Raise the Speed Limits - say Police Chiefs!!!!
Discussion
It's time some speed limits were raised says Police Chief!
"Daily Mail!" 20.05/04 - by Ben Taylor and Ray Massey
Officer admits: We've lost the PR war on speed cameras!
"Variable speed limits should be introduced as part of a charm offensive to win back the support of motorists a senior policeman suggested yesterday.
"Public faith in the police has been badly damaged by the spread of speed cameras.
"But - said Association of Chife Police Officers spokesman Ceredydd Hughes, a sensible, but rigorously enforced approach to speed limits - even raising some could rebuild this trust!"
"He was backed by former Chief Constable Peter Joslin, who said the current speed limit of 70mph was out of date and should be increased to 80mph "in certain conditions"
"Both men were addressing the Police Federation's annual conference in Bournemouth - where delegates have complained they were experiencing backlash from drivers angered by the level and volume of penalties and fines.
"Mr Hughes, Deputy Chief Constable of Sout Yorkshire Police made his admission that the public relations battle had been lost on the day that the DfT figures suggested that the controversial devices were failing to persuade drivers to slow down!
"'I think we have lost the PR battle at a time when we shouldn't have' - he said. 'I think there are good reasons for us to have speed cameras'
"Mr Hughes is the Association's authority on road technology, but was speaking in a personal capacity He said that one way to convince drivers that the police were listening to them would be to raise - and lower - limits in areas and at times of day where they appeared appropriate.
"He admitted that sometimes it did not make sense for the same limit to apply at 2am on a Sunday on a deserted motorway as it did during a week-day rush hour. He's lurkin' on here, meine lieben Kerle!
"'There are roads that do not seem suitable for the speed limits' - he added - 'It is then that I have sympathy with members of the public!
"'I would like to arrive at a point where we can use the available technology and potential technology in the future to look at the potential for increasing speed limits - but they will be rigorously enforced!'
"Mr Joslin, former head of Warwickshire Police is credited with introducing the UK's first speed camera. he warned delegates that they were in danger of alienating the law-abiding public and he also backed variable limits.
"'If speed limits do not make sense, they will not obey them!'
"The number of drivers caught out by speed cams jumped 40% t0 1.4 million in 2002 - the latesrt year for which figures are available. It is predicted that numbers will reach 3 million this year.
"The DfT figures revealed that 57% of cars using m/ways exceeded the speed limit - 2% up on 2002. And the proportion speeding above 80mph jumped from 18% to 20%.
"On 30mph roads - 58% exceed the speed limit - fall of 1% on 2002 and 25% travel at 35mph!
"The report found "High incidence" of speeding by lorry drivers in residential areas and 74% do not adhere to the 40mph limit on single carriageway NSL roads.
"Edmund King (RAC) said: 'Simply handing out millions of speeding tickets obviously is not working and show dire need for speed awareness courses as alternative to fines!"
provided they tackle real speeders and are not seen as another revenue raiser - which is ssadly the case through over-zealous targetting of 31-35mph-ers - as appears to be the case
>>> Edited by WildCat on Friday 21st May 16:37
"Daily Mail!" 20.05/04 - by Ben Taylor and Ray Massey
Officer admits: We've lost the PR war on speed cameras!
"Variable speed limits should be introduced as part of a charm offensive to win back the support of motorists a senior policeman suggested yesterday.
"Public faith in the police has been badly damaged by the spread of speed cameras.
"But - said Association of Chife Police Officers spokesman Ceredydd Hughes, a sensible, but rigorously enforced approach to speed limits - even raising some could rebuild this trust!"
"He was backed by former Chief Constable Peter Joslin, who said the current speed limit of 70mph was out of date and should be increased to 80mph "in certain conditions"
"Both men were addressing the Police Federation's annual conference in Bournemouth - where delegates have complained they were experiencing backlash from drivers angered by the level and volume of penalties and fines.
"Mr Hughes, Deputy Chief Constable of Sout Yorkshire Police made his admission that the public relations battle had been lost on the day that the DfT figures suggested that the controversial devices were failing to persuade drivers to slow down!
"'I think we have lost the PR battle at a time when we shouldn't have' - he said. 'I think there are good reasons for us to have speed cameras'
"Mr Hughes is the Association's authority on road technology, but was speaking in a personal capacity He said that one way to convince drivers that the police were listening to them would be to raise - and lower - limits in areas and at times of day where they appeared appropriate.
"He admitted that sometimes it did not make sense for the same limit to apply at 2am on a Sunday on a deserted motorway as it did during a week-day rush hour.
He's lurkin' on here, meine lieben Kerle! "'There are roads that do not seem suitable for the speed limits' - he added - 'It is then that I have sympathy with members of the public!
