Bilt Hamber Auto Clay
Discussion
I tried this out today, does anyone else have any experience of this product?
The theory of it is great as you can use it right after you've washed the car on wet paintwork but there were no directions for it's use and I suspect I might be doing something wrong.
I rinsed the car first, the washed with Zymol shampoo and a mitt. Rinsed again and clayed the paintwork. When I leathered it off there were hazy marks covering the panel I had clayed. A thin layer of Lime Prime took it off and the feel of the paintwork afterwards was fantastic, but the marks were still faintly visible.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
The theory of it is great as you can use it right after you've washed the car on wet paintwork but there were no directions for it's use and I suspect I might be doing something wrong.
I rinsed the car first, the washed with Zymol shampoo and a mitt. Rinsed again and clayed the paintwork. When I leathered it off there were hazy marks covering the panel I had clayed. A thin layer of Lime Prime took it off and the feel of the paintwork afterwards was fantastic, but the marks were still faintly visible.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete
Did you use any clay bar lube?
If you used it 'dry' then clays can create marring of the surface... looks like a mottled effect.
You can use water as a clay bar lube with the BH clay (as you can with most clays in reality) but it is always better to use a strong shampoo solution or a water based quick detail spray (assuming you don't have a dedicated clay lube).
If it has marred the surface, the effect will polish out, but far easier by machine than by hand.
If you used it 'dry' then clays can create marring of the surface... looks like a mottled effect.
You can use water as a clay bar lube with the BH clay (as you can with most clays in reality) but it is always better to use a strong shampoo solution or a water based quick detail spray (assuming you don't have a dedicated clay lube).
If it has marred the surface, the effect will polish out, but far easier by machine than by hand.
On the first application I used it with very wet, just washed paintwork, the second time I used it with the shampoo but it didn't seem to make a difference. The clay seems to be very good at removing contaminants from the paint so I'm generally pleased with it just concerned I'm doing something wrong.
I hope your not getting confused with the marks are not actually slight swirls etc which were there before you clayed ?
If so you will have to be cut back !!
The lime prime will slightly fill in such problems i believe as it has some glaze type oils ( never used it but dom will correct me if i am wrong)..
If so you will have to be cut back !!
The lime prime will slightly fill in such problems i believe as it has some glaze type oils ( never used it but dom will correct me if i am wrong)..
Their auto clay is am marvellous product but will only remove surface contaminents, not swirl marks or shallow clearcoat stratches. To remove these you either need a cutting polish and a rotary or a decent filler, like their Auto-Balm.
The Lime Prime helps prepare the surface for additional Dodo Juice waxes but I am not so sure has any real fillers. More of a glaze I believe.
The Lime Prime helps prepare the surface for additional Dodo Juice waxes but I am not so sure has any real fillers. More of a glaze I believe.
It did feel like it was clinging to the paint a bit but the marks it left were definately above the swirls and scratches in the same uniform direction I had been claying. For want of a better description, it looked like I'd been rubbing cheese into it, or a rubber or something. I tried to get some photos but I couldn't pick them up with a lens.
Sounds like you either weren't using enough water in a sprayer or from the hose spray head to keep the bar gliding over the surface on the thin film of water it should do, or you were a bit heavy handed, using more pressure than needed.
Did you get the blue container bar, or the semi-transparent one?
If the former, then chances are the cold water you used, caused it to harden, and you really need the piece used cut in half, with one in a cup or warm water, and switch back and forth, using warm water in the spray bottle too.
If the latter (the new stickier soft clay), then as already suggested - too much pressure and/or not enough water to float the bar on.
Easily done, and you'll know for next time to be more liberal with the water, and use a bit of a lighter touch.
There's instructions on the website, I believe: click me
Did you get the blue container bar, or the semi-transparent one?
If the former, then chances are the cold water you used, caused it to harden, and you really need the piece used cut in half, with one in a cup or warm water, and switch back and forth, using warm water in the spray bottle too.
If the latter (the new stickier soft clay), then as already suggested - too much pressure and/or not enough water to float the bar on.
Easily done, and you'll know for next time to be more liberal with the water, and use a bit of a lighter touch.
There's instructions on the website, I believe: click me
domster said:
Did you use any clay bar lube?
If you used it 'dry' then clays can create marring of the surface... looks like a mottled effect.
You can use water as a clay bar lube with the BH clay (as you can with most clays in reality) but it is always better to use a strong shampoo solution or a water based quick detail spray (assuming you don't have a dedicated clay lube).
If it has marred the surface, the effect will polish out, but far easier by machine than by hand.
Strong? Weak, I think you meant.If you used it 'dry' then clays can create marring of the surface... looks like a mottled effect.
