Difference between handling and grip?
Discussion
Opinions seem to be that 5 to 5.5" wide 10s with minmal offset are the best handling. But wider track / tyres etc offer more grip. Just curious what the difference between grip and handling is. Is it that, like in the early days of mini competiton an underpowered car could out handle a bigger heavier machine by sliding sideways through the corners but now a 140hp miglia has the power to use 7" wide slicks and loads of grip?
Genuine 6 x 10 minilites have a 15 mm offset and 165 tyres will fit nicely under standard cooper arches. With the right pressures the tyres will grip well and will not roll under heavy cornering. They are also fine for road use. For competition you can not have too much grip at the front of a mini as understeer is alway an issue.
Bearing in mind on the road, you won't be on a corner free, ironed smoothed track. If you run huge offset 7" rims like I did, the steering kicks like hell over bumps, and it handles horribly. I run my mini like a racecar on the road but have 5" inset wheels. It is jiggly and horrible, yet grips really well and doesn't have horrible steering.
Having said, it is stripped out and rowdy so I may as well enjoy it.
I reckon I've got my car set up the best I can have it on 5" tyres.
Lowered so that the wheels are concentric with the arches
Dry Conversion with Hilos, Spax set to pretty hard front soft rear.
Rear 14mm anti roll bar.
1/32" tow out front, rear set dead ahead.
-3 deg camber front -1.8 rear
Heavy duty everything.
Looking at getting an LSD to get the power on the road, might hurt my precious steering but I'll get to grips with it. I'd never run silly offset wheels again without a steering damper of sorts, which I wouldn't want to fit.
Having said, it is stripped out and rowdy so I may as well enjoy it.
I reckon I've got my car set up the best I can have it on 5" tyres.
Lowered so that the wheels are concentric with the arches
Dry Conversion with Hilos, Spax set to pretty hard front soft rear.
Rear 14mm anti roll bar.
1/32" tow out front, rear set dead ahead.
-3 deg camber front -1.8 rear
Heavy duty everything.
Looking at getting an LSD to get the power on the road, might hurt my precious steering but I'll get to grips with it. I'd never run silly offset wheels again without a steering damper of sorts, which I wouldn't want to fit.
Hmm, had a blazing row with somebody about this a while back, so I'll keep my response short!! lol.
To me:
Grip is how fast a car will go round a corner (or brake, accelerate etc.) It takes no account of the way it does it, it's purely a lateral G figure.
Handling is theoretically unlinked. Its all about balance (for exmaple understeer/oversteer tendancy) communication through the steering and other controls and finally, precision - how it reacts to your inputs.
My analogy is, say you have a mini on skinny tyres, perfectly balanced and responding to every control input you make going round a corner at 50 mph, which will predictably and entertainingly side as soon as you near the limit. That would be better than some nasty twitchy fat tyred car that would go round as if on rails at 55mph, but spit you out with no warning the moment you reached 55.0001mph!!!
I suppose you could say one end of the car has to go first, therefore they are fundamentally linked, but I reckon (to paraphrase an old saying) grip is how fast a car goes round a corner, hrandling is how it goes round it fast!
To me:
Grip is how fast a car will go round a corner (or brake, accelerate etc.) It takes no account of the way it does it, it's purely a lateral G figure.
Handling is theoretically unlinked. Its all about balance (for exmaple understeer/oversteer tendancy) communication through the steering and other controls and finally, precision - how it reacts to your inputs.
My analogy is, say you have a mini on skinny tyres, perfectly balanced and responding to every control input you make going round a corner at 50 mph, which will predictably and entertainingly side as soon as you near the limit. That would be better than some nasty twitchy fat tyred car that would go round as if on rails at 55mph, but spit you out with no warning the moment you reached 55.0001mph!!!
I suppose you could say one end of the car has to go first, therefore they are fundamentally linked, but I reckon (to paraphrase an old saying) grip is how fast a car goes round a corner, hrandling is how it goes round it fast!
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