Overheating - the saga continues
Discussion
Are you ready for the next instalment of "The Saga of Jon's First TVR"? 
In previous episodes you heard how I had a leaking hood and water-damaged / rotten carpets behind the passenger seat that I am eternally embarrassed not to have noticed before I bought the car. You've also heard about overheating / coolant problems that turned out to be failed otter switch and took Hawthorns 3 weeks to "fix". You then heard how after that my expansion tank was emptying itself, even after I replaced the expansion tank cap.
Well, in what I hope to be the final episode in this saga, yesterday lunchtime I dumped even more coolant and had a minor overheat. I was worried whether or not I'd make it home, and sure enough at 17:30 the car let me down big time and left me stranded on the side of the road waiting for the RAC to come and get me (and who incidentally left me waiting for THREE HOURS!). All credit to Theale Breakdown who the RAC eventually subcontracted to come and get me as they dropped me home and then said that they would keep my car overnight in their garages and deliver it to Hawthorns this morning for me.
There is a silver lining to this though, as I phoned Hawthorns at 17:40 (just after I phoned for the RAC) and got talking to none other than Rod Barrett. Now I must confess I had forgotten that he was MD of Hawthorns, and so happily nattered away with him about his racing in the Tuscans, the recent Silverstone race which I and my partner had attended and racing in general. Conversation then moved on to my problems and the fact that this was not the first time my car had overheated. Rod was quite put out that Hawthorns had let me down so far, and that although he usually didn't get involved in the day-to-day running company, he would "wander down the corridor and let loose bolts of lightening in the appropriate directions to get this sorted out". Which was nice.
Being a little more clued up on overheating thanks to yourselves and also Steve's book, I can tell you that the fans were running fine and that there is air in the system as I got the "coffee percolator" bubbling noise much earlier than my last overheat - about 110degC rather than 120degC this time. Last time the expansion tank was venting before I got those noises, but this time it was way sooner than that. Perhaps I should insist that the radiator should be replaced under warranty? What does everyone else think?
Before I sign off, please don't start to think that I am a whinger. Although I messed up by buying the first TVR I drove, I did go into TVR ownership with my eyes open. I expected unreliability and got it, but I still love owning a TVR and have no intention of getting rid of it or anything. The car is under warranty and I'm sure that Hawthorns will (eventually) sort everything out and that I'll have many happy years of motoring.
More news as it happens.
Regards
Jon
97R Chimaera 500 (sometimes)
95N Corrado VR6 (gets me to work reliably)
>>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 12th October 09:06
In previous episodes you heard how I had a leaking hood and water-damaged / rotten carpets behind the passenger seat that I am eternally embarrassed not to have noticed before I bought the car. You've also heard about overheating / coolant problems that turned out to be failed otter switch and took Hawthorns 3 weeks to "fix". You then heard how after that my expansion tank was emptying itself, even after I replaced the expansion tank cap.
Well, in what I hope to be the final episode in this saga, yesterday lunchtime I dumped even more coolant and had a minor overheat. I was worried whether or not I'd make it home, and sure enough at 17:30 the car let me down big time and left me stranded on the side of the road waiting for the RAC to come and get me (and who incidentally left me waiting for THREE HOURS!). All credit to Theale Breakdown who the RAC eventually subcontracted to come and get me as they dropped me home and then said that they would keep my car overnight in their garages and deliver it to Hawthorns this morning for me.
There is a silver lining to this though, as I phoned Hawthorns at 17:40 (just after I phoned for the RAC) and got talking to none other than Rod Barrett. Now I must confess I had forgotten that he was MD of Hawthorns, and so happily nattered away with him about his racing in the Tuscans, the recent Silverstone race which I and my partner had attended and racing in general. Conversation then moved on to my problems and the fact that this was not the first time my car had overheated. Rod was quite put out that Hawthorns had let me down so far, and that although he usually didn't get involved in the day-to-day running company, he would "wander down the corridor and let loose bolts of lightening in the appropriate directions to get this sorted out". Which was nice.
Being a little more clued up on overheating thanks to yourselves and also Steve's book, I can tell you that the fans were running fine and that there is air in the system as I got the "coffee percolator" bubbling noise much earlier than my last overheat - about 110degC rather than 120degC this time. Last time the expansion tank was venting before I got those noises, but this time it was way sooner than that. Perhaps I should insist that the radiator should be replaced under warranty? What does everyone else think?