You can use water as a clay bar lube with the BH clay (as you can with most clays in reality) but it is always better to use a strong shampoo solution or a water based quick detail spray (assuming you don't have a dedicated clay lube).
If it has marred the surface, the effect will polish out, but far easier by machine than by hand.
Oh, OT, devil muffs en route - drop me an e-mail/quick call.
Hi Phil 
I meant strong as in you'd normally dilute shampoo 300:1 or something, but as a clay lube you'd want it to be thicker and more lubricious, so a 20:1 solution would work well. Each to their own with clay lubes - they're almost a matter of personal preference.
Lime Prime has no fillers, but does leave behind some glaze oils... won't fill much but may mask the marring a little due to 'wetting' the surface slightly.
Phil - I'll email re devil muffs
I meant strong as in you'd normally dilute shampoo 300:1 or something, but as a clay lube you'd want it to be thicker and more lubricious, so a 20:1 solution would work well. Each to their own with clay lubes - they're almost a matter of personal preference.
Lime Prime has no fillers, but does leave behind some glaze oils... won't fill much but may mask the marring a little due to 'wetting' the surface slightly.
Phil - I'll email re devil muffs
Have you tried yours out at 20:1 with BTBM then?
I'd have imagined that's far too strong not to have an effect on the clay, as you know some clays can crumble with shampoo solution.
I'd be more inclined to use a 100-200:1 mix, after all you don't want the sprayer putting out bubbles/foam, and you certainly don't want that drying on the car, which it's likely to by the time you get round all of it.
Not an issue to a degree if you rinse each panel as you go, I suppose.
I know BH themselves have said there's no issue with using a QD based/type lube, nor shampoo solution - but even so.
Speak to you soon.
I'd have imagined that's far too strong not to have an effect on the clay, as you know some clays can crumble with shampoo solution.
I'd be more inclined to use a 100-200:1 mix, after all you don't want the sprayer putting out bubbles/foam, and you certainly don't want that drying on the car, which it's likely to by the time you get round all of it.
Not an issue to a degree if you rinse each panel as you go, I suppose.
I know BH themselves have said there's no issue with using a QD based/type lube, nor shampoo solution - but even so.
Speak to you soon.
PJ S said:
Have you tried yours out at 20:1 with BTBM then?
I'd have imagined that's far too strong not to have an effect on the clay, as you know some clays can crumble with shampoo solution.
I'd be more inclined to use a 100-200:1 mix, after all you don't want the sprayer putting out bubbles/foam, and you certainly don't want that drying on the car, which it's likely to by the time you get round all of it.
Not an issue to a degree if you rinse each panel as you go, I suppose.
I know BH themselves have said there's no issue with using a QD based/type lube, nor shampoo solution - but even so.
Speak to you soon.
Hi PhilI'd have imagined that's far too strong not to have an effect on the clay, as you know some clays can crumble with shampoo solution.
I'd be more inclined to use a 100-200:1 mix, after all you don't want the sprayer putting out bubbles/foam, and you certainly don't want that drying on the car, which it's likely to by the time you get round all of it.
Not an issue to a degree if you rinse each panel as you go, I suppose.
I know BH themselves have said there's no issue with using a QD based/type lube, nor shampoo solution - but even so.
Speak to you soon.
Strong shampoo solutions shouldn't affect clays - QDs are more likely to 'melt' them as they often have a similar solvent base. Generally shampoos are water-based and clay is petrochemical solvent based, so one can't melt or crumble the other. However, yes, I have used BTBM as concentrated as 3:1 with our clays and it is fine, although too sticky at that concentration and it tends to lather... so not recommended although it probably cleans nicely!
I would stay clear of using something like Z8 as a clay lube for instance, although that would be unlikely as it would be a waste of a pricey product, as that could melt clay due to solvent content.
domster said:
PJ S said:
Have you tried yours out at 20:1 with BTBM then?
I'd have imagined that's far too strong not to have an effect on the clay, as you know some clays can crumble with shampoo solution.
I'd be more inclined to use a 100-200:1 mix, after all you don't want the sprayer putting out bubbles/foam, and you certainly don't want that drying on the car, which it's likely to by the time you get round all of it.
Not an issue to a degree if you rinse each panel as you go, I suppose.
I know BH themselves have said there's no issue with using a QD based/type lube, nor shampoo solution - but even so.
Speak to you soon.
Hi PhilI'd have imagined that's far too strong not to have an effect on the clay, as you know some clays can crumble with shampoo solution.
I'd be more inclined to use a 100-200:1 mix, after all you don't want the sprayer putting out bubbles/foam, and you certainly don't want that drying on the car, which it's likely to by the time you get round all of it.
