Spitfire with a GT6 engine
Discussion
I am looking a spitfire/GT6 hybrid. I'd like to no what people think of these, and if the s6 is too much for the chassis.
It seems like a real bargain, and it was a blast to drive, but the way the doors fit worries me. The is no rust on the car and the engine and transmission sound and feel great. Would it be better to steer clear of such Frankenstein monsters?
I'm no expert on these cars, so any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
It seems like a real bargain, and it was a blast to drive, but the way the doors fit worries me. The is no rust on the car and the engine and transmission sound and feel great. Would it be better to steer clear of such Frankenstein monsters?
I'm no expert on these cars, so any and all advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
First the chassis is the same on a spitfire and gt6, so no issues there. The GT6 has bigger brakes and different front springs, so these should have been changed with the engine. Spitfire doors are always horrid. Least they are in all the ones I have been in. If they don't fit in the hole though it is probably due to rusty sills, or bad replacement of them in the past. Even though it has a seperate chassis the body still has structual parts like sills etc, so check these for rust.
Hi I have a Spitfire with the triumph 2500 straight six fitted. (usually called Gitfires or CGT6 etc etc)
Big difference is obviuously the power and torque, but you also have two extra cast iron cylinders and weight overhanging the front wheels in normal set up GT6, so handling is not as good as standard Spitfire.
In my car, the engine is mounted six inches further back, so that the weight is distributed better, and the handling is far better than a normal GT6 set up Spitfire. This does cause hassle with carbs, exhaust manifolds fitting and needs some panel work to the bulkhead, where as using the standard GT6 installation this is not necessary.
Obviuosly need to swap to GT6 brakes, and use GT6 gearbox, but pretty easy conversion. Noise and power much better
, but not quite as good on the twisty stuff.
The conversion is quite common in the UK, so do not be put off. Make sure the car you are looking at has the GT6 brakes etc (type 14 stamped on caliper), and with any car check for rot. If it drives straight, and you are not too worried about the look of the doors (as mentioned probably bad sill repair / renewal) use the door fit to get the car cheaper.
My Gitfire is fun, fast and cheap too look after, I would say go for it!!
Big difference is obviuously the power and torque, but you also have two extra cast iron cylinders and weight overhanging the front wheels in normal set up GT6, so handling is not as good as standard Spitfire.
In my car, the engine is mounted six inches further back, so that the weight is distributed better, and the handling is far better than a normal GT6 set up Spitfire. This does cause hassle with carbs, exhaust manifolds fitting and needs some panel work to the bulkhead, where as using the standard GT6 installation this is not necessary.
Obviuosly need to swap to GT6 brakes, and use GT6 gearbox, but pretty easy conversion. Noise and power much better
, but not quite as good on the twisty stuff. The conversion is quite common in the UK, so do not be put off. Make sure the car you are looking at has the GT6 brakes etc (type 14 stamped on caliper), and with any car check for rot. If it drives straight, and you are not too worried about the look of the doors (as mentioned probably bad sill repair / renewal) use the door fit to get the car cheaper.
My Gitfire is fun, fast and cheap too look after, I would say go for it!!
Edited by moosetvr on Monday 12th March 10:05
Thank you, both, very much. I feel a lot better this having heard from some people who are familiar with such cars. I'm just looking for something fun; I had been hoping to get my hands on an M series TVR, but I just can't afford that right now. It sounds great and was a fun drive, so I think I'll look into it some more.
Cheers
Cheers
moosetvr said:
Hi I have a Spitfire with the triumph 2500 straight six fitted. (usually called Gitfires or CGT6 etc etc)
Big difference is obviuously the power and torque, but you also have two extra cast iron cylinders and weight overhanging the front wheels in normal set up GT6, so handling is not as good as standard Spitfire.
In my car, the engine is mounted six inches further back, so that the weight is distributed better, and the handling is far better than a normal GT6 set up Spitfire. This does cause hassle with carbs, exhaust manifolds fitting and needs some panel work to the bulkhead, where as using the standard GT6 installation this is not necessary.
Obviuosly need to swap to GT6 brakes, and use GT6 gearbox, but pretty easy conversion. Noise and power much better, but not quite as good on the twisty stuff.
The conversion is quite common in the UK, so do not be put off. Make sure the car you are looking at has the GT6 brakes etc (type 14 stamped on caliper), and with any car check for rot. If it drives straight, and you are not too worried about the look of the doors (as mentioned probably bad sill repair / renewal) use the door fit to get the car cheaper.
My Gitfire is fun, fast and cheap too look after, I would say go for it!!
Big difference is obviuously the power and torque, but you also have two extra cast iron cylinders and weight overhanging the front wheels in normal set up GT6, so handling is not as good as standard Spitfire.
