Why no opium "problem"
Discussion
WeirdNeville said:
Drug production supplies demand. Some say it is the 'free-est' Market out there.
There's no remand for opium, so it's all processed into heroin.
I think it's a social thing. Opium (as in the raw substance) really requires paraphernalia - smoking equipment. When this was legal and quite trendy in certain social groups, market forces saw to it that the raw drug was available for those who wanted to partake socially - often in groups, sharing pipes, etc.There's no remand for opium, so it's all processed into heroin.
Prohibition necessarily splits drug-taking into two groups - the desperate, down-and-out addicted, and the middle / upper / professional class with a habit who tend to keep any drug-taking with an 'addict' reputation behind closed doors.
Morphine has lousy oral bioavailability, codeine has a ceiling and needs to be metabolised to work (the two principal opiate alkaloids in opium). Bayer in Germany found out that acetylating morphine to diacetyl morphine (they gave it a natty trademark name, Heroin - it's actually a *brand name*, heh) made it cross the blood-brain barrier faster and more effective; being a simple chemical reaction and feasible for farm workers extracting the stuff in Afghanistan etc. to do, it made more sense to process raw opium to diamorphine for shipment and sale.
Medical science also created nicely orally bioavailable opioids that the middle / upper / professional classes switched to - much easier to maintain a 'clean' habit that doesn't involve smoking or injecting stuff.
Of course, with refining, extraction and concentration comes greater potency... and I'd argue that more people end up having *problems* with opiates because the stuff on the market is all high-strength... whereas raw opium is more easily metered (stop when you've had enough), and with more of a ritual and social aspect to it, it's not all just about quickly getting high and chasing a rush.
Then again, whilst raw opium is pretty rare (I would say 'unheard of' but I don't move in druggie circles enough to know what's out there and what isn't), poppy tea *is* pretty popular. The poppy heads are available semi-legally and steep enough of them into a tea and you'll get the soluble alkaloids - effectively 'opium' but in a tea. You can get just as dependent on that, of course.
Given that you can smoke heroin, and you tend to only smoke opium (ignoring tinctures for the moment), and heroin is stronger, with prohibition and the lack of legal 'social ritual', the market moved to heroin. At least that's what I'd expect.
I bet there's a qualitative difference between opium and heroin, given the wider spectrum of alkaloids in raw opium, and gut feeling is that raw opium would be 'nicer' purely because of this... but in times of prohibition, connoisseurs are outnumbered by those for whom quantity is more important than quality, and heroin gives a more powerful effect for the same amount of substance...
I can't really comment because I've not tried either - perhaps someone who's travelled extensively in the East and come across 'proper' opium may be able to comment. Plenty here will know heroin but, yeah, I'm more interested in 'old' opium... the literature and old paraphernalia has a certain mystique to it
Heroin, with images of wasted-away junkies and dirty needles in skanky Scottish council flats, does not have any mystique. Opium still does...Grows quite freely over here. Monty Don used to rave about them on Gardener's World! 
Papaver Somniferum
Papaver Somniferum
Funkateer said:
Grows quite freely over here. Monty Don used to rave about them on Gardener's World!
Papaver Somniferum
As you can expect, I've tried growing these bPapaver Somniferum
ds and they are *not* easy to grow, even in the so-called Garden of England.Anyone got any tips?
cyberface said:
Funkateer said:
Grows quite freely over here. Monty Don used to rave about them on Gardener's World!
Papaver Somniferum
As you can expect, I've tried growing these bPapaver Somniferum
ds and they are *not* easy to grow, even in the so-called Garden of England.Anyone got any tips?
There's a double variety that you see a lot in the area with almost rose-like flowers!
Opium isn't a problem.
Junkies are a problem.
It's actualy very easy to make opium tea - you can purchase dried opium poppies of the right sort perfectly legally on that interweb thingy, grind em up and add hot water. Then use a coffee filter. Maybe add some lemon juice etc to taste. Does make it a class A drug, but what can one do. Oh, and I wouldn't do this if you have work tomorrow either, as there are loads of opiates in that wonderful flower, not just morphine, and one won't be quite right even after 24 hours.
Marvellous fun.
The reason that opium is not such a problem is because opiates are not a problem. I indulge in them all the time. In fact had a wee bit of dihydrocodeine today - although that is an opioid, not an opiate - just because I have so much lying around. Also alcohol. The latter is far more dangerous. And you really shouldn't mix them. But I do, and gosh darn it I'm still alive.