Before I sign off, please don't start to think that I am a whinger. Although I messed up by buying the first TVR I drove, I did go into TVR ownership with my eyes open. I expected unreliability and got it, but I still love owning a TVR and have no intention of getting rid of it or anything. The car is under warranty and I'm sure that Hawthorns will (eventually) sort everything out and that I'll have many happy years of motoring.
More news as it happens.
Regards
Jon
97R Chimaera 500 (sometimes)
95N Corrado VR6 (gets me to work reliably)
>>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 12th October 09:06
Jon
I have recently had a new radiator fitted and was using a lot of coolant, which was caused by air in the system. Although the temp never went over 100 degrees
1. do you get a gurgling/bubbling sound from the footwell when you first drive it. If so, that would indicate air in the system
2, try putting less coolant into the expansion tank, although Steves book & TVR say 2 inches from the top, there are earlier threads that show on a car by car basis, filling it half way or less stops the coolant being expelled
3, turn the heaters on full, take the blue cap off the expansion tank, start the car & let it idle and see if it bubbles the coolant or expels it (see thread earlier this year). This will also indicate air pockets. be careful
4, Steve Heaths book also has instructions on how to bleed and refill the coolant system
5, Get the lower temp Otter switch fitted, or a fan override switch to kick the fans in earlier.
6, Try moving or reducing the size of the number plate to increase air flow through the rad.
7, Hope that the dealership sort it for you.
Good luck
I have recently had a new radiator fitted and was using a lot of coolant, which was caused by air in the system. Although the temp never went over 100 degrees
1. do you get a gurgling/bubbling sound from the footwell when you first drive it. If so, that would indicate air in the system
2, try putting less coolant into the expansion tank, although Steves book & TVR say 2 inches from the top, there are earlier threads that show on a car by car basis, filling it half way or less stops the coolant being expelled
3, turn the heaters on full, take the blue cap off the expansion tank, start the car & let it idle and see if it bubbles the coolant or expels it (see thread earlier this year). This will also indicate air pockets. be careful
4, Steve Heaths book also has instructions on how to bleed and refill the coolant system
5, Get the lower temp Otter switch fitted, or a fan override switch to kick the fans in earlier.
6, Try moving or reducing the size of the number plate to increase air flow through the rad.
7, Hope that the dealership sort it for you.
Good luck
Item 7 is number 1 at the moment as the car is under warranty, so I'd be expecting the dealers to sort it out.
However, now that I am paranoid about overheating (who wouldn't be after what I've gone through?) I will be fitting the LED & fan override switch when I get the car back.
I may also consider a larger radiator, depending on cost and warranty invalidation.
Regards
Jon
However, now that I am paranoid about overheating (who wouldn't be after what I've gone through?) I will be fitting the LED & fan override switch when I get the car back.
I may also consider a larger radiator, depending on cost and warranty invalidation.
Regards
Jon
Hi john,
There really is no need for a Chimp to overheat. I know that people say it's a fact of life but it really isn't if the system is properly bled, has no air ingression points (loose hose connections sometimes don't actually leak but they can suck air in as the system cools) and topped up to the correct level.
I had similar problems on my early 4.3 Chim. Three dealers couldn't get it right!
In the end I did the following.
1, With everything cold I tightened all jubilee clips on all hoses in both the cooling and heating/ventilation systems.
2, Set heater controls to max hot
3, Took expansion tank cap off and started engine.
4, left car to idle for 1 hour, revving from time to time to make sure it got really really heat soaked - ie, not just coolant hot, but oils, ancillaries, hoses and everything.
5, Wearing asbestos gloves, and with wifey revving it up and down to 4000rpm I squeezed and jiggled all the hoses to dislodge any airpockets.
6, with engine still running top up the expansion cahmber to no more than two thirds full - too much and it will blow off! If it's up to the brim already, syphon some off carefully!
7, put expansion cap back on and go for long hard drive keeping heater on max if you can stand it
8, Do not touch system again till you allow it to cool thoroughly (over night) and check level in the morning.
If there is a little "suck" sound as you open the cap then your system is good. (its hard to hear this sometime so don't worry too much if you don't hear it) The level in the tank will be lower but will probably be correct for the car. Remember this level cos if on the next test drive it doesn't overheat then you can be sure thats where it needs to be in future. When they are filled too high the caps blow off or the rad pops and the temp soars thereby exacerbating the problem!
9 retest drive and have lots of fun.
