Discussion
Hi. Just found this forum browsing around and thought I should say at the outset what a great place it seems to be. Just read the sticky about buying an XJ8/R which is the best I have ever seen and also Vladmans long long thread about his R. Glad it had a happy ending.
I own a black 2000 model year XJR and I think it would be fair to say it's a full blown love affair. I hankered after one for years and was absolutely over the moon when I bought it in mid 2005. Sadly as affairs go this one is in the high maintainance category and it has to be the most unreliable machine I have ever had. I have lost track of the number of times I have been to the main dealer but issues have included overheating, which needed a new thermostat, a transmission leak which needed a gasket and then the really serious stuff, two new shocks at the back, a new steering column rack for the steering adjust and now, horror of horrors a timing chain tensioner has gone leaving me with a 2K bill to put it right.
If it was a horse I would probably shoot it.
Needless to say this last bit of bad news led to a bit of soul searching and I decided it was time to part company. A trip up the motorway in a hired eurobox courtesy of the AA convinced me it was time to take up sensible motoring. The car is 150 miles away and it's going to be a week or so before I get it back so I have had a chance to change my mind again. I miss it, just reading the posts here has reminded me what a fantastic car this is and I just want to sit in it again. I think I will keep it regardless of the cost. So thanks for that, if it ever runs like it should I will be poor but at least I will be happy. I would never have quite come to terms with selling it.
My little browse in the sticky at the top has more or less convinced me that I must have a late production Nikasil engine as well as everything else which, after a short bout of sobbing, leads me to the point of this post.
I also think it is not quite as fast as some of the posts say it should be. Could this be a Nikasil issue. I have no obvious symptoms of this, it starts well, seems amazingly quick and doesn't use any oil, it doesn't smoke and the fuel consumption is pretty fair for its age and mileage 47K. Yes that's right all this has happened in a car that has only done 47 thousand miles. However I have recently noticed quite a strong smell of fuel on first start up and remember hearing somewhere that this is one of the signs. Given the problems I have had it seems logical that this could be next and I don't really know what to do. I heard of the blow by test but am not sure what this actually is, how it's done and what it's likely to cost. Is it accurate in diagnosing Nikasil problems and is there any other way, eg can you take a plug out and check by looking down the bores. Presumably the dealer can do it but has anyone had it done, if so how much did it cost
Thanks, needed to get that of my chest and you know wives etc aren't really interested, hope you all are.
I own a black 2000 model year XJR and I think it would be fair to say it's a full blown love affair. I hankered after one for years and was absolutely over the moon when I bought it in mid 2005. Sadly as affairs go this one is in the high maintainance category and it has to be the most unreliable machine I have ever had. I have lost track of the number of times I have been to the main dealer but issues have included overheating, which needed a new thermostat, a transmission leak which needed a gasket and then the really serious stuff, two new shocks at the back, a new steering column rack for the steering adjust and now, horror of horrors a timing chain tensioner has gone leaving me with a 2K bill to put it right.
If it was a horse I would probably shoot it.
Needless to say this last bit of bad news led to a bit of soul searching and I decided it was time to part company. A trip up the motorway in a hired eurobox courtesy of the AA convinced me it was time to take up sensible motoring. The car is 150 miles away and it's going to be a week or so before I get it back so I have had a chance to change my mind again. I miss it, just reading the posts here has reminded me what a fantastic car this is and I just want to sit in it again. I think I will keep it regardless of the cost. So thanks for that, if it ever runs like it should I will be poor but at least I will be happy. I would never have quite come to terms with selling it.
My little browse in the sticky at the top has more or less convinced me that I must have a late production Nikasil engine as well as everything else which, after a short bout of sobbing, leads me to the point of this post.
I also think it is not quite as fast as some of the posts say it should be. Could this be a Nikasil issue. I have no obvious symptoms of this, it starts well, seems amazingly quick and doesn't use any oil, it doesn't smoke and the fuel consumption is pretty fair for its age and mileage 47K. Yes that's right all this has happened in a car that has only done 47 thousand miles. However I have recently noticed quite a strong smell of fuel on first start up and remember hearing somewhere that this is one of the signs. Given the problems I have had it seems logical that this could be next and I don't really know what to do. I heard of the blow by test but am not sure what this actually is, how it's done and what it's likely to cost. Is it accurate in diagnosing Nikasil problems and is there any other way, eg can you take a plug out and check by looking down the bores. Presumably the dealer can do it but has anyone had it done, if so how much did it cost
Thanks, needed to get that of my chest and you know wives etc aren't really interested, hope you all are.
