Would you ever consider a TVR??
Discussion
No don't worry i'm not about to defect, just that I can really see the appeal of certain models & wondering is it just the reliability issues that would put you off or other reasons?
Dunno if its old age or what but I used to dislike the look of Chimeras, but now Im thinking chims are looking strangely attractive & less stricken by the unreliability woes of more modern stuff.
Then again perhaps its just insanity creeping up on me as I have for some odd reason been thinking about what a great little car (although I freely admit saddled with a girly/hairdresser image) an MX5 is as a runabout, even thought about getting a testdrive too......
I think I may need a lie down.
Nurse........
Dunno if its old age or what but I used to dislike the look of Chimeras, but now Im thinking chims are looking strangely attractive & less stricken by the unreliability woes of more modern stuff.
Then again perhaps its just insanity creeping up on me as I have for some odd reason been thinking about what a great little car (although I freely admit saddled with a girly/hairdresser image) an MX5 is as a runabout, even thought about getting a testdrive too......
I think I may need a lie down.
Nurse........
IMHO, it's a question of money. Porsches cost new more than comparable Tivs, but the total cost of ownership counts 
It would be interesting to compare the percentage of downtime of each car - including transfer to the service workshop; which would be a disadvantage for the Tiv, if both cars are used on the continent.
It would be interesting to compare the percentage of downtime of each car - including transfer to the service workshop; which would be a disadvantage for the Tiv, if both cars are used on the continent.
I thought Mr sideways was going to the states and he was looking at getting either a 993tt or an E55AMG.
JC, what happened? has Pete been brainwashed by the CIA?
DAZ
Edited to say no I would not consider a TVR, mainly because I don't fit in any of them with the roof on. Just ask anyone who saw me in Bob the Planners tuscan at Pistonfest on the sunday morning.
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 10th October 19:27
JC, what happened? has Pete been brainwashed by the CIA?
DAZ
Edited to say no I would not consider a TVR, mainly because I don't fit in any of them with the roof on. Just ask anyone who saw me in Bob the Planners tuscan at Pistonfest on the sunday morning.
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 10th October 19:27
It so happens that I have been considering just this issue.
See this thread on the Tuscan forum:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=57369&f=5&h=0
Some very open and intelligent debate.
In a nutshell, I was totally attracted to the styling and design of modern Trevors, but was uncertain. After test drives, some of the handling dynamics bothered me as well , and the lack of PSM-type equipment.
But I can understand your point. Some of the Tuscans and T350's I have seen have been gorgeous...
Went for a C4 in the end, but I think I'll revisit the issue.
See this thread on the Tuscan forum:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=57369&f=5&h=0
Some very open and intelligent debate.
In a nutshell, I was totally attracted to the styling and design of modern Trevors, but was uncertain. After test drives, some of the handling dynamics bothered me as well , and the lack of PSM-type equipment.
But I can understand your point. Some of the Tuscans and T350's I have seen have been gorgeous...
Went for a C4 in the end, but I think I'll revisit the issue.
Quite cheap too - less than an old 964C2! Though I do like the idea of an 911, even if they do have their engine in the wrong place... 
I've moved from having owned a Cerbera 4.2 and two Tuscans in the last 3 years - great cars, great thrills (in the dry!) but suffered the inevitable unreliability.
If you want something on the lines of a Chim but less "girly" then look at a Griff 500 - what a car and infinitely more reliable.
Mines a 996 C2 (2002) and though it does not have the outright grunt of the Tuscan (or indeed the wacky looks) I never shudder before I turn the key in a morning - something to be said for predictability.
If you want something on the lines of a Chim but less "girly" then look at a Griff 500 - what a car and infinitely more reliable.
Mines a 996 C2 (2002) and though it does not have the outright grunt of the Tuscan (or indeed the wacky looks) I never shudder before I turn the key in a morning - something to be said for predictability.
iguana said:
JC what is mr sideways up to then? I thought he was living in the USA now and was gunna get a 993C4S or Turbo to scare those darn colonials.
dazren said:
I thought Mr sideways was going to the states and he was looking at getting either a 993tt or an E55AMG.
JC, what happened? has Pete been brainwashed by the CIA?