Assuming you don't have a faulty water pump seal or blocked rad I will be amazed if that doesn't cure the over heat- it did for me.
Cheers
Andy - now with a 400se,
There really is no need for a Chimp to overheat. I know that people say it's a fact of life but it really isn't if the system is properly bled, has no air ingression points (loose hose connections sometimes don't actually leak but they can suck air in as the system cools) and topped up to the correct level.
I had similar problems on my early 4.3 Chim. Three dealers couldn't get it right!
In the end I did the following.
1, With everything cold I tightened all jubilee clips on all hoses in both the cooling and heating/ventilation systems.
2, Set heater controls to max hot
3, Took expansion tank cap off and started engine.
4, left car to idle for 1 hour, revving from time to time to make sure it got really really heat soaked - ie, not just coolant hot, but oils, ancillaries, hoses and everything.
5, Wearing asbestos gloves, and with wifey revving it up and down to 4000rpm I squeezed and jiggled all the hoses to dislodge any airpockets.
6, with engine still running top up the expansion cahmber to no more than two thirds full - too much and it will blow off! If it's up to the brim already, syphon some off carefully!
7, put expansion cap back on and go for long hard drive keeping heater on max if you can stand it
8, Do not touch system again till you allow it to cool thoroughly (over night) and check level in the morning.
If there is a little "suck" sound as you open the cap then your system is good. (its hard to hear this sometime so don't worry too much if you don't hear it) The level in the tank will be lower but will probably be correct for the car. Remember this level cos if on the next test drive it doesn't overheat then you can be sure thats where it needs to be in future. When they are filled too high the caps blow off or the rad pops and the temp soars thereby exacerbating the problem!
9 retest drive and have lots of fun.
Assuming you don't have a faulty water pump seal or blocked rad I will be amazed if that doesn't cure the over heat- it did for me.
Cheers
Andy - now with a 400se,
JonR
I would highly recommend a bigger Rad.
I developed a leak on mine and so had the existing rad recored.
The new core has a larger capacity and has greater air flow. ( larger gap between fins )
Also at the same time I had a small front plate made up which also helps, and looks fantastic !
The result is dramatic, Normal running temp about 70 degrees or just below and standing in traffic about 90. but most of all it cools much faster than before when you get back up to speed.
Total cost for recore £125. bargain !!
Chim400HC
I would highly recommend a bigger Rad.
I developed a leak on mine and so had the existing rad recored.
The new core has a larger capacity and has greater air flow. ( larger gap between fins )
Also at the same time I had a small front plate made up which also helps, and looks fantastic !
The result is dramatic, Normal running temp about 70 degrees or just below and standing in traffic about 90. but most of all it cools much faster than before when you get back up to speed.
Total cost for recore £125. bargain !!
Chim400HC
just a point on the otter override mod, I did mine and think it a really useful and simple idea, I didn't fit the led however as this would indicate the otter/override and fuse was ok but not that the fan was actually running which is the main concern. Im working on something for this.
Word of caution ... Steve's book is of course the bible, but in true biblical style, it is open to interpretation 
. I think there is room for the reader to confuse the swirl pot and the expansion tank in one of his descriptions.
Only the later cars have an expansion tank (its the one at the front of the engine bay on the drivers side with the pressure cap on it). The pressure cap used to be on the swirl pot in earlier cars and there was no expansion tank.
In case there is any confusion, you can't top up the system through the expansion tank. I can understand that you might want to put some fluid in it to stop air being sucked out of it, but nothing more. If you fill it, there will be no room for "expansion" so the system's pressure will go up through the roof.
It is the swirl pot that should be filled to within two inches of the top.
When I've watched a mechanic refill the system, he did it as follows:-
(1) Light cigarette, glue to bottom lip (he waas French)
(2) Lean into engine bay (he didn't have any eyebrows ... I wonder why)
(2) Take top off swirl pot (big brass screw ... need a big screwdriver on its side)
THE ENGINE MUST BE COLD WHEN YOU DO THIS so that the coolant doesn't boil or get chucked out all over you
(3) fill swirl pot with coolant to top
(4) put temp control to full hot on air blower in the cabin (so coolant can circulate through the matrix and dislodge any air)
(5) turn on engine
Fluid starts sloshing through the swirl pot
(6) add fluid through top of swirl pot until its splilling out all over the place
(7) draw on the cigarette
(8) say "English cars are too fragile" (becoz it's a French mechanic)
(9) When valve has opened up and coolant is circulating through the rad (feel the pipe from swirl to rad getting warm) keep adding coolant throught the swirl pot and bleed the radiator (screw on top of rad on drivers side). When no more air is coming out of the radiator, close the screw.