I felt compelled to reply... even though, if I'm honest... I don't really know what to say. Other than, yes, we (well, at least I) are interested, and care... I can totally feel your anguish and pain and doubts... The car is fantastic, but the last thing you want is all those unreliability problems. It sounds like you were (and still are) incredibly unlucky. And still, you stick with the car, which I also definitely understand.
Have you tried to determine if your car has the Nikasil engine by checking the engine number as per the instructions in the buying guide post? I think if the last 6 numbers begin with an "F" you should be ok. Also, when was the car first registered? Mine was registered in March 2000 and it definitely doesn't have Nikasil, this was confirmed by the main dealer. I have a feeling my car was actually made in January 2000, so I'd find it very strange if you have a 2000 car and it has Nikasil.
I sincerely hope you find your car doesn't have Nikasil problems, you really don't need that on top of all your other troubles.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Have you tried to determine if your car has the Nikasil engine by checking the engine number as per the instructions in the buying guide post? I think if the last 6 numbers begin with an "F" you should be ok. Also, when was the car first registered? Mine was registered in March 2000 and it definitely doesn't have Nikasil, this was confirmed by the main dealer. I have a feeling my car was actually made in January 2000, so I'd find it very strange if you have a 2000 car and it has Nikasil.
I sincerely hope you find your car doesn't have Nikasil problems, you really don't need that on top of all your other troubles.
Good luck and keep us posted!
This should make you feel better...
If you're timing chain tensioners have failed and the bill to put it right is only £2k you are a very lucky person indeed. When mine failed it needed a replacement engine - £8.5k!
Managed to get £4k out of the warranty company, but the rest was the cost of my love affair.
Still have the car and am desperately trying to convince the wife it's a perfect family car!
If you're timing chain tensioners have failed and the bill to put it right is only £2k you are a very lucky person indeed. When mine failed it needed a replacement engine - £8.5k!
Managed to get £4k out of the warranty company, but the rest was the cost of my love affair.Still have the car and am desperately trying to convince the wife it's a perfect family car!
Its not all doom and gloom.............I bought a 2000 x reg car last year cheaply as there was a slight tapping noise on the engine, the engine was knackered, so I put an ad on findapart and was offered loads of engines, I bought a 2001 (later type) engine which had done 34K miles for £2K + VAT, had it fitted, sold the car onto a guy who has since put 30K miles on it without any problem..........these cars can be run for sensible money, but the main dealer is a no no to do so.
My current XJR had a ABS sensor fault that Jaguar wanted £350 + VAT to fix...I bought a used sensor for £35 and it took 30 mins to fit, that is a good example
@Vladman,
Unless you have a replacement engine (can be identified by the green tag), it is more than likely that you have a Nikasil engine. My engine was build in May 2000 (car end of June), is a Nikasil one, and I think the last engine build with Nikasil was end of July 2000. Assuming your car was built in January, then your engine was probably build in October 1999. To be sure just check your engine serial that has the build date in it.
The only info a dealer has is the info from jaguar via an official service bulletin S491, and that clearly states that the switch away from Nikasil took place in September 2000. Many people where confused, even my dealer initially though my engine wasn't Nikasil until Jaguar told them it was.
So the only way to be really 100% sure would be if the dealer had taken of the heads, maybe that was the case? Or how would they know otherwise?
Unless you have a replacement engine (can be identified by the green tag), it is more than likely that you have a Nikasil engine. My engine was build in May 2000 (car end of June), is a Nikasil one, and I think the last engine build with Nikasil was end of July 2000. Assuming your car was built in January, then your engine was probably build in October 1999. To be sure just check your engine serial that has the build date in it.
The only info a dealer has is the info from jaguar via an official service bulletin S491, and that clearly states that the switch away from Nikasil took place in September 2000. Many people where confused, even my dealer initially though my engine wasn't Nikasil until Jaguar told them it was.
So the only way to be really 100% sure would be if the dealer had taken of the heads, maybe that was the case? Or how would they know otherwise?