In my car, the engine is mounted six inches further back, so that the weight is distributed better, and the handling is far better than a normal GT6 set up Spitfire. This does cause hassle with carbs, exhaust manifolds fitting and needs some panel work to the bulkhead, where as using the standard GT6 installation this is not necessary.
Obviuosly need to swap to GT6 brakes, and use GT6 gearbox, but pretty easy conversion. Noise and power much better
, but not quite as good on the twisty stuff. The conversion is quite common in the UK, so do not be put off. Make sure the car you are looking at has the GT6 brakes etc (type 14 stamped on caliper), and with any car check for rot. If it drives straight, and you are not too worried about the look of the doors (as mentioned probably bad sill repair / renewal) use the door fit to get the car cheaper.
My Gitfire is fun, fast and cheap too look after, I would say go for it!!
Edited by moosetvr on Monday 12th March 10:05
Moose
I'm looking at getting a Spitfire as well for a bit of fun (but keep the TVR). Used to have a MkIII in my younger days.
I would want a MkIII and will keep the looks and interior absolutely original but improve all the mechanicals. As you seem to be in the know can you tell me what you think about:
You say you can get the oringinal engine upto 125bhp how would you suggest doing this and what do you think it would cost (done by a specialist).
If I wanted to go to 150bhp and above what would be the best route and the approx cost?
And also for the brakes. I seem to remember the rear brakes are drum-can it be upgraded to disks on all corner and the best upgrade for these and the pads.
And the suspension-what is the best way to seriously improve the handling. I guess the front should be quite easy but again I seem to remember the rear being pretty agricultural.
Thanks for any advise you can give.
greenie said:
moosetvr said:
Hi I have a Spitfire with the triumph 2500 straight six fitted. (usually called Gitfires or CGT6 etc etc)
Big difference is obviuously the power and torque, but you also have two extra cast iron cylinders and weight overhanging the front wheels in normal set up GT6, so handling is not as good as standard Spitfire.
In my car, the engine is mounted six inches further back, so that the weight is distributed better, and the handling is far better than a normal GT6 set up Spitfire. This does cause hassle with carbs, exhaust manifolds fitting and needs some panel work to the bulkhead, where as using the standard GT6 installation this is not necessary.
Obviuosly need to swap to GT6 brakes, and use GT6 gearbox, but pretty easy conversion. Noise and power much better, but not quite as good on the twisty stuff.
The conversion is quite common in the UK, so do not be put off. Make sure the car you are looking at has the GT6 brakes etc (type 14 stamped on caliper), and with any car check for rot. If it drives straight, and you are not too worried about the look of the doors (as mentioned probably bad sill repair / renewal) use the door fit to get the car cheaper.
My Gitfire is fun, fast and cheap too look after, I would say go for it!!
Moose
I'm looking at getting a Spitfire as well for a bit of fun (but keep the TVR). Used to have a MkIII in my younger days.
I would want a MkIII and will keep the looks and interior absolutely original but improve all the mechanicals. As you seem to be in the know can you tell me what you think about:
You say you can get the oringinal engine upto 125bhp how would you suggest doing this and what do you think it would cost (done by a specialist).
If I wanted to go to 150bhp and above what would be the best route and the approx cost?
And also for the brakes. I seem to remember the rear brakes are drum-can it be upgraded to disks on all corner and the best upgrade for these and the pads.
And the suspension-what is the best way to seriously improve the handling. I guess the front should be quite easy but again I seem to remember the rear being pretty agricultural.
Thanks for any advise you can give.
Big difference is obviuously the power and torque, but you also have two extra cast iron cylinders and weight overhanging the front wheels in normal set up GT6, so handling is not as good as standard Spitfire.
In my car, the engine is mounted six inches further back, so that the weight is distributed better, and the handling is far better than a normal GT6 set up Spitfire. This does cause hassle with carbs, exhaust manifolds fitting and needs some panel work to the bulkhead, where as using the standard GT6 installation this is not necessary.
Obviuosly need to swap to GT6 brakes, and use GT6 gearbox, but pretty easy conversion. Noise and power much better
, but not quite as good on the twisty stuff. The conversion is quite common in the UK, so do not be put off. Make sure the car you are looking at has the GT6 brakes etc (type 14 stamped on caliper), and with any car check for rot. If it drives straight, and you are not too worried about the look of the doors (as mentioned probably bad sill repair / renewal) use the door fit to get the car cheaper.
My Gitfire is fun, fast and cheap too look after, I would say go for it!!
Moose
I'm looking at getting a Spitfire as well for a bit of fun (but keep the TVR). Used to have a MkIII in my younger days.
