Discussion
Feel I have to post a topic regarding the contact between cars in saloon car races that was praised in the Rob huff thread.
This seems to be getting out of hand, Touring car drivers are quite bad, but it was taken to new levels by most of the Formula Seat guys who appear to be a bunch of f
g morons.
This is giving the impression to people in the lower classes (club racing) and especially the newcomers that contact is expected.
It NOT
There is getting more and more contact in the races I am entering / keeping an eye on. and last week I heard a 2nd hand comment from a very succesful driver that only 2 cars in one of his last races finished without damage.
This is not on......
Racing needs to be close and exciting but we dont need damage. If I fall off due to my own error thats fair enough, but I dont want to sustain £5k of damage because somewit decides that he can get past me by gently nudging me off.
This need to be stopped. I do not want to risk my car and will not tolerate the stupidity that seems to be arriving in the sport
(ps I am a newcomer to racing too)
This seems to be getting out of hand, Touring car drivers are quite bad, but it was taken to new levels by most of the Formula Seat guys who appear to be a bunch of f
g morons. This is giving the impression to people in the lower classes (club racing) and especially the newcomers that contact is expected.
It NOT There is getting more and more contact in the races I am entering / keeping an eye on. and last week I heard a 2nd hand comment from a very succesful driver that only 2 cars in one of his last races finished without damage.
This is not on......
Racing needs to be close and exciting but we dont need damage. If I fall off due to my own error thats fair enough, but I dont want to sustain £5k of damage because some
wit decides that he can get past me by gently nudging me off. This need to be stopped. I do not want to risk my car and will not tolerate the stupidity that seems to be arriving in the sport
(ps I am a newcomer to racing too)
Id have to agree there, I thought some of the driving standards on the seat thingy last year were Terrible...
I had some outstanding racing this weekend at Cadwell there were Plenty of occasiopns where a little tap could have made a differenct to the results, but no the racing was harsh but fair and no body contact at all...
Some contact is always going to happen but blatent stuff should be stamped out.
G
I had some outstanding racing this weekend at Cadwell there were Plenty of occasiopns where a little tap could have made a differenct to the results, but no the racing was harsh but fair and no body contact at all...
Some contact is always going to happen but blatent stuff should be stamped out.
G
It isn't as if it is difficult to do - that's why we have a penalty points system on our licenses after all.
Our racing (Ginettas) does appear to be very fair - OK, there are a few crashes, but not too much shoving about. However, our steward still interviews a handful of drivers after every session and investigates every incident - possibly why things stay clean!
Rich
Our racing (Ginettas) does appear to be very fair - OK, there are a few crashes, but not too much shoving about. However, our steward still interviews a handful of drivers after every session and investigates every incident - possibly why things stay clean!
Rich
As if by magic
More of the same please officials. Yes exciting racing - no £k's bill at the end of the meeting!
Rich
BBC Sport said:
Anthony Reid, who came second in race two behind Tom Chilton, has dropped to fourth after being fined 10 seconds for a clash with James Thompson.
More of the same please officials. Yes exciting racing - no £k's bill at the end of the meeting!
Rich
in my opinion its all down to respect. drivers at club level are in many ways better drivers than those in championships like the BTCC and the Seat Cupra championship because they simply can not afford to damage their cars and thus manage to overtake opponents in the proper way. Be it a different line, later braking, pressuring the driver into a mistake or simply more speed, the drivers cannot afford to damage the cars because there is not a pit crew with a load of spares in the garage waiting for them after each session.
Part of the problem in the BTCC lies in the fact that the drivers know the teams will do their best to rectify the damage caused in the first race and try to ensure then car is out again. Therefore it doesnt matter if they crash into the side of their opponent by going for a gap which wasnt there because it will be fixed and they can race again. Its a nothing ventured nothing gained mentality. I accept that the racing is close, but almost every collision i have seen in the BTCC this year was avoidable. It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of people such as Andy Rouse and Robb Gravett on this years BTCC!!
Part of the problem in the BTCC lies in the fact that the drivers know the teams will do their best to rectify the damage caused in the first race and try to ensure then car is out again. Therefore it doesnt matter if they crash into the side of their opponent by going for a gap which wasnt there because it will be fixed and they can race again. Its a nothing ventured nothing gained mentality. I accept that the racing is close, but almost every collision i have seen in the BTCC this year was avoidable. It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of people such as Andy Rouse and Robb Gravett on this years BTCC!!
Rubbing isn't punting an opponent up the back or rear quarter enough to put them into a slide thus nipping up the inside (Anthony Reid). Or thumping everyone to get past so much you lose your own front wings and cause the person you hit to have tyre problems from rubbing bodywork (Tom Chilton). Tom is sponsored by Playstation, guess where he got his racing style from 
Or when being properly past then getting "revenge" at the next corner by hitting the person who past you and causing damage (Rob Huff)
>> Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 11th May 14:52
Or when being properly past then getting "revenge" at the next corner by hitting the person who past you and causing damage (Rob Huff) >> Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 11th May 14:52
Andy mac said:
I for one loved it! Its not contact its 'rubbing'!! I agree in lower series where budgets are tighter, but if the btcc let it go for some rubbing, then let them rub!
the Trouble with that is it then sets the standard which filters down to club level....
