Suspension wizard wanted
Discussion
I want to upgrade the handling and feel of my '96 MR2 Turbo, but am having some difficulty planning the "upgrade path".
When I read up on the various elements, almost ALL of them have great feedback ("these really transformed the handling / steering feel!"). As such, its hard to know which parts to look at first. More importantly, its hard to get an idea of how certain parts will work in isolation or in conjunction with others.
The options I am looking at are:
Thicker anti roll bars
Strut tower bar (or any type of chassis brace e.g. subframe connectors, sway bars etc)
Poly bushes (some of them? all of them?)
Lower & stiffer springs
Pillow ball mounts
Pillow ball tension rod / torque rod
My car already has yellow Blistein shocks on it, which are reputedly pretty good, and are in good condition. The car doesnt get much track time so I'm not intersted in coilovers or anything that makes major sacrificies in ride quality for ultimate cornering, or that is more suited to flat ractracks than our bumpy roads. In fact, more composure over bumps is something I want to add.
My priorities:
More composure over bumps
Better steering feel when cornering
Ideally, i would love to drop into a workshop and have someone explain to me what the pros and cons are - can anyone recommend?
I'm london based, btw. Thanks chaps
/edit: I've already had a laser alignment at Wheels in Motion. Those guys are great, but I wasnt sure whether they got involved with the oily bits of suspension as well, or just wheels & tires?
When I read up on the various elements, almost ALL of them have great feedback ("these really transformed the handling / steering feel!"). As such, its hard to know which parts to look at first. More importantly, its hard to get an idea of how certain parts will work in isolation or in conjunction with others.
The options I am looking at are:
Thicker anti roll bars
Strut tower bar (or any type of chassis brace e.g. subframe connectors, sway bars etc)
Poly bushes (some of them? all of them?)
Lower & stiffer springs
Pillow ball mounts
Pillow ball tension rod / torque rod
My car already has yellow Blistein shocks on it, which are reputedly pretty good, and are in good condition. The car doesnt get much track time so I'm not intersted in coilovers or anything that makes major sacrificies in ride quality for ultimate cornering, or that is more suited to flat ractracks than our bumpy roads. In fact, more composure over bumps is something I want to add.
My priorities:
More composure over bumps
Better steering feel when cornering
Ideally, i would love to drop into a workshop and have someone explain to me what the pros and cons are - can anyone recommend?
I'm london based, btw. Thanks chaps
/edit: I've already had a laser alignment at Wheels in Motion. Those guys are great, but I wasnt sure whether they got involved with the oily bits of suspension as well, or just wheels & tires?
Edited by Wadeski on Thursday 18th September 12:40
Edited by Wadeski on Thursday 18th September 23:19
I t'aint no guru, but if you're wanting to maintain ride quality then the pillow ball stuff would be a no-no.
Poly bushes are generally good but will potentially reduce ride quality. Usually liveable though.
I think you're ideas on chassis braces, subframe connectors is good though. Getting the chassis nice and tight so the suspension isn't fighting against chassis flex and can get on with what it's supposed to do is helpful. Looooong time ago a fitted a brace to my old MX5, simple bar that fitted across the bottom of the trans-tunnel, and that made a noticeable difference. As did driving with the hardtop on, similar to the effect you get with strut braces I guess.
Anyway, with any luck a real guru will show up soon
Cheers,
Rob
Poly bushes are generally good but will potentially reduce ride quality. Usually liveable though.
I think you're ideas on chassis braces, subframe connectors is good though. Getting the chassis nice and tight so the suspension isn't fighting against chassis flex and can get on with what it's supposed to do is helpful. Looooong time ago a fitted a brace to my old MX5, simple bar that fitted across the bottom of the trans-tunnel, and that made a noticeable difference. As did driving with the hardtop on, similar to the effect you get with strut braces I guess.
Anyway, with any luck a real guru will show up soon
Cheers,
Rob
No guru either but steering feel will unlikely be helped greatly by the suspension for that you would want to be looking at the rack and steering system rather than the suspension, you will get some differences if you change tyre profile and bushes on your control arms etc not masses mind.
As for the rest anti roll bars will help greatly just be careful not to go to stiff on the rear as your break away point could be less progressive, the one other thing I would recommend purely for improved driving is corner weighting you should be able to find someone local to do it
As for the rest anti roll bars will help greatly just be careful not to go to stiff on the rear as your break away point could be less progressive, the one other thing I would recommend purely for improved driving is corner weighting you should be able to find someone local to do it
From what you have said it sounds like tying your chassis down is the best starting point for you, get strut braces, and any other links/braces available to stiffen up the shell and locate your suspension points rigidly then go from there.