I would want a MkIII and will keep the looks and interior absolutely original but improve all the mechanicals. As you seem to be in the know can you tell me what you think about:
You say you can get the oringinal engine upto 125bhp how would you suggest doing this and what do you think it would cost (done by a specialist).
If I wanted to go to 150bhp and above what would be the best route and the approx cost?
And also for the brakes. I seem to remember the rear brakes are drum-can it be upgraded to disks on all corner and the best upgrade for these and the pads.
And the suspension-what is the best way to seriously improve the handling. I guess the front should be quite easy but again I seem to remember the rear being pretty agricultural.
Thanks for any advise you can give.
Greenie,
Standard 2500 lump is around 110bhp on twin carbs, but torque is good and that is what gives acceleration not the BHP.
TR6 running same basic lump with Lucas PI injection runs 150bhp standard.
Best bet would be to buy two cars, a good bodied MKIII spit and a knackered bodywork GT6. If GT6 chassis is okay, transplant the Spit body on the GT6 chassis and running gear and you have a Spit 6
(very simplified version!!) Best route is too look on the forums on TSSC and Triumph Owners club websites, much more info and knowledgeable people on those sites!!!
Edited by moosetvr on Monday 12th March 10:05
Don't they still race spitfires in a TSSC championship of some sort? There must be a community of racers out there who know about getting the best out of the spit engine?
The 1300 engine is supposed to be more tuneable than the 1500 due to shorter crank throw. If Triumph Tune are still in business then they used to publish a great tuning catalogue which was available through the Moss Group. The basics were breathing (exhaust manifold and head work) followed by cams and then pistons. Alongside this, brakes and handling are critical, like a rear anti-roll bar.
If you don't want to keep a genuine spit engine then you're better off going for something lighter. Believe it or not, a rover V8 is lighter than a triumph 6 - I remember seeing a nice V8 implant in a GT6 many years ago at Stoneleigh. Another alternative is the Lotus twin cam.
I've had my spitfire for nearly 20 years. It gets sod all use but still starts when needed and has done some mega long-distance trips (2000 miles in 2 weeks around Europe, Le Mans, John O'Groats, etc). I've decided long ago that it's not a performance car however, its about open top motoring at comfortable speeds. A 27 year old 911 and a 2001 Tuscan provide the thrills!
The 1300 engine is supposed to be more tuneable than the 1500 due to shorter crank throw. If Triumph Tune are still in business then they used to publish a great tuning catalogue which was available through the Moss Group. The basics were breathing (exhaust manifold and head work) followed by cams and then pistons. Alongside this, brakes and handling are critical, like a rear anti-roll bar.
If you don't want to keep a genuine spit engine then you're better off going for something lighter. Believe it or not, a rover V8 is lighter than a triumph 6 - I remember seeing a nice V8 implant in a GT6 many years ago at Stoneleigh. Another alternative is the Lotus twin cam.
I've had my spitfire for nearly 20 years. It gets sod all use but still starts when needed and has done some mega long-distance trips (2000 miles in 2 weeks around Europe, Le Mans, John O'Groats, etc). I've decided long ago that it's not a performance car however, its about open top motoring at comfortable speeds. A 27 year old 911 and a 2001 Tuscan provide the thrills!
jellison said:
greenie said:
I've already got something big and fast!
And I've just bought something big and slow.
And now I need something small and slow.
Then I have the full set.
Quality - good reponse. And I've just bought something big and slow.
And now I need something small and slow.
Then I have the full set.
Do you carry your golf clubs around when you race the Chim?
I used to have a TR4 great fun. How much money do you have to chuck at it to be able to race at your level? Did you convert your TR4 from a road car or was it already race spec when you bought it?
greenie said:
jellison said:
greenie said:
I've already got something big and fast!
And I've just bought something big and slow.
And now I need something small and slow.
Then I have the full set.
Quality - good reponse. And I've just bought something big and slow.
And now I need something small and slow.
Then I have the full set.
Do you carry your golf clubs around when you race the Chim?
I used to have a TR4 great fun. How much money do you have to chuck at it to be able to race at your level? Did you convert your TR4 from a road car or was it already race spec when you bought it?
Er don't race the Chim!! Some club might hold the back down well though.
TR4 was a racer when I bought it in 89 but not the best built. Car has been rebuilt completely since then (many parts many times). To build one like mine (if it was written of of in a fire woul likely cost well over 30-35k even if doing work yourself. Engine alone is the most powerfull 4 cylinder TR that we know of and Bonker cash invested in it! 100bhp per litre on a 50+ year old design.
Club racing can be cheap at Spit level - but you do not really go that fast - at Top TR level it really starts to cost.
My for is having a full engine rebuild pre going up for sale (on PH before we decided best for next owner to have the full rebuild), on Race Car sites.
TR6 racer this year.
You fancy racing?
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