You need consistant rules... banging people off isnt acceptable period... Thats how people get hurt
Graham said:
I for one loved it! Its not contact its 'rubbing'!! I agree in lower series where budgets are tighter, but if the btcc let it go for some rubbing, then let them rub!
the Trouble with that is it then sets the standard which filters down to club level....
I disagree. With reference to my earlier post, I believe that club drivers are more talented and respect one another far more. Club level race organisers have too much to lose if they do not clamp down immediately on dangerous driving/diliberate pushing. Mind you having said all this, if you think the BTCC is bad, try watching some of the Super One kart championships!
Andy mac said:
I for one loved it! Its not contact its 'rubbing'!! I agree in lower series where budgets are tighter, but if the btcc let it go for some rubbing, then let them rub!
Andy I can see what you are saying, and while the touring cars is undoubtedly very exciting racing, It really isnt helping the club racer. You cant really have one set of rules for one and one for another.
I will also say that a 10 second penalty may well knock them down the results sheet a bit, but it isnt going to help with the repair bill of the person who was on the recieving end of the infringement.
I dont know what to suggest really, but the Seat challenge boys should almost, without exception have their licensces ripped up....that had possibly the worst standard of driving of any championship I have ever seen.
I suppose more serious punishment for blatant offences would be a good idea.
edited to add, some of it is certainly more than rubbing!!
>> Edited by psimpson7 on Tuesday 11th May 15:11
I think the BTCC has deteriorated slowly over time. There were some questionable moves during the sierra/m3 days but mostly it was good racing. Since the Supertourers (more closely matched cars) more dodgy moves seem to be common place. I know when I raced contact was very rare, they were all our own cars, all maintained largely from our own pockets by ourselves. Of course we had a couple of moron's, one of which decided to use me as a brake while trying to pass me under a waved yellow (during practice......) I am pleased to say, the clerk of the course had no second thoughts about telling him to go home and stay there....
Maybe a course of action that should still be used today.......
Maybe a course of action that should still be used today.......
I agree with rlk500, and the original point. BTCC standards are pretty appalling, ironically it's the 'stars' who are often the biggest culprits (I'm looking at you Messrs. Muller and Harvey), and the Seat Challenge last year was disgraceful.
If you want contact, go to Spedeworth or Hednesford. Rubbing, acceptable; over-optimism, also acceptable (at least the first couple of times); deliberate punts are pathetic. And if a muppet like me can see them, the CoC surely can. As rlk says, send 'em home, and see how their employers and sponsors react.
Alternatively, let's just wait until a car spears off at 130mph, and takes out the marshal post and driver, all nice and live on ITV & Motors. Writs will fly, a nice manslaughter charge to keep it in the news, liability insurance goes through the roof, entry fees for the rest of us step up, and most club racing becomes unviable. Yeah, that'll be exciting. (and don't call me a cynic - all the ingredients are there, all it takes is one idiot and a set of circumstances to come together).
If you want contact, go to Spedeworth or Hednesford. Rubbing, acceptable; over-optimism, also acceptable (at least the first couple of times); deliberate punts are pathetic. And if a muppet like me can see them, the CoC surely can. As rlk says, send 'em home, and see how their employers and sponsors react.
Alternatively, let's just wait until a car spears off at 130mph, and takes out the marshal post and driver, all nice and live on ITV & Motors. Writs will fly, a nice manslaughter charge to keep it in the news, liability insurance goes through the roof, entry fees for the rest of us step up, and most club racing becomes unviable. Yeah, that'll be exciting. (and don't call me a cynic - all the ingredients are there, all it takes is one idiot and a set of circumstances to come together).
I agree with most of the above. I think anyone that the clerk of the course considers to have made any contact that could have been avoided should be dealt with severely preferably banned for a period. It's impossible to eradicate contact as it usually (in club racing at least) due to an innocent lack of judgement, however I have seen racing where contact is avoidable but the drivers have made no effort to avoid it. In these cases action needs to be taken. Damage to cars is bad enough, but risk of injury or worse is my fear.
Was just about to say that I have witnessed the same thing Pete - and then I noticed it was you who started the thread so it would have been rather daft....
Got to agree though - it is starting to permeate all of the classes. How many new drivers got the bug from their copy of Gran Turismo remains to be seen but it isn't just the youngun's.
The last fiat challenge race I saw had 50% of the field noticibly damaged and three cars completely written off. One guy was complaining that the only panel that didn't have a dent was the roof!
Most clubs do try to maintain something resembling a reasonable quality of driving in their drivers but it seems that all too often a knock is missed or not deemed more than a racing incident. Our race organiser has promised that any drivers showing a tendency to push/rub/bend other cars will be shown the exit, not just for the series but for the racing club too. Whether or not this comes to pass is another matter. Our next race is on Saturday and we will soon find out which way this affair is going...
Got to agree though - it is starting to permeate all of the classes. How many new drivers got the bug from their copy of Gran Turismo remains to be seen but it isn't just the youngun's.
The last fiat challenge race I saw had 50% of the field noticibly damaged and three cars completely written off. One guy was complaining that the only panel that didn't have a dent was the roof!
Most clubs do try to maintain something resembling a reasonable quality of driving in their drivers but it seems that all too often a knock is missed or not deemed more than a racing incident. Our race organiser has promised that any drivers showing a tendency to push/rub/bend other cars will be shown the exit, not just for the series but for the racing club too. Whether or not this comes to pass is another matter. Our next race is on Saturday and we will soon find out which way this affair is going...
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