Discussion
If you do buy an E39 - and I highly recommend it - then make sure you get the face-lifted version post Sept 2000. It has an updated engine which doesn't appear to suffer from the vanos issues and certainly doesn't chew through as much oil either.
It is not uncommon for early E39s to require an extra litre of oil every 1000 miles, but mine requires a modest top up (1/4 litre) every 2500 miles - and I use it pretty hard.
It is worth spending an extra £1k - 2k to get the best car you can as you will save money in long term.
It is not uncommon for early E39s to require an extra litre of oil every 1000 miles, but mine requires a modest top up (1/4 litre) every 2500 miles - and I use it pretty hard.
It is worth spending an extra £1k - 2k to get the best car you can as you will save money in long term.
Not being rude, but if your advising prospective purchasers of the M5......Please be accurate with the information.
Any E39 M5 with a build date (Shown on the VIN Plate under the bonnet) of 03/2000 and above has an engine fitted with the revised piston ring design. Go for the best car....not the newest.
Any E39 M5 with a build date (Shown on the VIN Plate under the bonnet) of 03/2000 and above has an engine fitted with the revised piston ring design. Go for the best car....not the newest.
definatley go for the e39 m5 you wont regret it. it is the best car ever but like the other say get a facelifted model as you do get the better satnav and steering wheel also it is worth looking at getting one with the heritage leather it is a good option and i think it realy adds something to the car
At the risk of throwing cats amongst pidgeons - the E34 M5 is a more stimulating car, noisy enough at idle to rattle house windows and doors (but still refined when you're in it), less isolation from the road (though no worse for road noise), mechanical rose-jointed as opposed to electronic throttle, no traction control (which you don't need because the chassis is so benign it makes you feel like Schuey). The E34 also seems to ride a little softer, as it is further away from the era of the ultimate NS lap time. Lap time may be a bigger priority for you than for me, as I'm a country-road driver and can't afford to thrash my cars on track. Predictability is therefore a priority for me.
Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
Edited by Baddie on Tuesday 29th April 23:19
Baddie said:
At the risk of throwing cats amongst pidgeons - the E34 M5 is a more stimulating car, noisy enough at idle to rattle house windows and doors (but still refined when you're in it), less isolation from the road (though no worse for road noise), mechanical rose-jointed as opposed to electronic throttle, no traction control (which you don't need because the chassis is so benign it makes you feel like Schuey). The E34 also seems to ride a little softer, as it is further away from the era of the ultimate NS lap time. Lap time may be a bigger priority for you than for me, as I'm a country-road driver and can't afford to thrash my cars on track. Predictability is therefore a priority for me.
Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
For me total opposite I am afraid - Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
Edited by Baddie on Tuesday 29th April 23:19
I have owned both an early (1990) 3.6 litre e34 ///M5 and also a later (1995) 3.8 litre sixspeed big brake Limited Edition e34 ///M5.
I now have an e39 ///M5 (facelift) and can honestly say that (personally speaking) it is the fastest, safest and most entertaining out of the three !
The low down torque is awesome, it pulls in ANY of the six gears at ANY revs whereas the big sixes lacked torque- even the 3.8 in comparison sometimes left me a few car lentghs down out of an island to a modest family hatch if the right gear was not selected.
Everything feels so right in the e39 ///M5, the way the car rocks to the big V8 on start up, that V8 burble at idle, the redline lower down when cold so as not to over rev until fluids warmed, precise switch gear, firm yet comfortable suspension communicating with you, and I have still to mention the sport button, endless pull throughout the rev range, better fuel economy, cheaper services, no nightmares on edc failure as per e34 3.8's.