Don't know, but his profile shows that he has just bought his own Blackpool Pleasure Bitch.
>> Edited by jeremyc on Friday 10th October 21:41
I sold my chim for my 996.
I do miss the 'special' ness of the Chim.
When people ask me to compare the two, I say its like a range of bar charts (yeah, fun i know!)
The TVR was 100% on a few of the charts (grin factor, noise, fun, 'specialness' and head turning, but let down on other sections, like 'ease of use', traction in wet, ability to drive from cold, snow driving etc.
whereas the 996 gets a steady 90% accross the whole range, doesnt feel as fast, doesnt slide well, grips stunningly tho, but doesnt feel as involving a drive.
BUT, its great at everything it does.
Given the choice between the two, I would take the 996 everyday, but in stock form, its a little 'lacking' in some areas (mainly performance and sound) I know I can upgrade the exhasut, but it needs more power.. so a Turbo is the only real option (GT3 nice, but sub'ing out some comfort and usability)
BUT, i would defo get another chim.. i had mine 18 mths, 20k miles, and it broke down once, with a dodgy bosch fuel relay, £8 fix and back going again.
it WAS noisey at speed, it WAS wet inside after rain, it WAS useless in the snow, and it CAN catch you out in the wet.. but any semi decent driver learns and knows this and adopts driving style accordingly, whereas in the 996, you know it, but dont NEED to do much about it, even the more 'on the edge' c2 sans PSM I have.
But, that is nice sometimes too
</rabble>
I do miss the 'special' ness of the Chim.
When people ask me to compare the two, I say its like a range of bar charts (yeah, fun i know!)
The TVR was 100% on a few of the charts (grin factor, noise, fun, 'specialness' and head turning, but let down on other sections, like 'ease of use', traction in wet, ability to drive from cold, snow driving etc.
whereas the 996 gets a steady 90% accross the whole range, doesnt feel as fast, doesnt slide well, grips stunningly tho, but doesnt feel as involving a drive.
BUT, its great at everything it does.
Given the choice between the two, I would take the 996 everyday, but in stock form, its a little 'lacking' in some areas (mainly performance and sound) I know I can upgrade the exhasut, but it needs more power.. so a Turbo is the only real option (GT3 nice, but sub'ing out some comfort and usability)
BUT, i would defo get another chim.. i had mine 18 mths, 20k miles, and it broke down once, with a dodgy bosch fuel relay, £8 fix and back going again.
it WAS noisey at speed, it WAS wet inside after rain, it WAS useless in the snow, and it CAN catch you out in the wet.. but any semi decent driver learns and knows this and adopts driving style accordingly, whereas in the 996, you know it, but dont NEED to do much about it, even the more 'on the edge' c2 sans PSM I have.
But, that is nice sometimes too
</rabble>
The answer is not a simple one. Would I consider a Rover V8 engined TVR as a weekend fun car? I have owned three already, and the answer is 100% yes, because the fun factor is enormous for relatively little cost, and the reliability nonsense that pub experts spout is out of all proportion to reality. There are a small proportion of bad cars and unfortunate owners that make all the bad publicity. It's true that they aren't over-engineered like a Honda, and things do sometimes need attention, but on the other hand neither has all the soul been designed and engineered out to be replaced by nasty plastics, airbags and dull understeer like most modern cars. Although I certainly wouldn't tar Porsche with that brush, neither would I concede that most models (and especially 996's) have as much character as a TVR. Whether or not they are a slower or quicker on a track I could not care less.
Would I consider a Rover V8 engined TVR as a daily driver? Probably not. Every journey is special with that soundtrack bellowing in your ears, but for 7 day a week use, you can have too much of a good thing, and you get fed up with every other driver trying it on at the lights (and failing). Anyway the ventilation systems are pretty lousy, and it's quite likely that there won't be any more new Rover engined cars manufactured soon.
Would I consider a TVR with an AJP engine of any designation, be it straight six, V8, V12, or anything else they might come up with? Absolutely not. Don't get me wrong, they are superb engines while they last, but are better suited to race cars that are supposed to get regular rebuilds, rather than road cars, which are generally supposed to last a significant number of years before needing major attention. And in any case, IMHO all the recent TVR interiors suck. They just look like unfinished student projects to me. So unless and until there is a big change in direction at TVR that would include buying in a modern, light, robust and powerful real V8 engine from the US, and starting from scratch with better interiors, I am not likely to be a potential customer for a new car.