Only other point worth making, I suppose, is that a heroin injection has a "rush" attached to it. Junkies like them too, because they have no patience. Hence the shoplifting and such, I suppose, whilst pretty much any job this side of "pilot" could easily sustain an opioid habit. Which is another reason to have no sympathy for junkies, btw.#
Edit:
At the moment I can think of five things one should do to round ones brain out. I think that I will come to more in the future, but I haven't done them yet. These five have been my strongest experiences though:
1. Sex
2. Depression
3. Acid
4. Strong Opiate
5. Prove something to oneself
Junkies are a problem.
It's actualy very easy to make opium tea - you can purchase dried opium poppies of the right sort perfectly legally on that interweb thingy, grind em up and add hot water. Then use a coffee filter. Maybe add some lemon juice etc to taste. Does make it a class A drug, but what can one do. Oh, and I wouldn't do this if you have work tomorrow either, as there are loads of opiates in that wonderful flower, not just morphine, and one won't be quite right even after 24 hours.
Marvellous fun.
The reason that opium is not such a problem is because opiates are not a problem. I indulge in them all the time. In fact had a wee bit of dihydrocodeine today - although that is an opioid, not an opiate - just because I have so much lying around. Also alcohol. The latter is far more dangerous. And you really shouldn't mix them. But I do, and gosh darn it I'm still alive.
Only other point worth making, I suppose, is that a heroin injection has a "rush" attached to it. Junkies like them too, because they have no patience. Hence the shoplifting and such, I suppose, whilst pretty much any job this side of "pilot" could easily sustain an opioid habit. Which is another reason to have no sympathy for junkies, btw.#
Edit:
At the moment I can think of five things one should do to round ones brain out. I think that I will come to more in the future, but I haven't done them yet. These five have been my strongest experiences though:
1. Sex
2. Depression
3. Acid
4. Strong Opiate
5. Prove something to oneself
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Monday 15th March 20:32
Somewhatfoolish said:
In fact had a wee bit of dihydrocodeine today - although that is an opioid, not an opiate - just because I have so much lying around
Indeed, it's not opioids that are a problem, it's when you run out of opioids that it becomes a problem And lucky you having DHC coming out of your ears
Needs a bit of respect, though, that one IMO.cyberface said:
Somewhatfoolish said:
In fact had a wee bit of dihydrocodeine today - although that is an opioid, not an opiate - just because I have so much lying around
Indeed, it's not opioids that are a problem, it's when you run out of opioids that it becomes a problem And lucky you having DHC coming out of your ears
Needs a bit of respect, though, that one IMO.Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Monday 15th March 20:39
Somewhatfoolish said:
cyberface said:
Somewhatfoolish said:
In fact had a wee bit of dihydrocodeine today - although that is an opioid, not an opiate - just because I have so much lying around
Indeed, it's not opioids that are a problem, it's when you run out of opioids that it becomes a problem And lucky you having DHC coming out of your ears
Needs a bit of respect, though, that one IMO.Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Monday 15th March 20:39
If you're 'clinically inclined' then please do your research first. Especially if you've had depression, as self-prescribing to cope with one mental illness usually results in swapping drug dependence for depressive illness... though drug dependence is usually easier (and more fun) to maintain as long as you've got some self control. The trouble is that the people who self-prescribe to 'solve' their own mental illnesses aren't always those with the best self control in the first place.
If you're going to use benzos at all, stick to diazepam and try to have a couple of days off a week at least... otherwise it'll be the Ashton method for you. Do NOT under any circumstances try to cold turkey off alprazolam, especially if you've reached multi-milligram doses.
I won't have alprazolam in my medicine cabinet now. And yes, I have the experience to back up the bluster on this one
I can see the appeal of benzos to start with but once you've got a tolerance (40 mg diazepam has zero *perceived* effect on me now, though I sure as hell wouldn't get in a car with that much in my system) there's nothing left in it. Other than dependence, without addiction... so you stop because you can't be bothered, and then get hit with a near-fatal WD that you weren't expecting (alprazolam being the *very* worst for this).If you're going to self-prescribe for depression (and I'm not a doctor, though have strong views and experience on the subject) then stick to codeine. It has a useful ceiling effect (you can't get *stupidly* hooked as your body can only metabolise *so* much every day) and quitting codeine is a darn sight easier than proper strong opioids. And quitting *any* opioid quickly is safer than *any* benzo.