Dont get me wrong I have enjoyed every ///M5 I have been fortunate to own but for me, 400bhp V8 e39 ///M5 is the one to have "ultimate driving machine" it is just so right !
gavm5 said:
Baddie said:
At the risk of throwing cats amongst pidgeons - the E34 M5 is a more stimulating car, noisy enough at idle to rattle house windows and doors (but still refined when you're in it), less isolation from the road (though no worse for road noise), mechanical rose-jointed as opposed to electronic throttle, no traction control (which you don't need because the chassis is so benign it makes you feel like Schuey). The E34 also seems to ride a little softer, as it is further away from the era of the ultimate NS lap time. Lap time may be a bigger priority for you than for me, as I'm a country-road driver and can't afford to thrash my cars on track. Predictability is therefore a priority for me.
Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
For me total opposite I am afraid - Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
Edited by Baddie on Tuesday 29th April 23:19
I have owned both an early (1990) 3.6 litre e34 ///M5 and also a later (1995) 3.8 litre sixspeed big brake Limited Edition e34 ///M5.
I now have an e39 ///M5 (facelift) and can honestly say that (personally speaking) it is the fastest, safest and most entertaining out of the three !
The low down torque is awesome, it pulls in ANY of the six gears at ANY revs whereas the big sixes lacked torque- even the 3.8 in comparison sometimes left me a few car lentghs down out of an island to a modest family hatch if the right gear was not selected.
Everything feels so right in the e39 ///M5, the way the car rocks to the big V8 on start up, that V8 burble at idle, the redline lower down when cold so as not to over rev until fluids warmed, precise switch gear, firm yet comfortable suspension communicating with you, and I have still to mention the sport button, endless pull throughout the rev range, better fuel economy, cheaper services, no nightmares on edc failure as per e34 3.8's.
Dont get me wrong I have enjoyed every ///M5 I have been fortunate to own but for me, 400bhp V8 e39 ///M5 is the one to have "ultimate driving machine" it is just so right !
I'm not meaning this to sound like i'm having a go, as everybody has different opinions, but the electronic gimmicks on the E39 i always thought let it down. I don't need to be told not to rev it hard when cold, mine has the most fantastic burble at idle, the switch gear and feedback are the best out of any car i've driven, and the running costs, whilst expensive, pale in comparison to what it can cost to run an E39.
I have so far spent in the region of £8000 to get mine almost mechanically perfect, and as with all cars you can get good ones and bad ones. I bought mine with the knowledge i would need to spend a good amount of money on it. It after all is 13 years old and has 100k on the clock. Tales of wallet wilting £20k running costs/warrenty issues over 3 years for the E39 are enough to make even an E34 3.8 owner cry.
At the end of the day it is down to personal opinion, and thankfully every still has theirs. I will always side with the E34, but then again i'm rather biased as i adore mine and can't think of anything i could replace it with. The best suggestion i can come up with is to drive a good example of both and then decide, after all it's you cash you'll be spending!!
BOR said:
D_T_W said:
Tales of wallet wilting £20k running costs/warrenty issues over 3 years for the E39...
DT, is THAT really true, or internet myth ?
king ridiculous
D_T_W said:
gavm5 said:
Baddie said:
At the risk of throwing cats amongst pidgeons - the E34 M5 is a more stimulating car, noisy enough at idle to rattle house windows and doors (but still refined when you're in it), less isolation from the road (though no worse for road noise), mechanical rose-jointed as opposed to electronic throttle, no traction control (which you don't need because the chassis is so benign it makes you feel like Schuey). The E34 also seems to ride a little softer, as it is further away from the era of the ultimate NS lap time. Lap time may be a bigger priority for you than for me, as I'm a country-road driver and can't afford to thrash my cars on track. Predictability is therefore a priority for me.
Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
For me total opposite I am afraid - Having said that the E39 is safer, quieter, smoother, more confortable, more automated (lights/wipers/parking sensors etc), and less aurally obtrusive. It's a more modern car, and is also quicker still - very much so at low revs. The E34 requires more effort to go quickly - which is no bad thing really.