(10) keep adding coolant through swirl pot until it remains full
(11) do up the brass screw to seal the swirl pot
(12) switch off engine and have a long lunch.
Seems to have worked fine.
. I think there is room for the reader to confuse the swirl pot and the expansion tank in one of his descriptions. Only the later cars have an expansion tank (its the one at the front of the engine bay on the drivers side with the pressure cap on it). The pressure cap used to be on the swirl pot in earlier cars and there was no expansion tank.
In case there is any confusion, you can't top up the system through the expansion tank. I can understand that you might want to put some fluid in it to stop air being sucked out of it, but nothing more. If you fill it, there will be no room for "expansion" so the system's pressure will go up through the roof.
It is the swirl pot that should be filled to within two inches of the top.
When I've watched a mechanic refill the system, he did it as follows:-
(1) Light cigarette, glue to bottom lip (he waas French)
(2) Lean into engine bay (he didn't have any eyebrows ... I wonder why)
(2) Take top off swirl pot (big brass screw ... need a big screwdriver on its side)
THE ENGINE MUST BE COLD WHEN YOU DO THIS so that the coolant doesn't boil or get chucked out all over you
(3) fill swirl pot with coolant to top
(4) put temp control to full hot on air blower in the cabin (so coolant can circulate through the matrix and dislodge any air)
(5) turn on engine
Fluid starts sloshing through the swirl pot
(6) add fluid through top of swirl pot until its splilling out all over the place
(7) draw on the cigarette
(8) say "English cars are too fragile" (becoz it's a French mechanic)
(9) When valve has opened up and coolant is circulating through the rad (feel the pipe from swirl to rad getting warm) keep adding coolant throught the swirl pot and bleed the radiator (screw on top of rad on drivers side). When no more air is coming out of the radiator, close the screw.
(10) keep adding coolant through swirl pot until it remains full
(11) do up the brass screw to seal the swirl pot
(12) switch off engine and have a long lunch.
Seems to have worked fine.
You are quite right, my chimp was an early one and only had a tall alloy thing with a big blue (i think) pressure cap. There was no extra expansion tank, so I got into the habit of calling it by that name. The principal is the same though, ALL THE AIR MUST BE OUT AND YOU MUSTN'T OVERFILL,
Interestingly I had a similar problem with my 400se after the dealer changed the radiator (stone damaged) and the technique I desribed worked a treat here too, except that the header tank/expansion tank/swan neck filler bit arrangements make it all a bit fiddlyer. I reckon my wedge runs cooler than any other I have been in.
Cheers
Andy
Interestingly I had a similar problem with my 400se after the dealer changed the radiator (stone damaged) and the technique I desribed worked a treat here too, except that the header tank/expansion tank/swan neck filler bit arrangements make it all a bit fiddlyer. I reckon my wedge runs cooler than any other I have been in.
Cheers
Andy
Sorry to be boring, but had the same on my chim everyday 90 -110 -120 in traffic or on the move until someone gave me three bits of advice which cured everything including the stress and worry :
1. Fit smaller number plate
2. Stop using that useless garage in farnham
3. Start using Fernhurst
1. made the car run everywhere at 70 -85 which means I didn't boil the Mrs anymore (a big result !!!)
2. Reduced stress and grief by about 300% and the phone bill by about £20 every month how crap can you get !!!
3. Increased my confidence in Tvr by about 300% as they seem to know what they are talking about and are interested in what they are doing, oh and they are cheaper than the farnham lot by quite a bit on most things esp servicing.
Now I know someone is going to tell me how great the farnham lot are but I just have my experiences to comment on and I am now happy as the first time I ever turned the key in my first Tiv (400 se)
1. Fit smaller number plate
2. Stop using that useless garage in farnham
3. Start using Fernhurst
1. made the car run everywhere at 70 -85 which means I didn't boil the Mrs anymore (a big result !!!)
2. Reduced stress and grief by about 300% and the phone bill by about £20 every month how crap can you get !!!
3. Increased my confidence in Tvr by about 300% as they seem to know what they are talking about and are interested in what they are doing, oh and they are cheaper than the farnham lot by quite a bit on most things esp servicing.