"'I would like to arrive at a point where we can use the available technology and potential technology in the future to look at the potential for increasing speed limits - but they will be rigorously enforced!'
"Mr Joslin, former head of Warwickshire Police is credited with introducing the UK's first speed camera. he warned delegates that they were in danger of alienating the law-abiding public and he also backed variable limits.
"'If speed limits do not make sense, they will not obey them!'
"The number of drivers caught out by speed cams jumped 40% t0 1.4 million in 2002 - the latesrt year for which figures are available. It is predicted that numbers will reach 3 million this year.
"The DfT figures revealed that 57% of cars using m/ways exceeded the speed limit - 2% up on 2002. And the proportion speeding above 80mph jumped from 18% to 20%.
"On 30mph roads - 58% exceed the speed limit - fall of 1% on 2002 and 25% travel at 35mph!
"The report found "High incidence" of speeding by lorry drivers in residential areas and 74% do not adhere to the 40mph limit on single carriageway NSL roads.
"Edmund King (RAC) said: 'Simply handing out millions of speeding tickets obviously is not working and show dire need for speed awareness courses as alternative to fines!"
provided they tackle real speeders and are not seen as another revenue raiser - which is ssadly the case through over-zealous targetting of 31-35mph-ers - as appears to be the case
>>> Edited by WildCat on Friday 21st May 16:37
police said:
'There are roads that do not seem suitable for the speed limits'
Interesting way round. Surely he meant there are some limits that aren't suitable for the roads?
BTW, I've spent the week in the Basingstoke/Newbury area. I pity those of you who have to put up with arbitrary speed limit changes every few yards and more road-narrowing white paint than would cover the QE2. Road safety? I was confused...
I've said it before an it bears repeating. Given they have the Big "Matrix" Signs this should be the new speed limit laws.
Motorways 100 max on Clear Motorway good conditions.
80 Max On clear But light rain.
60 Max All other conditions excepting Snow and bad visibility where 50 is the Max.
NSL to remain the same.
50 on Single carriageway having no dwellings but having several intersections.
40 for Dwellings on one side only and dual carriageways in Urban areas
30 for Built up areas.
20 for roads within Estates or older terraced house areas.
Variable limit outside schools. As above outside 8am til 4PM. 20 between 8am and 9am, 12am and 1Pm and 3 and 5am 30 between those times.
No camera enforcement unless a limit sign posted before the camera mobile or fixed.
Any body see any flaws??
Motorways 100 max on Clear Motorway good conditions.
80 Max On clear But light rain.
60 Max All other conditions excepting Snow and bad visibility where 50 is the Max.
NSL to remain the same.
50 on Single carriageway having no dwellings but having several intersections.
40 for Dwellings on one side only and dual carriageways in Urban areas
30 for Built up areas.
20 for roads within Estates or older terraced house areas.
Variable limit outside schools. As above outside 8am til 4PM. 20 between 8am and 9am, 12am and 1Pm and 3 and 5am 30 between those times.
No camera enforcement unless a limit sign posted before the camera mobile or fixed.
Any body see any flaws??
I have been arguing for years with some of the local road safety officers that the more you reduce speed limits the more fatal and serious injury acidents you will have to deal with.
The reason is that if you reduce a 60 limit to a 50 limit, what happens is those that used to drive at 60 will most likely frive around the 48mph mark. Those that were doing 70 in the 60 now get caught behind these people but thier reduction is now 20mph or more.
If relative speeds are lower it actually takes a little longer to complete an overtake and as individuals become frustrated they start taking chances and the equation is complete.
Have a lokk next time you are out and see how many drivers are getting agitated when they are held up, and when they do geta clear section they go fo it...
The reason is that if you reduce a 60 limit to a 50 limit, what happens is those that used to drive at 60 will most likely frive around the 48mph mark. Those that were doing 70 in the 60 now get caught behind these people but thier reduction is now 20mph or more.
If relative speeds are lower it actually takes a little longer to complete an overtake and as individuals become frustrated they start taking chances and the equation is complete.
Have a lokk next time you are out and see how many drivers are getting agitated when they are held up, and when they do geta clear section they go fo it...
I think variable limits are the way forward.
The problem is that the limit should then depend on a combination of road conditions, amount of traffic and weather, but this can vary in so short a distance that you'd need a forest of matrix signs.
So instead, perhaps you could have a trained and experienced representative of the legal system, who could assess for themselves a safe speed for conditions and act accordingly. Another advantage of such a system would be that the representative could identify more than just excessive speed for conditions, but other dangerous driving conditions. Also, they wouldn't be limited to blackspots, or places where people frequently break an arbitrary limit.
Apparently such a system operates quite well in other countries?
The problem is that the limit should then depend on a combination of road conditions, amount of traffic and weather, but this can vary in so short a distance that you'd need a forest of matrix signs.
