Best Porsche for tracdays, limited budget
Discussion
With a budget of 30-35k (preferring 30 and under frankly), what is the best Porsche for trackdays?
I really want a RHD too, although I can put up with stripped out cabin etc (got an Elise at the moment). This pretty much rules out the 964RS I think?
Also how much do these cost to track. The Elise is reasonably cheap, but I worry about the cost of consumables for a tracking a Porsche of any type.
RHD 964RS fits the bill, despite your budget. They are rare, though. I would reconsider LHD if at all possible.
I am not aware of any other production Porsche within your budget that would come as close to an Elise as a 964RS (except a LHD 993RS). The 968CS is good, but half the price and with maybe too little power to worry an Elise on track.
Running costs will be higher, but still reasonable. The quality of the car is much better than the Elise, so things should break less often.
I am not aware of any other production Porsche within your budget that would come as close to an Elise as a 964RS (except a LHD 993RS). The 968CS is good, but half the price and with maybe too little power to worry an Elise on track.
Running costs will be higher, but still reasonable. The quality of the car is much better than the Elise, so things should break less often.
Apart from struggling to get my head round £35k on a track toy being described as a limited budget!
all the suggestions made so far I agree with.
The elise is a fab little tool but really not that quick & will not soak up the abuse a porsche can- see the what price rarety thread for how a 993 RS can survive hard track use with just normal servicing.
You could also get an early 996 cup car for that budget will be LHD tho, a genuine LHD '73 RS, a whole host of ex race 911's for example a RHD 3.2 would be a good choice & available for sub £15k.
A myrid of options.
all the suggestions made so far I agree with.
The elise is a fab little tool but really not that quick & will not soak up the abuse a porsche can- see the what price rarety thread for how a 993 RS can survive hard track use with just normal servicing.
You could also get an early 996 cup car for that budget will be LHD tho, a genuine LHD '73 RS, a whole host of ex race 911's for example a RHD 3.2 would be a good choice & available for sub £15k.
A myrid of options.
For that money you could get a two year old Boxster S. 252bhp 12xx kilos. It'll handle more like your Elise (mid engined) is great fun on-track and has the bonus of being a "normal" car as well...!
Go for the 17" tyres to reduce replacement costs as you'll (want to) wear them out. I have 18"s and love 'em but they're not cheap. Especially if you go for Michelin Pilot Sport "Cup" tyres for extra track day grip.
But all that said...why on earth do you want a Porsche (much as I love them)...if you need the car to be a track/everyday compromise you should really think about the BoxS. If you don't need a compromise then why buy a car capable of touring Europe in?
Radical. Caterham. etc etc.
Just a thought. BTW: dom's 964RS is the absolute dogs doodads if you love 911s...too raw for me...but what a lovely car..
Go for the 17" tyres to reduce replacement costs as you'll (want to) wear them out. I have 18"s and love 'em but they're not cheap. Especially if you go for Michelin Pilot Sport "Cup" tyres for extra track day grip.
But all that said...why on earth do you want a Porsche (much as I love them)...if you need the car to be a track/everyday compromise you should really think about the BoxS. If you don't need a compromise then why buy a car capable of touring Europe in?
Radical. Caterham. etc etc.
Just a thought. BTW: dom's 964RS is the absolute dogs doodads if you love 911s...too raw for me...but what a lovely car..
30 - 35k is a limited budget 
For a track car I've gotta stick my oar in for the 944 Turbo
coz I am biased like that 
10k will get you a good one with M030 suspension, you can fit a set of full slicks in the boot for under £400, and for a few hundred quid you can be pushing out around 300bhp, for a few thousand that can be around the 400bhp mark.
If you want to be real dedicated there are ex 944 Turbo Cup race cars around for 15k, these are stripped to 1100kg and have 300bhp. They were the first 'Cup' cars and because they don't have the same image will never be as expensive as the 911 variants.
Go down this route and very little will be able to keep up on track and you'll still have change for one of the 2.5 Boxsters or something larger if you like.
For a track car I've gotta stick my oar in for the 944 Turbo
coz I am biased like that 10k will get you a good one with M030 suspension, you can fit a set of full slicks in the boot for under £400, and for a few hundred quid you can be pushing out around 300bhp, for a few thousand that can be around the 400bhp mark. If you want to be real dedicated there are ex 944 Turbo Cup race cars around for 15k, these are stripped to 1100kg and have 300bhp. They were the first 'Cup' cars and because they don't have the same image will never be as expensive as the 911 variants.
