Discussion
ewenm said:
CHIEF said:
No but i did price up all the equipment up once. That alone put me off.
I'd have thought leasing would be a good idea for gyms - make sure you always have the latest kit without the capital investment.I think it depends on what tyoe of gym he wants to open.
I.e. a Hardcore bodybuilding gym, an all round but basic gym that appeals to everyone on a budget, or the high end gym with the latest Technogym, Life Fitness or Cybex equipment.
Due to almost living at the gym I've heard a lot more about gym finances than I probably should have over the last few years. Most of the gyms I've used with technogym have been leased. My current gym had a lease with a buy or upgrade option at the end. As the equipment is out of date crap, I'm going to assume they used the buy option 
What I do know is churn is terrible and it can be extremely difficult to make money if there's already a few established gyms.
A GL14 just opened near me, it's beautiful. I hate the think the cash they're haemorrhaging at the moment.
What I do know is churn is terrible and it can be extremely difficult to make money if there's already a few established gyms.
A GL14 just opened near me, it's beautiful. I hate the think the cash they're haemorrhaging at the moment.
matt12023 said:
Oh i'd assumed equipment leasing all the way
Though being a design engineer and spending most of my non work hours in the gym and knowing how ludicrously cheap I can get fabrications made in china it has crossed my mind before that I should go into gymequipment manufacture
There are a couple of companies that i came across that already make gym equipment in China. Now whether the quality is up to scratch i dont know.Though being a design engineer and spending most of my non work hours in the gym and knowing how ludicrously cheap I can get fabrications made in china it has crossed my mind before that I should go into gymequipment manufacture
I've yet to go into a gym with Chinese gym equipment.
I think it really dpends who you get to do it and how tight a leash you keep on them. We've had some crap through but once you focus on quality you can get as good as over here. We've had machines built i china that have been tested to about 180 tonnes, so I'd say gym equipment is within their scope
matt12023 said:
Does anyone on here own or manage a gym. I going to throw some numbers together to assess the viability
I was mulling over the same idea the other day, every gym in town appears to be packed to the rafters almost every night of the week. The main problems I could see were membership churn and how to get enough bums on seats (or feet on treadmills) to reach critical mass and start paying the bills.
If that takes too long I can imagine leaking cash at an alarming rate for anything other than the most basic of setups located in some crappy trading estate.
The one "bright" (or maybe it was stupid) idea that I Had was to approach the local managed office environment places BEG / Regus / etc to see if they would allow a unit in their offices to be converted to a gym, you could give tennants at the building reduced membership for them and families, and possibly friends to attempt a stab at getting the costs covered and market into the surrounding office park / trading estate /etc to get the numbers up.
I doubt this model would work for anything other than a fairly tiny little place though, 20-30 people capacity.
Of course I'm never actually going to do it though, just idle thinking on the rowing machine...
There are so many things to consider when opening a gym.
The first and most important is what type of gym do you want it to be?
Spit and Sawdust type places can be cheap-ish to open and run, but you'll never be able to charge £££ and you'll never make a great profit. *allegedly* most of these places only become profitable once the owner cashes in on the steroid market.
swanky gyms cost serious money to start and you need some major backing just to open, never mind fill the place with members. This is where most gym owners fall down. They have no idea how to enrol new members. The sales process has to be spot on, converting the "maybe-s" into members.
I provide consultancy services to independent gym owners and martial arts school proprietors and 90% of my work is centred around the sales process. Get this wrong and your gym will churn through more money than you can imagine before you go bankrupt
The first and most important is what type of gym do you want it to be?
Spit and Sawdust type places can be cheap-ish to open and run, but you'll never be able to charge £££ and you'll never make a great profit. *allegedly* most of these places only become profitable once the owner cashes in on the steroid market.
swanky gyms cost serious money to start and you need some major backing just to open, never mind fill the place with members. This is where most gym owners fall down. They have no idea how to enrol new members. The sales process has to be spot on, converting the "maybe-s" into members.
I provide consultancy services to independent gym owners and martial arts school proprietors and 90% of my work is centred around the sales process. Get this wrong and your gym will churn through more money than you can imagine before you go bankrupt
It would be more towards the health club type of gym. As said above, spit and sawdust gyms dont really make the money. It would be nice to cater for all crowds but i'd say the meathead head and health club crowds are fairly mutually exclusive so two venues would be needed hence aim for the most profitable first.
I suppose keeping memebers up is a combination of good advertising/sales work and fundamentally having the facilities that they want otherwise your on to a hiding to nowhere.
I suppose keeping memebers up is a combination of good advertising/sales work and fundamentally having the facilities that they want otherwise your on to a hiding to nowhere.
If you need any help give me a shout, I specialise in Refurbishment of Gyms and work for most of the Gym groups and know most of the key suppliers, all the equipment is leased and alot of the main players have their kit made in China, PM if you want more info
Edited by taffyracer on Friday 2nd April 13:19
matt12023 said:
It would be more towards the health club type of gym. As said above, spit and sawdust gyms dont really make the money. It would be nice to cater for all crowds but i'd say the meathead head and health club crowds are fairly mutually exclusive so two venues would be needed hence aim for the most profitable first.
I suppose keeping memebers up is a combination of good advertising/sales work and fundamentally having the facilities that they want otherwise your on to a hiding to nowhere.
Health Club, to me, means swimming pool etc; the difference between FF and DL (gym and HCLub).I suppose keeping memebers up is a combination of good advertising/sales work and fundamentally having the facilities that they want otherwise your on to a hiding to nowhere.
Do you have access to finance with six 0s at the end?