XJRMark
Sorry to hear or your sad tail.
Ref the blow by test, its quite quick and easy to do, i.e. around an hour, and it will give you a good idea just how good your cylinders are. Not sure where you are in the country, but we are based in slough and charge £60+vat for a full blow by test. Main dealer may charge a little more, but don’t pay anymore than £100!
Let me know if we can help.
Best wishes
www.paramount-performance.com
Sorry to hear or your sad tail.
Ref the blow by test, its quite quick and easy to do, i.e. around an hour, and it will give you a good idea just how good your cylinders are. Not sure where you are in the country, but we are based in slough and charge £60+vat for a full blow by test. Main dealer may charge a little more, but don’t pay anymore than £100!
Let me know if we can help.
Best wishes
www.paramount-performance.com
avos said:
@Vladman,
Unless you have a replacement engine (can be identified by the green tag), it is more than likely that you have a Nikasil engine. My engine was build in May 2000 (car end of June), is a Nikasil one, and I think the last engine build with Nikasil was end of July 2000. Assuming your car was built in January, then your engine was probably build in October 1999. To be sure just check your engine serial that has the build date in it.
The only info a dealer has is the info from jaguar via an official service bulletin S491, and that clearly states that the switch away from Nikasil took place in September 2000. Many people where confused, even my dealer initially though my engine wasn't Nikasil until Jaguar told them it was.
So the only way to be really 100% sure would be if the dealer had taken of the heads, maybe that was the case? Or how would they know otherwise?
not wanting to hijack the thread, but just a reply to this...Unless you have a replacement engine (can be identified by the green tag), it is more than likely that you have a Nikasil engine. My engine was build in May 2000 (car end of June), is a Nikasil one, and I think the last engine build with Nikasil was end of July 2000. Assuming your car was built in January, then your engine was probably build in October 1999. To be sure just check your engine serial that has the build date in it.
The only info a dealer has is the info from jaguar via an official service bulletin S491, and that clearly states that the switch away from Nikasil took place in September 2000. Many people where confused, even my dealer initially though my engine wasn't Nikasil until Jaguar told them it was.
So the only way to be really 100% sure would be if the dealer had taken of the heads, maybe that was the case? Or how would they know otherwise?
i don't know how the dealer would know, and i wouldn't be surprised if they're wrong. but that's what they said. how do you interpret the build date from the engine number? also, don't think the engine on mine was ever changed...
cheers.
The composition of the serial number is based on the date and time it was produced and goes as follows, yymmddhhmm.
Well if it comforts anyone, my Nikasil engine has done now about 115Kmiles, and is still as smooth as it can be, just treat these engines with care and they might hold longer than then others. I know some haven't been that fortunate and that is bad news of course, but given the low sulphur levels nowadays (since 2000) chances are better now, and a blow by test would be good check if you are worried (haven’t done mine though).
Well if it comforts anyone, my Nikasil engine has done now about 115Kmiles, and is still as smooth as it can be, just treat these engines with care and they might hold longer than then others. I know some haven't been that fortunate and that is bad news of course, but given the low sulphur levels nowadays (since 2000) chances are better now, and a blow by test would be good check if you are worried (haven’t done mine though).
Well thanks for that. Now I'm feeling more positive, a couple of beers have also been consumed which always helps, so I will let you all know what happens. Paramount, thanks for the tip but the car is stranded in Bristol, you're not to far away from where I live so I will file that away for future reference. Vladman, I once had an 1998 4 litre XJ8 that had had an engine change, the dealer denied it was Nikasil and said it was a seized engine through overheating. He said the owner was feeling ill and when the red light came on he kept going. Pigs might fly I say. That had a green sticker at the back of one of the cylinder heads which was clearly visible. Have a look, if you have a replacement you should see this. I hate to say it and I want to be wrong but you probably have a Nikasil engine if it's original. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this and there is an article posted at jaglovers.org that says otherwise but the consensus seems to be that change over was August/ September 2000. Why don't you have another go at the dealer about it. Maybe he has a copy of the original bulletin he could give you. The good news is that if it is Nikasil like mine it will never have run on anything but low sulphur fuel.