Go down this route and very little will be able to keep up on track and you'll still have change for one of the 2.5 Boxsters or something larger if you like.
Well when I say 30-35k this has to be useable as my main car, as per my Elise. I gave that figure as thats about what the Exige S2 will cost, and I have a refundable deposit on one (bit disappointed with the pics in this weeks autocar to be honest).
Just thinking that I would avoid the huge residual hit from early ownership, and always fancied a nice Porsche. Do people really track 964RS as regularly as Elises etc? Just wondering if its really in the same ballpark cost wise.
I ask as my friend has a noble, and the costs of consumables are pretty hideous compared to what I'm used to.
What are regular 996 C2s like on track? Guessing expensive on brakes/disks etc? Really fancy an older 996 GT3, but in dreamland, and again probably not ideal for regular track use
Not too big a fan of Boxsters - no disrespect to the owners. Just like it all a bit more raw which is why I have the Elise.
p.s. amused you suggest keeping the Elise as the road car
Never heard that suggested before. Not got the parking though 
In an ideal world it would be a 340R and a GT3. >> Edited by DanH on Tuesday 23 September 23:18
DanH said:
Well when I say 30-35k this has to be useable as my main car, as per my Elise.
Unless you are a glutton for punishment that rules out the more extreme Porsches. Any Porsche is going to be harder on tyres than your Elise and a 996/Boxster certainly will be.
You clearly need to go and look at a few at one of the big independents and decide what you really want. A 996 will be an excellent daily driver and is track capable - but at a higher cost than the Elise in terms of discs, pads and tyres.
And try a BoxS! You may be surprised...
tony.t said:
Buy a 964C2 £12-18k, fit; new springs and dampers £1.5k, motec or MAF £2-4K, RS flywheel + clutch £1.5k, turbo brakes max £3k, sport seats £1.5k, catbypass cup pipe £0.5K.
A stock RS won`t keep up on track
1. I doubt it. The stock motor can push out up to 290bhp in an RS without MAF or Motec. A C2 with MAF will get a max of 290-295bhp and 9M gets 320bhp with Motec. So where will the perfomance advantage come from... 5-30bhp is not a lot when you consider that an RS will still be lighter and handle sweeter. There is more to an RS than the tweeks you mention above. This is a common fallacy - it is not a mildly breathed on C2, it is almost a completely different car, certainly to drive.
2. What's the sodding point - you can get an RS for 23k anyway?!!!
You have about 10k of mods onto a 12-18k car. Okay, you could do a RHD one, but that is still 28k at the upper end and you can get RHD 964RSs for 30k. Besides, RSs don't depreciate much these days, but modified C2s are worth what people will pay for them. In answer to some other points, if you've ever been to the nurburgring you'll see that the 964RS tend to be weapon of choice for arguably the most torturous track on the planet. These cars were the basis of the Cup Series race cars, so they are more track-durable than Elises out of the box, which are road sports cars. So yes, they have a harsher ride, but no worse than a Caterham 7 (I have owned a couple). If you are into trackdays, the whole 'harsh ride' thing is a bit overstated. I take cars back to the showroom if they don't rattle my teeth these days
Melv - you are too slow, mate, I was already there
Diver - quite like the modded 944 turbo idea, but definitely need the M030 and a few tweeks. Maybe lighten it a bit, too.
Don - the Box S is a great multipurpose Porsche for that everyday role. Depends on what the mix of track to daily driving is, or how hardcore you are. I used my 964RS everyday for a 70 mile commute without too many probs
ATB
Domster
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 24th September 09:42
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 24th September 10:29
domster said:
Don - the Box S is a great multipurpose Porsche for that everyday role. Depends on what the mix of track to daily driving is, or how hardcore you are. I used my 964RS everyday for a 70 mile commute without too many probs
Quite right. And whether or not you want the roof to come off and the inevitable compromises that brings...
Ahh. The Red Baron is a lovely car...one day perhaps I'll see it on track doing its thing...its a shame it wasn't ready for Silverstone. Next year!
Agree with Domster. An RS is not just a lowered C2 with bodykit.
Your choices boil down to
1. 968CS (preferably with M030)
2. 964RS
The CS is cheaper, costs less to run and is arguably sweeter-handling. The RS is faster and much more exciting, but more expensive. Aim to spend £10-15k for a good CS with M030 and then spend the rest on track time, tyres and maintenance.
