too .

[ferrarispider]

tony h said:

Murph, take them rose tinted specs off , fella .

355 common faults-
buttresses cracking
manifolds cracking
hairline cracks on the aluminimum heads of the fuel pipes from overtightening
Lambda sensors and CAT related issues causing the infamous 'Check Engine' light to appear!
Spider roof needs hydraulic fluid topped up
Leather shrinkage around the instrument cowl
sticky throttle peddle
cats
exhaust by pass
clutch plate and cover and bearing
bubbling of centre console/rubberised trim
F1 gear indicator LED's failing
front fuse box getting wet

Nope my 1995 car has never had any of them problems And about the roof, its routine to check and top up even on a 360 spider.....you are a bitter man....sorry bitter LITTLE man LOL!!

Edited by ferrarispider on Wednesday 20th September 09:42

[tony h]

Chaz,
you must be only 355 owner in world never to have experienced any of those probs I pray you never have roof agg as it will drive you mad . Not bitter, as overall my 355 ownership was gr8

[ade355]

Regardless of all this chat , I've seen firsthand a few 360 bills that went over £10,000 FACT. The largest bill I had on my 355 was over £10,000 FACT. GET AN INSPECTION, DONT BUY A CAR THAT IS DUE WORK, BUY A GOOD CAR... nothing else matters!!!!

[ferrarispider]

tony h said:

Chaz,
you must be only 355 owner in world never to have experienced any of those probs I pray you never have roof agg as it will drive you mad . Not bitter, as overall my 355 ownership was gr8

Yea watch this space

[Murph7355]

tony h said:

Murph,
smashing reply I would agree that a well sorted and maintained 355 is a joy to own , hell i had one for 5 yrs Having lived with the 355 for that long and had 360 for 8 mths , i really do feel the later model is a huge step fwd in terms of build quality. I'm hoping it's same stella leap in terms of reliability too .

Why thank you

Wasn't your 355 a 95/96?

And isn't your CS an 04/05?

Sleep Envy - do some research on the available cars and buy one. You'll love it (if you buy the right car - and let's face it, any marque has its wrong uns, and if you end up with one you'll hate the marque). After all, it took a CS not a lowly Modena () to lure Tony from his iffy build quality 355...