I think that part of my problem is that the local main dealer has not really looked after the car properly. They are always ridiculously busy and I think they make snap judgements without standing back from the car and really thinking it through. They changed the rear shocks because the car was making a noise that can only be described as being like a large parcel flopping up and down in the boot when going over bumps. This cost a fortune as you can imagine. This noise has come back recently (did I mention that) and the dealer that now has it to do the chains says at such a low mileage it it more likely to have been a suspension bush, which explains why it has come back after a few thousand miles. This lot are the main dealers for the Bristol area and they seem a bit more switched on, so lets hope for the best.
On the subject of speed just how fast do people find these cars. I know that this is a subjective thing but my test has always been that if I put it in sport mode I can guarantee to leave anything else behind at the lights and it never seems to run out of urge at high speeds. However I can't say I have ever found it frightening, it's all very controlled, how do you know if the car really is coming up to spec.
Nice to talk to people who care about their cars. I have had a few Jags down the years and have looked after them myself for the most part so if I can help anyone I will.
I think that part of my problem is that the local main dealer has not really looked after the car properly. They are always ridiculously busy and I think they make snap judgements without standing back from the car and really thinking it through. They changed the rear shocks because the car was making a noise that can only be described as being like a large parcel flopping up and down in the boot when going over bumps. This cost a fortune as you can imagine. This noise has come back recently (did I mention that) and the dealer that now has it to do the chains says at such a low mileage it it more likely to have been a suspension bush, which explains why it has come back after a few thousand miles. This lot are the main dealers for the Bristol area and they seem a bit more switched on, so lets hope for the best.
On the subject of speed just how fast do people find these cars. I know that this is a subjective thing but my test has always been that if I put it in sport mode I can guarantee to leave anything else behind at the lights and it never seems to run out of urge at high speeds. However I can't say I have ever found it frightening, it's all very controlled, how do you know if the car really is coming up to spec.
Nice to talk to people who care about their cars. I have had a few Jags down the years and have looked after them myself for the most part so if I can help anyone I will.
xjrmark, having read your threads you seemed switched on to the various problems however something struck me, would it not be wise to find out if you have a nikasil problem before you spend £2.5k on a tensioner rebuild?? God forbid you spend all that money only to find out your engine is on it's way out
I am no expert but I thought the nikasil liner problem was relatively easy to diagnose in the form of very poor running, hot start trouble and just plain old not starting at all in the end.
I have a 540i BMW with a nikasil block and it is fine (96). I believe it is quite widely accepted that the nikasil engine is actually the better unit, other than its issue with sulphur content in pre 1998 fuel. Any nikasil engine manufactured and run in the UK after 1998 should not have any issues as fuel content was strictly regulated. Of course tensioners, thermostats and water pumps are another issue butI for one would not be overly concerned about a nikasil block manufactured in 99/00.
Hope all goes well. The blow-by test would be money well spent just for peace of mind imo.
I have a 540i BMW with a nikasil block and it is fine (96). I believe it is quite widely accepted that the nikasil engine is actually the better unit, other than its issue with sulphur content in pre 1998 fuel. Any nikasil engine manufactured and run in the UK after 1998 should not have any issues as fuel content was strictly regulated. Of course tensioners, thermostats and water pumps are another issue butI for one would not be overly concerned about a nikasil block manufactured in 99/00.
Hope all goes well. The blow-by test would be money well spent just for peace of mind imo.
The engineer from R A Creamers who looked after mine did say that there is quite a big variation in the performance of XJRs.
(you do have the sport button ON at ALL times I presume
)
I feel your pain, they are utterly fabulous cars when they're working, BUT, they are fragile I'm afraid.
I was fortunate with the Nikasil and timing chain tensioner stuff.
But, mine spend three months with Jaguar because they had no replacement power steering pumps!
(you do have the sport button ON at ALL times I presume
)I feel your pain, they are utterly fabulous cars when they're working, BUT, they are fragile I'm afraid.
I was fortunate with the Nikasil and timing chain tensioner stuff.
But, mine spend three months with Jaguar because they had no replacement power steering pumps!
avos said:
@Vladman,
Unless you have a replacement engine (can be identified by the green tag), it is more than likely that you have a Nikasil engine. My engine was build in May 2000 (car end of June), is a Nikasil one, and I think the last engine build with Nikasil was end of July 2000. Assuming your car was built in January, then your engine was probably build in October 1999. To be sure just check your engine serial that has the build date in it.