I've just sold an E39 530i Sport (255 rear tyres) that could corner quicker than the E34 M5 (my second) I've replaced it with. The 530 was quicker round bends, and had a more consistent power delivery, but was dull unless you were driving fit to have an accident when it became a very impressive car. Except in the wet when the detachment from the road, the electronic throttle, the DSC could not match the predictability of the E34 with its LSD, mechanical throttle, and oh-so-relaxed chassis. I could have had a significant accident in the E39 in a low-grip situation I felt the E34 would have told me about before things got messy. Overall I feel safer AND more thrilled in the E34 M5 - so where's the downside?? (I'll tell you - the odd breakdown!!)
Having said all this I will say if you've set your heart on the E39 - do it! You won't regret any M5 ownership if you go into it with your pockets open, and all the cars are phenomenal machines on a different level from any other 5 series, and probably any other saloon car. The Audi RS4 scores well largely because of the novelty value of anything getting close to Bimmer's absolute finest.
If you are not definitely set on an E39, just get someone to let you sample the S38 climb it's rev range in a tunnel.......
Edited by Baddie on Tuesday 29th April 23:19
I have owned both an early (1990) 3.6 litre e34 ///M5 and also a later (1995) 3.8 litre sixspeed big brake Limited Edition e34 ///M5.
I now have an e39 ///M5 (facelift) and can honestly say that (personally speaking) it is the fastest, safest and most entertaining out of the three !
The low down torque is awesome, it pulls in ANY of the six gears at ANY revs whereas the big sixes lacked torque- even the 3.8 in comparison sometimes left me a few car lentghs down out of an island to a modest family hatch if the right gear was not selected.
Everything feels so right in the e39 ///M5, the way the car rocks to the big V8 on start up, that V8 burble at idle, the redline lower down when cold so as not to over rev until fluids warmed, precise switch gear, firm yet comfortable suspension communicating with you, and I have still to mention the sport button, endless pull throughout the rev range, better fuel economy, cheaper services, no nightmares on edc failure as per e34 3.8's.
Dont get me wrong I have enjoyed every ///M5 I have been fortunate to own but for me, 400bhp V8 e39 ///M5 is the one to have "ultimate driving machine" it is just so right !
I'm not meaning this to sound like i'm having a go, as everybody has different opinions, but the electronic gimmicks on the E39 i always thought let it down. I don't need to be told not to rev it hard when cold, mine has the most fantastic burble at idle, the switch gear and feedback are the best out of any car i've driven, and the running costs, whilst expensive, pale in comparison to what it can cost to run an E39.
I have so far spent in the region of £8000 to get mine almost mechanically perfect, and as with all cars you can get good ones and bad ones. I bought mine with the knowledge i would need to spend a good amount of money on it. It after all is 13 years old and has 100k on the clock. Tales of wallet wilting £20k running costs/warrenty issues over 3 years for the E39 are enough to make even an E34 3.8 owner cry.
At the end of the day it is down to personal opinion, and thankfully every still has theirs. I will always side with the E34, but then again i'm rather biased as i adore mine and can't think of anything i could replace it with. The best suggestion i can come up with is to drive a good example of both and then decide, after all it's you cash you'll be spending!!
All of these cars are a big-stakes reliability lucky dip. My reading was that the E39 was more of a chancer's game with potentially bigger pitfalls (and Ashok's E60 the biggest of all). If the E39 produces better fuel economy I can only put it down to the UK being too small to enjoy its Autobahn smashing performance so you just waft around in sixth everywhere - it's not what I'd heard about a mate's E39 but he drives like a nutter.
Apart from the passive safety, the one thing I think is a big improvement on the E39 is the low rev torque, but then again there is something special about waiting for the moment when you WILL leave everything else behind, makes you appreciate the moment all the more. If you want torque a 535d has more than any of them.;)
In my experience DSC is not a big safety enhancement, in a year the only time I really needed it to do something to my horror it did nothing. When it did cut in I was usually expecting it and had already started to do something.
EDC will soon no longer be the issue it was - check m5board.
The appeal of this debate is especially acute for those with their purchase money still in their pockets - to still be deciding what M5 to buy is an exquisite pleasure, enjoy every moment. Best of luck whichever car you go for, you will be happy, and you will not be able to go back to normal motoring.
Anwar
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