So instead, perhaps you could have a trained and experienced representative of the legal system, who could assess for themselves a safe speed for conditions and act accordingly. Another advantage of such a system would be that the representative could identify more than just excessive speed for conditions, but other dangerous driving conditions. Also, they wouldn't be limited to blackspots, or places where people frequently break an arbitrary limit.
Apparently such a system operates quite well in other countries?
telecat said:
I've said it before an it bears repeating. Given they have the Big "Matrix" Signs this should be the new speed limit laws.
Motorways 100 max on Clear Motorway good conditions.
80 Max On clear But light rain.
60 Max All other conditions excepting Snow and bad visibility where 50 is the Max.
NSL to remain the same.
50 on Single carriageway having no dwellings but having several intersections.
40 for Dwellings on one side only and dual carriageways in Urban areas
30 for Built up areas.
20 for roads within Estates or older terraced house areas.
Variable limit outside schools. As above outside 8am til 4PM. 20 between 8am and 9am, 12am and 1Pm and 3 and 5am 30 between those times.
No camera enforcement unless a limit sign posted before the camera mobile or fixed.
Any body see any flaws??
One flaw maybe. 80mph in light rain. Who decides what is light rain - it too open to interpretation. Also light rain could be the end of a heavy storm and there would be a great risk of aqua planeing (?)
Other than that it makes sense to me.
It should be possible to set something up, the signal box on the railway may be 100 miles away these days.
Traffic density monitoring loops, speed monitoring(traffic master), temperature, fog sensors(which I have seen in Europe), Rain sensors and remote cameras.Finally, input on conditions from mobile trafpol.
Speed limit matrix signs needn't be TOO frequent. These could be used to give drivers advanced warning of an accident ahead, accessed by a control room (monitoring from remote cameras) or locally by Trafpol.
Then displayed many miles back up the motorway.
Is this Utopia? Maybe we will have to wait for some other country to invent it for us, this is "Britain" after all! Seems like all we invent these days is the lowest possible standards.
I need a lie down now in a darkened room!
Traffic density monitoring loops, speed monitoring(traffic master), temperature, fog sensors(which I have seen in Europe), Rain sensors and remote cameras.Finally, input on conditions from mobile trafpol.
Speed limit matrix signs needn't be TOO frequent. These could be used to give drivers advanced warning of an accident ahead, accessed by a control room (monitoring from remote cameras) or locally by Trafpol.
Then displayed many miles back up the motorway.
Is this Utopia? Maybe we will have to wait for some other country to invent it for us, this is "Britain" after all! Seems like all we invent these days is the lowest possible standards.
I need a lie down now in a darkened room!
its missing the point - speed limit this, speed limit that.
Basically if you are driving badly/dangerously you should be pulled by the police not necessary speed dependant.
ie 30 mph can be to fast for outside a school, as can 50 in the snow on a motorway, 100 can be ok on a motorway in good weather as can say 80 on a fast A road. etc....
Get the police back on the roads, let them use their judgement as to the whole range of bad driving - (including inapropriate speeding) Drivers (adults) must take responsibility for their own actions and must learn to think.
Speed does not kill - bad drivers do.
Basically if you are driving badly/dangerously you should be pulled by the police not necessary speed dependant.
ie 30 mph can be to fast for outside a school, as can 50 in the snow on a motorway, 100 can be ok on a motorway in good weather as can say 80 on a fast A road. etc....
Get the police back on the roads, let them use their judgement as to the whole range of bad driving - (including inapropriate speeding) Drivers (adults) must take responsibility for their own actions and must learn to think.
Speed does not kill - bad drivers do.
:sarcasm on:
Adults are no longer allowed to decide things for themselves. Drivers must be protected from themselves by those who really know what's safe. That's what speed limits are for -- to set the safe speed by those who know.
I remember reading a DoT paper which said that drivers had to have taken from them the "illusion of control" that they had when exceeding the speed limit. That's the voice of the expert speaking loud and clear.
We should be grateful for their prescience. After all how can they know every situation in the detail they need to unless they are omniscient? All to save us poor ignorant drivers from having to think for ourselves. How grateful we are for their care.
:sarcasm off:
Adults are no longer allowed to decide things for themselves. Drivers must be protected from themselves by those who really know what's safe. That's what speed limits are for -- to set the safe speed by those who know.
I remember reading a DoT paper which said that drivers had to have taken from them the "illusion of control" that they had when exceeding the speed limit. That's the voice of the expert speaking loud and clear.
We should be grateful for their prescience. After all how can they know every situation in the detail they need to unless they are omniscient? All to save us poor ignorant drivers from having to think for ourselves. How grateful we are for their care.
:sarcasm off:
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