Or aim to spend £25-35k on a good RS and sit back and enjoy one of the best track cars ever built.
... And forget RHD. LHD is better.
Not that I'm biased because I own one and am (sob) selling it.....
Your choices boil down to
1. 968CS (preferably with M030)
2. 964RS
The CS is cheaper, costs less to run and is arguably sweeter-handling. The RS is faster and much more exciting, but more expensive. Aim to spend £10-15k for a good CS with M030 and then spend the rest on track time, tyres and maintenance.
Or aim to spend £25-35k on a good RS and sit back and enjoy one of the best track cars ever built.
... And forget RHD. LHD is better.
Not that I'm biased because I own one and am (sob) selling it.....
Thanks for the info folks. Part of the reason I fancied a 964RS was the more progressive oversteer than in an Elise which is more snappy that I like. Not sure it makes much sense though now that you've all made these points.
I don't do much driving except for the pure joy of it since I walk to work each day, so practicality isn't really that big an issue.
Where does one find RHD 964RSs? I haven't seen any for sale, and even LHD ones are up at 35k...
Also why are 993RSs so expensive? Speculators, or was it always bloody expensive. If its speculators, it seems a bit silly as the 964s seem to only be valuable because of the track day thing, and who's going to pay the kind of premium 993RSs have to thrash it on the track.
---
Hmm Rubystone would you be the chap who broke your front wing on a run in Essex?
If so I really didn't like the caterham I drove. Just not set up well for me as my legs were too long for how the pedal box was set up. Not to mention the brake being WAY higher than the throttle which I found really uncomfortable (and made H&T impossible). Put me off caterhams for life
Hmmm, not sure you get a 964RS for more progressive oversteer
The car you need is definitely a 968CS. They are very friendly on the limit.
They only made 40 RHD 964RSs, but these only come up now and again (but they do come up). Rubystone saw one for 30k recently, IIRC, but high miles. They made lots of RHD 968CSs, and over 2000 LHD 964RSs.
It isn't speculation that keeps RS prices high. It is simply that they don't make Porsche like these anymore. The rawness has gone and a polished sophistication has set in. Even the new GT3, as beautiful a car as it is, lacks the visceral thrill of some of the earlier models.
IMO, you pay a hefty premium for the 993RS because it has: arguably better, friendlier suspension (really noticed on road not on track, where abilities tend to be closer); more modern looks; and because it's 4 years newer.
The car you need is definitely a 968CS. They are very friendly on the limit.
They only made 40 RHD 964RSs, but these only come up now and again (but they do come up). Rubystone saw one for 30k recently, IIRC, but high miles. They made lots of RHD 968CSs, and over 2000 LHD 964RSs.
It isn't speculation that keeps RS prices high. It is simply that they don't make Porsche like these anymore. The rawness has gone and a polished sophistication has set in. Even the new GT3, as beautiful a car as it is, lacks the visceral thrill of some of the earlier models.
IMO, you pay a hefty premium for the 993RS because it has: arguably better, friendlier suspension (really noticed on road not on track, where abilities tend to be closer); more modern looks; and because it's 4 years newer.
Got it in 1 Dan - and it was a wheel rim I damaged - I cracked the carbon wing on a cone at North Weald. 
I didn't ever notice any progressive oversteer in my RS...it held on, held on and held on and then suddenly let go. I don't really think there's any 911 that delivers progressive oversteer is there?...and the floor hinged pedal set up can maeit difficult to heel & toe too.
RHD RSs do come up from time to time (it was a Touring that I saw for just under £30k a while back)and if you've found a lhd one for £35k it must be for sale at one of our "favourite" dealers who often come up for discussion on PH. Check out the classifieds on PH right now IIRC there were a couple on there recently.
I didn't ever notice any progressive oversteer in my RS...it held on, held on and held on and then suddenly let go. I don't really think there's any 911 that delivers progressive oversteer is there?...and the floor hinged pedal set up can maeit difficult to heel & toe too.
RHD RSs do come up from time to time (it was a Touring that I saw for just under £30k a while back)and if you've found a lhd one for £35k it must be for sale at one of our "favourite" dealers who often come up for discussion on PH. Check out the classifieds on PH right now IIRC there were a couple on there recently.
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