Would I consider a Rover V8 engined TVR as a daily driver? Probably not. Every journey is special with that soundtrack bellowing in your ears, but for 7 day a week use, you can have too much of a good thing, and you get fed up with every other driver trying it on at the lights (and failing). Anyway the ventilation systems are pretty lousy, and it's quite likely that there won't be any more new Rover engined cars manufactured soon.
Would I consider a TVR with an AJP engine of any designation, be it straight six, V8, V12, or anything else they might come up with? Absolutely not. Don't get me wrong, they are superb engines while they last, but are better suited to race cars that are supposed to get regular rebuilds, rather than road cars, which are generally supposed to last a significant number of years before needing major attention. And in any case, IMHO all the recent TVR interiors suck. They just look like unfinished student projects to me. So unless and until there is a big change in direction at TVR that would include buying in a modern, light, robust and powerful real V8 engine from the US, and starting from scratch with better interiors, I am not likely to be a potential customer for a new car.
I presently have 3 porsches, a normally aspirated 1984 944, a 1983 928S 5-speed, and a 1990 944 S2 Cabriolet, and they are all superb road cars. I have a 1974 TVR too.
I started years and years ago with a 1960 Ford Fairlane 500, which I had to drive like a back wood bootlegger. It had 3 on the tree, and a huge six cylinder motor, and would top out at 105-mph. Then I discovered the joy of handling with a 1965 Alfa Gulia Spyder which I ran in the mountains of central Pennsylvania.
After that I went for more power, and got what I was missing with the Alfa, torque, ha ha. I loved the Triumph, but eventually wrecked it.
At that time I decided I needed a combination of Triumph torque, and Alfa handling, and went for a 2500 M, and it was a step in the right direction. That car would outhandle anything I'd ever driven, and by a wide margin.
Many years passed, lots of Volvos, the TVR was put up for 10 or 12 years and is just now being ressurected. I found a little 944 for sale and went for it. WOW, did I ever MISS sporting driving. Then I got hooked on a 928 which was being offered in the neighborhood, and finally got snagged on the cabriolet. All these cars drive like "the hounds from hell" when you want to go fast, and they are balanced like a precision instrument. They are all superb.
Having said that, if I lived in UK, I'd be very tempted to buy a TVR simply because they are built in UK and we Americans can't have the new ones. I understand they are very very good, and any little differences in upkeep should be viewed as simple "whining". Anyone driving any of these cars will make sacrifices to do so. If you want something that is "reliable" and boring as heck, then get a Toyota or something. Every time I have a repair on the Porsches, I just figure it's what I have to do to maintain the lifestyle of top quality sporting driving, and it's worth every penny.
regards from Nashville,
Dogsharks.
I started years and years ago with a 1960 Ford Fairlane 500, which I had to drive like a back wood bootlegger. It had 3 on the tree, and a huge six cylinder motor, and would top out at 105-mph. Then I discovered the joy of handling with a 1965 Alfa Gulia Spyder which I ran in the mountains of central Pennsylvania.
After that I went for more power, and got what I was missing with the Alfa, torque, ha ha. I loved the Triumph, but eventually wrecked it.
At that time I decided I needed a combination of Triumph torque, and Alfa handling, and went for a 2500 M, and it was a step in the right direction. That car would outhandle anything I'd ever driven, and by a wide margin.
Many years passed, lots of Volvos, the TVR was put up for 10 or 12 years and is just now being ressurected. I found a little 944 for sale and went for it. WOW, did I ever MISS sporting driving. Then I got hooked on a 928 which was being offered in the neighborhood, and finally got snagged on the cabriolet. All these cars drive like "the hounds from hell" when you want to go fast, and they are balanced like a precision instrument. They are all superb.
