Williams and Spyker protest over "customer cars"..
Discussion
www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38425
That'll be Frank using Toyota engines, and Spyker using Ferrari motors then - half points?
People in glass houses...
I did a search - if this is a repost keep it to yourself, I know where you live...
That'll be Frank using Toyota engines, and Spyker using Ferrari motors then - half points?
People in glass houses...
I did a search - if this is a repost keep it to yourself, I know where you live...
Have to say I agree with them tbh
Buying in engines is completely different to getting the whole car from a parent team or whatever.
No problem with the drivers scoring points, but can't see why they should get constructors points.
edited to add that the drivers probably won't even score any points... well maybe Ant
Buying in engines is completely different to getting the whole car from a parent team or whatever.
No problem with the drivers scoring points, but can't see why they should get constructors points.
edited to add that the drivers probably won't even score any points... well maybe Ant
Edited by peanutjb on Tuesday 6th February 15:31
Yep completely different, according to the Concorde Agreement you're allowed to buy engines from whoever, but you're not allowed to buy / inherit chassis.
FWIW I do sympathise with Spyker / Williams, but I think STR / Aguri is in a fairly strong position (if not morally) simply because Bernie cannot afford to only have 9 teams on the grid and they don't have time to develop new cars, so one way or another they are going to be allowed to race them. The other thing is if Spyker and particularly Williams are worried that a year old Honda will beat their own brand new designs then it doesn't say a lot for their aspirations. Granted the STR situation is a bit different in that its a newly designed Newey car, but the STR team is still fairly small in terms of personnel / experience so I wouldn't expect them to be anything higher than the bottom of the mid-field regardless of which chassis they get. Look at Sauber a few years ago (2003?), they pretty much had the all conquering Ferrari from the previous year bar the badge and red livery, yet despite people thinking they might leap up the grid, they didnt do anything special at all simply because they didnt have the personnel / infrastructure to get the maximum out of the car.
FWIW I do sympathise with Spyker / Williams, but I think STR / Aguri is in a fairly strong position (if not morally) simply because Bernie cannot afford to only have 9 teams on the grid and they don't have time to develop new cars, so one way or another they are going to be allowed to race them. The other thing is if Spyker and particularly Williams are worried that a year old Honda will beat their own brand new designs then it doesn't say a lot for their aspirations. Granted the STR situation is a bit different in that its a newly designed Newey car, but the STR team is still fairly small in terms of personnel / experience so I wouldn't expect them to be anything higher than the bottom of the mid-field regardless of which chassis they get. Look at Sauber a few years ago (2003?), they pretty much had the all conquering Ferrari from the previous year bar the badge and red livery, yet despite people thinking they might leap up the grid, they didnt do anything special at all simply because they didnt have the personnel / infrastructure to get the maximum out of the car.
This makes interesting reading on the subject, and from that Id say SA / STR are in a fairly strong position legally as well, albeit the way they've done it by setting up seperate companies specifically to own the IP rights and sell them back to the teams is not in the spirit of the agreement:
GrandPrix.com Article
GrandPrix.com Article
In the 60s / 70s it was allowed (ironically Frank Williams got into F1 with a customer chassis I think!) but now its all to do with the Concorde Agreement that was drawn up and signed after that era, which has the intention to outlaw chassis sharing between teams.
I guess though it boils down to the risk of being beaten and losing money, rather than anything else.
I guess though it boils down to the risk of being beaten and losing money, rather than anything else.
I have to say I don't really see the complaint either. From a business perspective and the addage of "speculate to accumulate" - if you spend more cash researching and developing your own car, run by the most able personnel you can hire, you should be aiming to be further up the grid than a team that buys second hand cars / chassis' and, therefore be targetting the bigger value sponsors to pay for that investment. If Red Bull want to effectively run four cars, why shouldn't they, by funding two teams?
Looking at the arguments put forward by Spyker and Williams - I don't see that it's "totally different" to look at the engine vs chassis, because they are arguing that because e.g. Super Aguri buy-in everything, they aren't a constructor and shouldn't get points for being such. Logically therefore, if you buy in a significant part of a whole racing car i.e. the engine, why should you get full points?
It may say so in the rules, a fair point, but customer engines were presumably part of a cost cutting measure for teams when they were first allowed - why is it now totally different to take this one stage further and buy in the whole car?
Looking at the arguments put forward by Spyker and Williams - I don't see that it's "totally different" to look at the engine vs chassis, because they are arguing that because e.g. Super Aguri buy-in everything, they aren't a constructor and shouldn't get points for being such. Logically therefore, if you buy in a significant part of a whole racing car i.e. the engine, why should you get full points?
It may say so in the rules, a fair point, but customer engines were presumably part of a cost cutting measure for teams when they were first allowed - why is it now totally different to take this one stage further and buy in the whole car?
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