Now I know someone is going to tell me how great the farnham lot are but I just have my experiences to comment on and I am now happy as the first time I ever turned the key in my first Tiv (400 se)
Had no issues with mine they have been on my cars for about 2 / 3 months and I have driven past the plod quite a bit (admitedly a bit nervously at first with old plates in the boot) but never had any problems you can order them from most car parts shops they will make any number size number plates up (I got mine from C.A.R. in camberley surrey) they do mail order as well, you can also try the back of motorcyle news as they have adverts to make the same size plates up for bikes hope that helps
jna, a) what size plate/letters did you fit to the front (the size must be 'ok' if plod has ignored you so far, so I will try same as you) b) where did you fit it, i.e bottom of grill ?
I have someone who will make the plate, i just want to find a balance between plod/improved airflow
Edited by ChingfordChimp on Wednesday 17th October 16:09
I have someone who will make the plate, i just want to find a balance between plod/improved airflow
Edited by ChingfordChimp on Wednesday 17th October 16:09
CC, the plate is 16.5 inches by 2.5 inches, the letters are 2.5 inches as well, the main reason for the odd size is (as my car is a 98 with new front) it is the smallest you can go with the same fitting holes and screws allready on the car, I just wanted to see how it would improve without filling old holes and drilling new holes and its great I can't tell you what a difference it makes I just don't worry in traffic anymore hope that helps
Edited by jna on Wednesday 17th October 17:22
Edited by jna on Wednesday 17th October 17:22
If this is any help, I bought my 94 4L Chim from a main dealer, with a warranty (thank god). The first 4 months of ownership were an absolute nightmare- problem after problem, some quite major (and that is no exaggeration).
At one point I was about to throw the towel in, I was instructed to get their MD involved to sort suitable replacement, but I gave the car one last chance (the dealership had always done everything in their power to sort things out).
I've now owned the car 13 months (warranty finished) and the car is now spot-on.
Anyway to get to my main point, I had a coolant loss that occurred when the temp hit about 95 deg C, and the coolant cap would lift and deposit all the fluid on the road. I had a new otta switch, thermostat fitted but the problem continued.
In the end I tried lowering the coolant level in the swirl pot to half way when cold. This cured the problem!
The car will run up to 110Deg in summer traffic (fans coming in and out with no problem).
I did fit the override switch, whilst I had the problem, to allow me to get the fans on before it was too late, and this did help me keep the temperature below 95 Deg. But I no longer use this switch now.
Hope this helps.
Nick.
At one point I was about to throw the towel in, I was instructed to get their MD involved to sort suitable replacement, but I gave the car one last chance (the dealership had always done everything in their power to sort things out).
I've now owned the car 13 months (warranty finished) and the car is now spot-on.
Anyway to get to my main point, I had a coolant loss that occurred when the temp hit about 95 deg C, and the coolant cap would lift and deposit all the fluid on the road. I had a new otta switch, thermostat fitted but the problem continued.
In the end I tried lowering the coolant level in the swirl pot to half way when cold. This cured the problem!
The car will run up to 110Deg in summer traffic (fans coming in and out with no problem).
I did fit the override switch, whilst I had the problem, to allow me to get the fans on before it was too late, and this did help me keep the temperature below 95 Deg. But I no longer use this switch now.
Hope this helps.
Nick.
Just phoned Hawthorns today, and apparantly they have replaced the radiator and fitted fan override switch for me as well. Not sure when I'll have the car back yet as they are waiting on parts to fix my leaking hood whilst its in there.
I too am hoping that there are just some teething problems to sort out under warranty and that afterwards the car should be reliable. Well, fingers crossed, eh?
I too am hoping that there are just some teething problems to sort out under warranty and that afterwards the car should be reliable. Well, fingers crossed, eh?
This maybe a bit of a naive question, but as a fairly new owner of a Chimaera ('96 4.0 HC), what temp. should they run at?
Soon after I bought the car I discovered a leak in the rad. and ended up getting it replaced. Prior to this work being done the car temp was about 80 degrees when hoofing down the motorway, climbing to 100-110 degrees when in traffic. Now it runs at 70-80 on the motorway, and around 100 in traffic.
As I said, rookie question, but is this about right?
Soon after I bought the car I discovered a leak in the rad. and ended up getting it replaced. Prior to this work being done the car temp was about 80 degrees when hoofing down the motorway, climbing to 100-110 degrees when in traffic. Now it runs at 70-80 on the motorway, and around 100 in traffic.
As I said, rookie question, but is this about right?
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