Serious question.....if not, you will need it.
Everything else can be sorted with the right help/advice.
What experience do you have of leisure management? I wouldn't want to be at the bottom of a learning curve whilst going down this route.
interesting idea Matt, tell me I'm not mad, did we not touch on this subject when we chatted? I'm getting to that age now where I have to check 
ours will be Health Club based, love S&S gyms, as like you, I spent my formative years in them, but it's not where the market is where I'm setting up.
there is a calculator here in france that works out head count for membership based on m2, also machines needed etc etc.
600m2 level 3 barn conversion (indoor pool, outside Jacuzzi, 30/70 free weight / machine split, changing rooms, cafe) equates to about 150 members and about 200k set up, but this is based on all work being done for you with all new equipment, would be on 2 floors so about 1200m2.
we reckon on cutting that in half by doing allot of the work ourselves and buying equipment 2nd hand.
to run the place you'd need at least a couple of part timers on top of your own dedication, cleaners etc, more if pool included.
obviously you'd have rent to allow for if not buying outright, for us the barn is included within the property we are buying so it works financially, but to be fair we are not doing it as a money making exercise more of a huge gym with facilities for us and we invite paying people to join in obviously it will be limited & exclusive membership
ours will be Health Club based, love S&S gyms, as like you, I spent my formative years in them, but it's not where the market is where I'm setting up.
there is a calculator here in france that works out head count for membership based on m2, also machines needed etc etc.
600m2 level 3 barn conversion (indoor pool, outside Jacuzzi, 30/70 free weight / machine split, changing rooms, cafe) equates to about 150 members and about 200k set up, but this is based on all work being done for you with all new equipment, would be on 2 floors so about 1200m2.
we reckon on cutting that in half by doing allot of the work ourselves and buying equipment 2nd hand.
to run the place you'd need at least a couple of part timers on top of your own dedication, cleaners etc, more if pool included.
obviously you'd have rent to allow for if not buying outright, for us the barn is included within the property we are buying so it works financially, but to be fair we are not doing it as a money making exercise more of a huge gym with facilities for us and we invite paying people to join in
obviously it will be limited & exclusive membership But don't worry about the sales process, once you start getting customers in you can start treating them like dirt - "membership" being a passport to being treated like a pleb in most fitness clubs. Then you can start milking them for money, £1 for a bottle of water, crap water fountains, £1.30 for a bottle of lucozade sport that probably costs 20p to buy, £15 a month for a dedicated locker. Skimp on the air conditioning, blaming the engineers who origianlly installed it, conveniently ignoring basic common sense that it's not air conditioning that is the problem but proper ventilationa nd airflow. Then there's the equipment - start with lots of gucci stuff and screens on each machine, then gradually let it all wear down and ignore the members when they report defects, especially dangerous ones like worn out footstraps on rowing machines. Ensure the changing rooms are nice and cramped and the showers are manky, but don't let potential members take too close a look and never show them round at peak times. Of course the potential members will spot the "no more than 30 minutes [20 in some] during peak times" notices on the cardio machines but they'll be overawed by the sheer number of machines. Then you can get maximum number of members tied in on a six month orbetter still 12 month contract, they'll turn up a few times then get fed up of state of the place and never show their faces again. And if you fear sales are slipping ytou can introduce a totally meaningless and worthless discount programme for top brands.
I'd actually pay double what I pay now for my membership if it would guarantee decent service, well-maintained equipment, lower membership numbers and proper ventilation but I must be an oddity as most people seem to lump it in the current batch of gyms. Good luck and hope this free bit of gym management consultancy has been a help. I won't tell you which chain I am a member of but they all seem the same.
I'd actually pay double what I pay now for my membership if it would guarantee decent service, well-maintained equipment, lower membership numbers and proper ventilation but I must be an oddity as most people seem to lump it in the current batch of gyms. Good luck and hope this free bit of gym management consultancy has been a help. I won't tell you which chain I am a member of but they all seem the same.
sadoksevoli said:
But don't worry about the sales process, once you start getting customers in you can start treating them like dirt - "membership" being a passport to being treated like a pleb in most fitness clubs. Then you can start milking them for money, £1 for a bottle of water, crap water fountains, £1.30 for a bottle of lucozade sport that probably costs 20p to buy, £15 a month for a dedicated locker. Skimp on the air conditioning, blaming the engineers who origianlly installed it, conveniently ignoring basic common sense that it's not air conditioning that is the problem but proper ventilationa nd airflow. Then there's the equipment - start with lots of gucci stuff and screens on each machine, then gradually let it all wear down and ignore the members when they report defects, especially dangerous ones like worn out footstraps on rowing machines. Ensure the changing rooms are nice and cramped and the showers are manky, but don't let potential members take too close a look and never show them round at peak times. Of course the potential members will spot the "no more than 30 minutes [20 in some] during peak times" notices on the cardio machines but they'll be overawed by the sheer number of machines. Then you can get maximum number of members tied in on a six month orbetter still 12 month contract, they'll turn up a few times then get fed up of state of the place and never show their faces again. And if you fear sales are slipping ytou can introduce a totally meaningless and worthless discount programme for top brands.
Sounds like FF to me...or V!
I never joined, but a mate took me along to David Lloyd and was very impressed there, even at busy times there was just about the right amount of equipment and if you stayed late you could see the cleaners were doing their job properly etc...but membership is pretty steep.
I never joined, but a mate took me along to David Lloyd and was very impressed there, even at busy times there was just about the right amount of equipment and if you stayed late you could see the cleaners were doing their job properly etc...but membership is pretty steep.
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