Oh yeah, while we're being frank about this sort of stuff - put the Z drugs in the same class as benzos. Big Pharma say they're not, but they are. Zolpidem and zopiclone - benzos in disguise. Just as easy to get dependent and dangerous WDs. Zaleplon - haven't had enough experience to know for sure but I'm not in the mood for testing benzo-like drug WDs at my age...
cyberface said:
Somewhatfoolish said:
cyberface said:
Somewhatfoolish said:
In fact had a wee bit of dihydrocodeine today - although that is an opioid, not an opiate - just because I have so much lying around
Indeed, it's not opioids that are a problem, it's when you run out of opioids that it becomes a problem And lucky you having DHC coming out of your ears
Needs a bit of respect, though, that one IMO.Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Monday 15th March 20:39
If you're 'clinically inclined' then please do your research first. Especially if you've had depression, as self-prescribing to cope with one mental illness usually results in swapping drug dependence for depressive illness... though drug dependence is usually easier (and more fun) to maintain as long as you've got some self control. The trouble is that the people who self-prescribe to 'solve' their own mental illnesses aren't always those with the best self control in the first place.
If you're going to use benzos at all, stick to diazepam and try to have a couple of days off a week at least... otherwise it'll be the Ashton method for you. Do NOT under any circumstances try to cold turkey off alprazolam, especially if you've reached multi-milligram doses.
I won't have alprazolam in my medicine cabinet now. And yes, I have the experience to back up the bluster on this one
I can see the appeal of benzos to start with but once you've got a tolerance (40 mg diazepam has zero *perceived* effect on me now, though I sure as hell wouldn't get in a car with that much in my system) there's nothing left in it. Other than dependence, without addiction... so you stop because you can't be bothered, and then get hit with a near-fatal WD that you weren't expecting (alprazolam being the *very* worst for this).If you're going to self-prescribe for depression (and I'm not a doctor, though have strong views and experience on the subject) then stick to codeine. It has a useful ceiling effect (you can't get *stupidly* hooked as your body can only metabolise *so* much every day) and quitting codeine is a darn sight easier than proper strong opioids. And quitting *any* opioid quickly is safer than *any* benzo.
Oh yeah, while we're being frank about this sort of stuff - put the Z drugs in the same class as benzos. Big Pharma say they're not, but they are. Zolpidem and zopiclone - benzos in disguise. Just as easy to get dependent and dangerous WDs. Zaleplon - haven't had enough experience to know for sure but I'm not in the mood for testing benzo-like drug WDs at my age...
Been 36 hours now without anything of that nature at all, and...oooh...72ish without therapeutic usage... may be worth a wee top up then you say? This wasn't a long lasting thing so I think safety seems reasonably... safe...
As for your medicine cabinet... heh, a week ago I was swapping em for "plant food" with some bar bird, although that's still lying around too... actually better clean up a bit before cleaner arrives tomorrow
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Monday 15th March 21:23
^^ Be sensible fella. Respect your drugs, or you could find yourself getting bitten very hard in the arse. They're fine, just treat with respect. It's the people who think they're different to everyone else before them, who all have the same story to tell, who end up telling the same story to the new wave of people who think they're different to everyone else.... if you catch my drift.
Or, if you really *must*, send the DHC to me. Ta.
(of course, you could be twice my age and a full-on 60s rock-n-roll legend, but it doesn't sound like it from that *last* post)
Or, if you really *must*, send the DHC to me. Ta.
(of course, you could be twice my age and a full-on 60s rock-n-roll legend, but it doesn't sound like it from that *last* post)
cyberface said:
^^ Be sensible fella. Respect your drugs, or you could find yourself getting bitten very hard in the arse. They're fine, just treat with respect. It's the people who think they're different to everyone else before them, who all have the same story to tell, who end up telling the same story to the new wave of people who think they're different to everyone else.... if you catch my drift.
Or, if you really *must*, send the DHC to me. Ta.
(of course, you could be twice my age and a full-on 60s rock-n-roll legend, but it doesn't sound like it from that *last* post)
Quite. My only reservation is that you seem to be a cat person.Or, if you really *must*, send the DHC to me. Ta.
(of course, you could be twice my age and a full-on 60s rock-n-roll legend, but it doesn't sound like it from that *last* post)
Somewhatfoolish said:
cyberface said:
^^ Be sensible fella. Respect your drugs, or you could find yourself getting bitten very hard in the arse. They're fine, just treat with respect. It's the people who think they're different to everyone else before them, who all have the same story to tell, who end up telling the same story to the new wave of people who think they're different to everyone else.... if you catch my drift.
Or, if you really *must*, send the DHC to me. Ta.
(of course, you could be twice my age and a full-on 60s rock-n-roll legend, but it doesn't sound like it from that *last* post)
Quite. My only reservation is that you seem to be a cat person.Or, if you really *must*, send the DHC to me. Ta.
(of course, you could be twice my age and a full-on 60s rock-n-roll legend, but it doesn't sound like it from that *last* post)
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