The only info a dealer has is the info from jaguar via an official service bulletin S491, and that clearly states that the switch away from Nikasil took place in September 2000. Many people where confused, even my dealer initially though my engine wasn't Nikasil until Jaguar told them it was.
So the only way to be really 100% sure would be if the dealer had taken of the heads, maybe that was the case? Or how would they know otherwise?
There is quite a bit on the various XJR threads here on the Nikasil/Engine numbers ident. The first steel engined cars came off the line in late 1999 Oct/Nov. I know as my dealer confirmed by 2000my XJR was actually a late 1999 build and has a steel lined engine. They ran off the Niksail enginesthey had I think even while they fitted steel ones... Maybe we'll never get to the bottom of this!Unless you have a replacement engine (can be identified by the green tag), it is more than likely that you have a Nikasil engine. My engine was build in May 2000 (car end of June), is a Nikasil one, and I think the last engine build with Nikasil was end of July 2000. Assuming your car was built in January, then your engine was probably build in October 1999. To be sure just check your engine serial that has the build date in it.
The only info a dealer has is the info from jaguar via an official service bulletin S491, and that clearly states that the switch away from Nikasil took place in September 2000. Many people where confused, even my dealer initially though my engine wasn't Nikasil until Jaguar told them it was.
So the only way to be really 100% sure would be if the dealer had taken of the heads, maybe that was the case? Or how would they know otherwise?
Re the Nikasil issues on this thread, the July 2007 issue of Jaguar World has a good article on the subject. I quote:
"Jaguar switched back to conventional steel lined cylinder blocks from engine number 000818-1043 and because a Jaguar engine is numbered according to the time and date of production, this means that all engines built from 10:43 on 18 August 2000 have steel liners. To use up existing supplies of Nikasil engines both types would have been used side by side for a period of weeks or even months. Therefore VIN number and model year cannot be accurately used to identify a Nikasil car."
Hope this helps, and thanks to JW.
R.
"Jaguar switched back to conventional steel lined cylinder blocks from engine number 000818-1043 and because a Jaguar engine is numbered according to the time and date of production, this means that all engines built from 10:43 on 18 August 2000 have steel liners. To use up existing supplies of Nikasil engines both types would have been used side by side for a period of weeks or even months. Therefore VIN number and model year cannot be accurately used to identify a Nikasil car."
Hope this helps, and thanks to JW.
R.
So, if you want to know, pull off the cylinder head and look or, stick one of those things (like medics use to check out your innards) down a spark plug hole and look. Either way it sounds like the only sure solution is a physical exam of the cylinder bore using the mark I eyeball.
I get my R back at the weekend, unfortunately they had started work before I told them to do a blow by test so I will just have to take my chances on that. The knocking noise seems like it is a failed shock, which is under warranty so things are looking up, that is apart from the nail in the tyre they discovered and the worn suspension bushes at the front which they are also sorting out.
I get my R back at the weekend, unfortunately they had started work before I told them to do a blow by test so I will just have to take my chances on that. The knocking noise seems like it is a failed shock, which is under warranty so things are looking up, that is apart from the nail in the tyre they discovered and the worn suspension bushes at the front which they are also sorting out.
Well it's back and it's perfect.
Apparently one of the top tensioners had completely broken, hence the rattle, and the lower one was on the way out as well. This car has a full main dealer service history and has been serviced on the button at the dealership. Bearing in mind the XJR's are supposed to be less prone to this than the XJ8's the moral of the tale has to be that silence doesn't mean your tensioners are sound.
The dodgy shock at the back was changed under parts warranty at no cost to me so I'm a happy boy again, oh and they did the tyre for £20.
The drive belts are squealing when cold again, but that's another story.
Hartwell Jaguar Bristol, highly recommended so far.
Apparently one of the top tensioners had completely broken, hence the rattle, and the lower one was on the way out as well. This car has a full main dealer service history and has been serviced on the button at the dealership. Bearing in mind the XJR's are supposed to be less prone to this than the XJ8's the moral of the tale has to be that silence doesn't mean your tensioners are sound.
The dodgy shock at the back was changed under parts warranty at no cost to me so I'm a happy boy again, oh and they did the tyre for £20.
The drive belts are squealing when cold again, but that's another story.
Hartwell Jaguar Bristol, highly recommended so far.
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