Seems an obvious comment but is the car rolling already? If not then thicker anti roll bars will probably not help and will only serve to make the car twitchier, if however it is rolling (will be unusual for an MR2) then by all means stiffen the front up slightly, I would not go mad on the rear though.
If your going for handling on road soft springs and stiff shocks are hard to beat, when I say stiff shocks though I don't mean knock your teeth out stiff, most road cars will really benefit from standard NEW shocks, a sports option usually at most for me, any more than that and you tend to lose handling over rough roads.
I would really start just with braces though and move from there, polybushes are ok (personally I don't like them) and will certainly locate your suspension better than your now tired rubber bushes, but don't discount new rubber bushes.
And forget solid/pillowball/rose jointed top mounts and suspension bushes if comfort is important.
Seems an obvious comment but is the car rolling already? If not then thicker anti roll bars will probably not help and will only serve to make the car twitchier, if however it is rolling (will be unusual for an MR2) then by all means stiffen the front up slightly, I would not go mad on the rear though.
If your going for handling on road soft springs and stiff shocks are hard to beat, when I say stiff shocks though I don't mean knock your teeth out stiff, most road cars will really benefit from standard NEW shocks, a sports option usually at most for me, any more than that and you tend to lose handling over rough roads.
I would really start just with braces though and move from there, polybushes are ok (personally I don't like them) and will certainly locate your suspension better than your now tired rubber bushes, but don't discount new rubber bushes.
And forget solid/pillowball/rose jointed top mounts and suspension bushes if comfort is important.
For a car of that age illd recommend fitting polybushes on all the suspension components. They are 25% stiffer than the standard rubbers and i would probably go so far to say that the ones on your car would be hard and perished.
Next i would fit some strut braces front mainly and rear if you can afford to lose the space, this will stop the chassis flexing round corners and on undulations, gives you more of a true feel when cornering.
Thicker ARB's will undoubtedly give great handling, Ive always been told that FWD's will benrfit mainly from a Rear bar and RWD's from a front bar. But for best results front and rear will be better. Ive learnt that you do get a but of a harsher ride but they give you the handling characteristics of coilovers but not the ride.
Another thing which i think is possible on the MR2 is getting adjustable arms to get the cambers and toes perfectly set-up, if the car is lowered undoubtedly your setting will prob be all over the place.
Next i would fit some strut braces front mainly and rear if you can afford to lose the space, this will stop the chassis flexing round corners and on undulations, gives you more of a true feel when cornering.
Thicker ARB's will undoubtedly give great handling, Ive always been told that FWD's will benrfit mainly from a Rear bar and RWD's from a front bar. But for best results front and rear will be better. Ive learnt that you do get a but of a harsher ride but they give you the handling characteristics of coilovers but not the ride.
Another thing which i think is possible on the MR2 is getting adjustable arms to get the cambers and toes perfectly set-up, if the car is lowered undoubtedly your setting will prob be all over the place.
Then I hope you didn't mean what you said about ride quality. Anything with a spherical bearing (i.e. "pillow ball") instead of a bush will considerably increase road noise etc. Go for polybushes if you really need to stiffen things up, but new standard bushes would likely make a big difference and don't suffer from the downsides of polyurethane.
How old are the Bilsteins? For what is a fairly premium brand, they don't tend to last very long on MR2s, mine were rattling after 60k miles (replacing the original OEM Bilsteins that were utterly shot after 60k).
How old are the Bilsteins? For what is a fairly premium brand, they don't tend to last very long on MR2s, mine were rattling after 60k miles (replacing the original OEM Bilsteins that were utterly shot after 60k).
hey mike,
Thats why I'm going to go with the bushes all around first. As you say, it might tighten things up enough. At the moment the steering feels a little "dead" around the centre, and when cornering it just doesnt feed back enough.
The rear billies are only a year old, and I'm replacing the front ones (which are older) soon. It could also be that the difference in wear between the shocks is affecting things.
if it still isnt tight enough, then ill tighten up the chassis, and go with the pillow ball rods.
Thats why I'm going to go with the bushes all around first. As you say, it might tighten things up enough. At the moment the steering feels a little "dead" around the centre, and when cornering it just doesnt feed back enough.
The rear billies are only a year old, and I'm replacing the front ones (which are older) soon. It could also be that the difference in wear between the shocks is affecting things.
if it still isnt tight enough, then ill tighten up the chassis, and go with the pillow ball rods.
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