Having said that, if I lived in UK, I'd be very tempted to buy a TVR simply because they are built in UK and we Americans can't have the new ones. I understand they are very very good, and any little differences in upkeep should be viewed as simple "whining". Anyone driving any of these cars will make sacrifices to do so. If you want something that is "reliable" and boring as heck, then get a Toyota or something. Every time I have a repair on the Porsches, I just figure it's what I have to do to maintain the lifestyle of top quality sporting driving, and it's worth every penny.
regards from Nashville,
Dogsharks.
Would. Did. Still own it.
A Chimaera is a wonderful toy - and the wife uses it as a daily driver. So far it only let us down once - although the niggle list was RIDICULOUS.
My Porsches have never had a niggle list but I've been let down by 'em over and over again. I realise I've been unlucky but I'll never take the piss out of Tivs again on the reliability front.
The only real trouble I'd suggest that a Rover V8 based Tivver might have to put off the wary Porsche driver is chassis rust. If its bad then its very bad and is costly to deal with.
Alex. If you were considering getting rid of the 944 for a Chim I'd say - you only live once and a Chimaera is a hoot to drive - don't expect it to handle as well - but an absolute hoot. If you wanted a demo drive some time I'd be glad to show you what ownership is all about.
A Chimaera is a wonderful toy - and the wife uses it as a daily driver. So far it only let us down once - although the niggle list was RIDICULOUS.
My Porsches have never had a niggle list but I've been let down by 'em over and over again. I realise I've been unlucky but I'll never take the piss out of Tivs again on the reliability front.
The only real trouble I'd suggest that a Rover V8 based Tivver might have to put off the wary Porsche driver is chassis rust. If its bad then its very bad and is costly to deal with.
Alex. If you were considering getting rid of the 944 for a Chim I'd say - you only live once and a Chimaera is a hoot to drive - don't expect it to handle as well - but an absolute hoot. If you wanted a demo drive some time I'd be glad to show you what ownership is all about.
Morning all.
Thought i'd better show my face.
I had packed up everything from my house and had it sent to port for shipping, sold the 993C4S, and finally got the visa in my passport when the company i work for got bought (merger, ahem).
As a result the whole USA thing is off and i am here for the foreseeable. I have therefore booked my place for Le Mans next year.
As for the car... if i had gone to the US i would never have owned a TVR. You see, for me, a TVR means a Rover V8 but it also means something modern and useable. That left me in Chim/Grif territory.
Also, since the job front is now looking decidedly dodgy, i wasn't in the mood to throw all my 993 money back into another 993.
I've now bought a RIDICULOUSLY cheap Chim and have loads of spare cash in case i become a work shy layabout in the near future.
My thoughts? A Chim will never be as useable as a 993 as a daily driver, in fact not even as "civilised" as a G50.
BUT - every journey feels special. The V8 sounds glorious. With no PAS and no ABS and light weight and skinny tyres the TVR puts hairs on your chest and, even though it's the slowest car TVR have made in the last 10 years, it's quicker than my 993 was.
And TVR owners are much less snobby than Porsche owners, and the car attracts less negative attention (in fact, it gets some very positive attention!).
Anyways, look forward to seeing all the old faces again soon. By the way jeremyc, shouldn't you be welcoming me to the club?
VS
>>edited to say - i will be back in a 993 one day, it just might be a couple of years yet, that's all. Hopefully i'll keep the TVR too.
>> Edited by verysideways on Monday 13th October 09:23
Thought i'd better show my face.
I had packed up everything from my house and had it sent to port for shipping, sold the 993C4S, and finally got the visa in my passport when the company i work for got bought (merger, ahem).
As a result the whole USA thing is off and i am here for the foreseeable. I have therefore booked my place for Le Mans next year.
As for the car... if i had gone to the US i would never have owned a TVR. You see, for me, a TVR means a Rover V8 but it also means something modern and useable. That left me in Chim/Grif territory.
Also, since the job front is now looking decidedly dodgy, i wasn't in the mood to throw all my 993 money back into another 993.
I've now bought a RIDICULOUSLY cheap Chim and have loads of spare cash in case i become a work shy layabout in the near future.
My thoughts? A Chim will never be as useable as a 993 as a daily driver, in fact not even as "civilised" as a G50.
BUT - every journey feels special. The V8 sounds glorious. With no PAS and no ABS and light weight and skinny tyres the TVR puts hairs on your chest and, even though it's the slowest car TVR have made in the last 10 years, it's quicker than my 993 was.