Not an issue to a degree if you rinse each panel as you go, I suppose.
I know BH themselves have said there's no issue with using a QD based/type lube, nor shampoo solution - but even so.
Speak to you soon.
Strong shampoo solutions shouldn't affect clays - QDs are more likely to 'melt' them as they often have a similar solvent base. Generally shampoos are water-based and clay is petrochemical solvent based, so one can't melt or crumble the other. However, yes, I have used BTBM as concentrated as 3:1 with our clays and it is fine, although too sticky at that concentration and it tends to lather... so not recommended although it probably cleans nicely!
I would stay clear of using something like Z8 as a clay lube for instance, although that would be unlikely as it would be a waste of a pricey product, as that could melt clay due to solvent content.
I'd have to disagree with QD being the arch enemy of clay bars, sure Meg's Last Touch and Quik Detailer are the favourite/provided lubes for their own bars, and others like Sonus.
There's insufficient solvent to harm a clay bar - the shampoo on the other hand has been known to make some brands crumble.
Anyway, back on topic - Autoclay is considered to be pretty impervious to whatever you decide to use with it, if not just ordinary tap water.
Edited by PJ S on Sunday 2nd November 01:07
Nope, I did mean Z8, which is indeed a spray-sealant, but people are using it as a QD because they commonly mistake it for such... high solvent content which could cause problems if used neat. It was an extreme example used to illustrate how shampoos are less of an issue than QDs (or similar products inadvertently used as QDs!). I hadn't heard of the crumbling issue before. Maybe it affects some types of bar more than others. Not experienced it on ours.
But as you say, water can be used.
But as you say, water can be used.
Edited by domster on Sunday 2nd November 00:10
Interesting, never heard or realised some people were using Z8 as a clay lube - it's hardly cost effective since it's not exactly the cheapest of products.
I know it's often mistook as a QD for a wipeover after washing, and could see the odd mistaken use during the drying stage, but claying?
Wow, there really are some very ill-informed people out there, if that's the case.
Would seem Zaino Europe needs to do a better job of communicating more effectively what Z8 is, and its intended usage - which is all there on Zaino's website!
Weird!
As for crumbling, have a look in some of BHL's or BHK's posts over there, and I think it's been mentioned/explained.
Keep us abreast of DJ QD/QS.
I know it's often mistook as a QD for a wipeover after washing, and could see the odd mistaken use during the drying stage, but claying?
Wow, there really are some very ill-informed people out there, if that's the case.
Would seem Zaino Europe needs to do a better job of communicating more effectively what Z8 is, and its intended usage - which is all there on Zaino's website!
Weird!
As for crumbling, have a look in some of BHL's or BHK's posts over there, and I think it's been mentioned/explained.
Keep us abreast of DJ QD/QS.
Hi Phil
I was using the Z8 thing as an extreme theoretical example... I doubt anyone can afford to use it as a clay lube. I was just saying that from a technical point of view a solvent based 'QD' (and some people erroneously identify Z8 as a QD) is more likely to degrade a clay block than a water-based shampoo - but there will be other variables like what cleaning agents/surfactants are in the shampoo. I suppose the answer is a dedicated clay lube and dedicated QD, which is the route we'll go down - products engineered for the purpose. But from an economic point of view, you can't argue with Last Touch or even water
I was using the Z8 thing as an extreme theoretical example... I doubt anyone can afford to use it as a clay lube. I was just saying that from a technical point of view a solvent based 'QD' (and some people erroneously identify Z8 as a QD) is more likely to degrade a clay block than a water-based shampoo - but there will be other variables like what cleaning agents/surfactants are in the shampoo. I suppose the answer is a dedicated clay lube and dedicated QD, which is the route we'll go down - products engineered for the purpose. But from an economic point of view, you can't argue with Last Touch or even water
Hi Dom
Slightly off topic but have spoke to Phil PJS for a long chat and had emails from 360 saying to contact you too!!!
Do really need to speak to at some time and way too much to email !!
Just wrote a long reason why but then removed it just before i posted it as it could give too much away?
Thanks Kelly
Just edit because had to say have got the bbc professional editting some filming of cars i have detailed using supernatural as the last step protection!!
Slightly off topic but have spoke to Phil PJS for a long chat and had emails from 360 saying to contact you too!!!
Do really need to speak to at some time and way too much to email !!
Just wrote a long reason why but then removed it just before i posted it as it could give too much away?
Thanks Kelly
Just edit because had to say have got the bbc professional editting some filming of cars i have detailed using supernatural as the last step protection!!
Edited by kds keltec on Sunday 2nd November 14:05
Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff