Going over solid white line ... your word Vs his ?

[gone]

1. Cross the line, even slightly with one wheel = Offence.
2. Park within the limited area causing other vehicles to cross the line = Offence.
Both attract 3 points.
Strict liablility too.

There are some defences and exemptions for doing so.

You can cross them to
1. Pass a cyclist, (but with adequate care while doing so)
2. Pass a broken down vehicle (with adequate care)
3. To turn right across the line,
4. When directed by Police Officer or Traffic Warden,
5. You can stop within the durisdiction of solid white lines to onload equipment/goods but the vehicle must be moved immediately the unloading has finished.
6. To pass a slowly moving vehicle which is conducting works such as hedge cutters/verge mowers/road sweepers etc BUT YOU MUST DO SO WITHOUT CAUSING INCONVENIENCE/DANGER TO OTHERS.
7. To negotiate highway defects or road works.

All other occasions such as straightening the road out for a better line, not completing an overtake in time or worse still commencing an overtake of a moving vehicle not listed above will see you commit the offence!

The lines must be preceded by the specified indicating arrows to be valid.

[Streetcop]

gone said:

The lines must be preceded by the specified indicating arrows to be valid.

Excellent point....often overlooked...

Street

[Flat in Fifth]

streaky said:

JMGS4 said: Well, after having watched Jeremy Clarkson yesterday driving the überMerc, he'S obviously going to lose his license as he overtook (clearly visible) over a right-turning lane. I thought it had broken lines around it. If so, there's no restriction (AFAIK) - Streaky (waits to be told differently)

Yes there were broken white lines.

imo regardless of the broken white lines, legality or otherwise there were quite a few dodgy over/undertakes in last nights show.

I know the camera foreshortens things but glad I wasn't driving the lorry coming the other way, but that wasn't the worst.

Lentilist ammo indeed, come on Jezza get your act together. As mentioned on another thread a good bit about road policing undermined by evidence on camera that all we want to do is hoon on public roads.

Frankly we are not amused.

FiF

>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Monday 12th July 13:28

[bennyboysvuk]

Many moons ago I was pulled by a chap in an unmarked car who said that I had overtaken another car on solid white lines. We discussed this for approximately 10 minutes as I could not understand where he thought I had crossed a solid white line.

I used to drive the road every day and was 100% certain that I had not gone over any solid whites. The fella in the police car was 4 cars back when I completed my overtake too. Obviously, his word against mine meant that I wasn't even going to bother with pleading not guilty in court. Result was 3 points and £100 fine I think.

B

PS Apparently, according to a mate in a local nick, the particular copper that pulled me was shall we say, a miserable .

[Davel]

What happens when you're on your bike, overtaking a slow moving car, but still on the correct side of the solid white line (which I understand is legally ok)- the car then moves out a bit, causing you to stray over the solid line.

At the time of starting to overtake, you can safely pass, yet still stay within your side of the road, but suddenly the situation changes - where do you then stand?

[Dwight VanDriver]

Davel.

Legislators just know that you would ask that so they inserted an exemption in the guidelines:

.....in order to avoid an accident. OK.

...but is that overtake absolutely safe???

DVD

[Davel]

Ta for that.

Oh and yes, until the guy started to pull out a bit for no reason whatsoever.

I was no threat to oncoming traffic either, as it was slow moving traffic on both sides and plenty of room between traffic flows.

[Peter Ward]

gone said:

1. Cross the line, even slightly with one wheel = Offence. 2. Park within the limited area causing other vehicles to cross the line = Offence. Both attract 3 points. Strict liablility too.....

So even going over the line on your side of the road is an offence? That wasn't what I was taught, but there you go. I'll have to remember.

But parking in an area with double white lines? How many times have I seen that, and with nothing done about it?

[jacko lah]

nevpugh308 said:

Tref, there's no evidence (apparently) other than the coppers say so. The copper had his speed gun sat on his bike, so Richard thinks that he wanted to catch him for that, and when he couldn't, went for this as a 2nd best. Spoke to Richard today funny enough, he's definately going to take it to court and try and argue the toss.

In the words of a mate's dad who was a magistrate and an enthusiastic driver (Lotus Eclat and Land Rover V8).

95% of magistrates will believe the word of the police man. Never suggest they are lying in court and expect to win, unless you have a bloody good solicitor and third party witnesses.

IIRC

I was once a passenger in a car that went off the road, killed a pedestrain, and turned upside down. In the magistrates court I was the prosecution witness. When asked how fast the car was going (20 mpph less than the 60 limit) the police solicitor said : Well you would say that, your his friend.

To which I replied : I believe lying in court is contempt and I'd go to jail for that, which I don't really think I'd like, so I'm not going to lie am I ?

My mate got off.

[mattrsv]

Personally when out on the bike I pay cursory attention to the placement of double white lines.

I was out with a BIB friend at the weekend and we had this discussion over a beer. He said he would not overtake on double whites for fear of being caught while agreeing that the overtakes I made on double whites were all 100% safe. It would be interesting to understand the criteria for double whites as I know plenty of places where passes can be made 100% safely on the bike or in the Tiv. I guess it is another case of lowest common denominator (1.0 Metro)

Why adhere to a rule that does nothing for your, or anyone else's safety. As has already been said I use them as a guide only bearing in mind the performance of my vehicle, road condition, blah blah blah.

I am sure I will come a cropper one day for my personal interpretation of road traffic guidelines, however, until that day I shall continue with my own judgement, not that of a white line painter.

[Streetcop]

bennyboysvuk said:

Many moons ago I was pulled by a chap in an unmarked car who said that I had overtaken another car on solid white lines. We discussed this for approximately 10 minutes as I could not understand where he thought I had crossed a solid white line. I used to drive the road every day and was 100% certain that I had not gone over any solid whites. The fella in the police car was 4 cars back when I completed my overtake too. Obviously, his word against mine meant that I wasn't even going to bother with pleading not guilty in court. Result was 3 points and £100 fine I think. B PS Apparently, according to a mate in a local nick, the particular copper that pulled me was shall we say, a miserable .

Would it have made your wrongful conviction more palatable if the cop had been the life and soul of the party?

Street

>> Edited by Streetcop on Monday 12th July 17:40

[TripleS]

Streetcop said:

supraman2954 said: What IS this country coming to? 3 points and a fine, possible through the courts, just for straying over a line? Pathetic! Hi Supraman... The problem is...the solid white line should be treated like a brick wall....Even hardened speeders etc usually have an unwritten rule not to contravene solid white lines.. People coming the other way, quite rightly feel that their side of the road will be devoid of any oncoming vehicles due to the solid white line. Motorcyclist sit 3/4 way out in their lane and wouldn't expect a vehicle coming towards them to cross the solid lines. The lines will be put there for safety reasons only. There's no money generation or Scamera stuff here....just solid white lines due to either a bend, hidden dip, crest of a hill etc... It's the only bit of the RTA1988 that I don't think anybody could argue against. Street

I have an unwritten rule that says I do not risk coming into conflict with other road users.

Obviously it is illegal to contravene the double white line system, but it is not necessarily unsafe to do so.

It might be a more useful system if it were to be applied more carefully, but I see too many situations where the 'experts' are obviously not getting it right.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

mattrsv said:

Personally when out on the bike I pay cursory attention to the placement of double white lines. I was out with a BIB friend at the weekend and we had this discussion over a beer. He said he would not overtake on double whites for fear of being caught while agreeing that the overtakes I made on double whites were all 100% safe. It would be interesting to understand the criteria for double whites as I know plenty of places where passes can be made 100% safely on the bike or in the Tiv. I guess it is another case of lowest common denominator (1.0 Metro) Why adhere to a rule that does nothing for your, or anyone else's safety. As has already been said I use them as a guide only bearing in mind the performance of my vehicle, road condition, blah blah blah. I am sure I will come a cropper one day for my personal interpretation of road traffic guidelines, however, until that day I shall continue with my own judgement, not that of a white line painter.

When you say that you are sure you 'will come a cropper one day . . .' I imagine you mean get caught breaking the law, in which case that is also my only fear. I have no doubt that our objective of avoiding conflict with other road users can be reliably maintained. The double white line system is quite incidental to that.

Mattrsv and I may hold something of a minority view here, but so what. The majority are not always right.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

mattrsv said:

Personally when out on the bike I pay cursory attention to the placement of double white lines. I was out with a BIB friend at the weekend and we had this discussion over a beer. He said he would not overtake on double whites for fear of being caught while agreeing that the overtakes I made on double whites were all 100% safe. It would be interesting to understand the criteria for double whites as I know plenty of places where passes can be made 100% safely on the bike or in the Tiv. I guess it is another case of lowest common denominator (1.0 Metro) Why adhere to a rule that does nothing for your, or anyone else's safety. As has already been said I use them as a guide only bearing in mind the performance of my vehicle, road condition, blah blah blah. I am sure I will come a cropper one day for my personal interpretation of road traffic guidelines, however, until that day I shall continue with my own judgement, not that of a white line painter.

When you say that you are sure you 'will come a cropper one day . . .' I imagine you mean get caught breaking the law, in which case that is also my only fear. I have no doubt that our objective of avoiding conflict with other road users can be reliably maintained. The double white line system is quite incidental to that.

Mattrsv and I may hold something of a minority view here, but so what. The majority are not always right.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Apologies everyone. I have cocked it up again and sent the post twice.

A very embarrassed TripleS.

>> Edited by TripleS on Monday 12th July 20:54

[mattrsv]

Indeed Triple S, thanks for clarifying.

I meant fall foul of the law, not of an accident. I overtake when safe to do so and of course on a modern sports bike the distance required to do so is less than your average car.

As you say, we may be in a minority here, but post this in the Biker Banter section and the view may be different???

[edc]

The problenm with applying subjective decision making to whether or not you will 'break' the law in crossing double white lines is just that. The whole 'it is clear and safe' reasoning is subjective, plus some road users knowing what the double white lines strictly mean may not be expecting an overtake here, which might lead to other problems in iteself.

[gone]

mattrsv said:

Personally when out on the bike I pay cursory attention to the placement of double white lines.

I think you need to pay absolutley full attention to these signs. They are traffic signs exactly the same as a red traffic light. Do you pay cursory attention to those too? are you an Amber Gambler?

mattrsv said:

I was out with a BIB friend at the weekend and we had this discussion over a beer. He said he would not overtake on double whites for fear of being caught....

and probably more than in the Biblical sense of 'being caught'

mattrsv said:

while agreeing that the overtakes I made on double whites were all 100% safe. It would be interesting to understand the criteria for double whites as I know plenty of places where passes can be made 100% safely on the bike or in the Tiv.

That may be so until you meet yourself coming the other way! Then what?

mattrsv said:

I guess it is another case of lowest common denominator (1.0 Metro)

Not necessarily!

mattrsv said:

Why adhere to a rule that does nothing for your, or anyone else's safety.

I find that statement quite disturbing to think that you are so good that you will never become a hazard when you decide to be on the wrong side of a solid white line you pay corsory attention to!

mattrsv said:

As has already been said I use them as a guide only bearing in mind the performance of my vehicle, road condition, blah blah blah.

I hope you don't ever have the unfortunate situation where you are having to explain that to an investigating traffpol or a judge , from what you have posted, I cannot be so sure!

mattrsv said:

I am sure I will come a cropper one day for my personal interpretation of road traffic guidelines, however, until that day I shall continue with my own judgement, not that of a white line painter.

I hope for your and the other persons sake, you all survice it!

>> Edited by gone on Monday 12th July 23:26

[tom_audi_tt]

Davel said:

Ta for that. Oh and yes, until the guy started to pull out a bit for no reason whatsoever. I was no threat to oncoming traffic either, as it was slow moving traffic on both sides and plenty of room between traffic flows.

Of course there was a reason...he was in slow moving traffic...and you were able to proceed by virtue of being a biker...until he baulked you (or tried)

I think the next edition of the Highway Code has a proposed addendum to the "Mirror Signal Manoeuvre" section entitled "Mirror Don't Signal Piss Someone Off" for those who don't like cyclists and bikers overtaking them in traffic, or can see the invisible 'after me' line on Merge in Turn - Use Both Lanes markers
followed by "Mirror What Mirror!" for those 'in their own little world' drivers

>> Edited by tom_audi_tt on Tuesday 13th July 02:07

[Streetcop]

Dont forget..the solid white lines mean...'No Crossing them'...not necessarily 'No overtaking'...

So for example, if the lane is quite wide and there is a motorcyclist behind; if you move over slightly and he can pass between you and the solid white line, it's perfectly legal for Mr Biker.

Street

[jacko lah]

Streetcop said:

Dont forget..the solid white lines mean...'No Crossing them'...not necessarily 'No overtaking'... So for example, if the lane is quite wide and there is a motorcyclist behind; if you move over slightly and he can pass between you and the solid white line, it's perfectly legal for Mr Biker. Street

There is a theory that removing ALL lines would improve road safety, as people would have to think.