And TVR owners are much less snobby than Porsche owners, and the car attracts less negative attention (in fact, it gets some very positive attention!).
Anyways, look forward to seeing all the old faces again soon. By the way jeremyc, shouldn't you be welcoming me to the club?
VS
>>edited to say - i will be back in a 993 one day, it just might be a couple of years yet, that's all. Hopefully i'll keep the TVR too.
>> Edited by verysideways on Monday 13th October 09:23
Try getting 2 people + 2 migets in a TVR (unless Cerbera). Love the 500 and 350 but will stay with the porker. Its made of metal and bits do not fall off as often.
Not sure how to take the comment regarding Porsche owner snobbery??? Most of the snobbery seems to exist between Porsche air cooled and watercooled owners - an internal battle! My view is good luck to anyone who choses (for the right reasons!) real classic exotic italtian, British handbuild muscle (TVR/AML/Lotus, etc) and other race bred machines. Scoobies, Evos, Type R's, Clio sports, all have a place in the world. Lets face it, its only a question of money and if that was not a problem how many of us would be driving around in the cars we currently own?
Money no object - for me it would have be the new Porsche GT (for dry weekends, Le Mans and the "odd run what you brun"), a Vanquish for the school run/shopping for cars, for Goodwood Nick Mansons GTO or nice orginal lightweight e-type,, a 2.7 911 RS and orginal Porsche 550 for classic trackdays plus something really OTT for trips to Germany (to diss the Hun!) a Zonda or McClaren, perhaps! not fogetting a nice new Range Rover or AMG E Class Estate for "ere in doors". Please note this is not a definative list, but don't get me started.
Is this snobbery??
Not sure how to take the comment regarding Porsche owner snobbery??? Most of the snobbery seems to exist between Porsche air cooled and watercooled owners - an internal battle! My view is good luck to anyone who choses (for the right reasons!) real classic exotic italtian, British handbuild muscle (TVR/AML/Lotus, etc) and other race bred machines. Scoobies, Evos, Type R's, Clio sports, all have a place in the world. Lets face it, its only a question of money and if that was not a problem how many of us would be driving around in the cars we currently own?
Money no object - for me it would have be the new Porsche GT (for dry weekends, Le Mans and the "odd run what you brun"), a Vanquish for the school run/shopping for cars, for Goodwood Nick Mansons GTO or nice orginal lightweight e-type,, a 2.7 911 RS and orginal Porsche 550 for classic trackdays plus something really OTT for trips to Germany (to diss the Hun!) a Zonda or McClaren, perhaps! not fogetting a nice new Range Rover or AMG E Class Estate for "ere in doors". Please note this is not a definative list, but don't get me started.
Is this snobbery??
Yep, having gone from Chim to 993, I have to agree with most of the above comments. The TVR is very special, sounds glorious and has that wonderful slug of torque in the mid-range that few other cars can deliver. However, the lack of practicality, and the general feeling that not much time has been spent on engineering and design other than on the bits you can see (and not always then) detract from the ownership experience, in my opinion. And if money starts to get tight, you start to resent having to fix bits that in most other cars simply don't go wrong these days, since you never know how far away you are from yet another wallet-lightening encounter with the garage.
The 993 has a smooth creamy delivery by comparison all the way up to a red line of 6000+ rpm and feels pretty bullet-proof - and you know that the thing has been designed to work in all conditions, including the track. Sure, the driving experience is a bit less special but it's still miles more special than most cars, and you don't see lots of them about so it still turns heads. What's more I'll get a lot more cash back when I sell it compared to the Chim.
Still miss that green beastie though...(see dannyboyo's profile for pic).
The 993 has a smooth creamy delivery by comparison all the way up to a red line of 6000+ rpm and feels pretty bullet-proof - and you know that the thing has been designed to work in all conditions, including the track. Sure, the driving experience is a bit less special but it's still miles more special than most cars, and you don't see lots of them about so it still turns heads. What's more I'll get a lot more cash back when I sell it compared to the Chim.
Still miss that green beastie though...(see dannyboyo's profile for pic).
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