Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

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Rosscow said:

So if someone like me has passed their B test post 1997 but pre 2013, when they take their B+E post 2013 they won't be restricted to a 3500 MAM trailer?

Correct but I bet you never need a trailer over 3500 MAM and if you do then it will need something like air brakes

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HoggyR32 said:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I'll give it a go.

Had a discussion with a workmate who says he can drive a lorry and trailer on his licence. To paint the picture, he has an lgv licence for rigid vehicles (C2 is it) and passed his test prior to 1997. What can he legally drive?

B
BE no weight restrictions
C1
C1E 107 = max total MAM of 8250 kgs (7500 GVW + 750 kgs MAM trailer or perhaps 6000 GVW + 2250 MAM trailer)
C with max trailer of 750 kgs MAM
D1 101 = not for hire or reward
D1E 101 = not for hire or reward

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300bhp/ton said:

Thanks very interesting. But what exactly does this really mean?

From my understanding it is saying "all" B licence holders have the same restrictions, as in no difference in what year you obtained it (all post 1996).

But more interestingly it seems to be implying that a trailer MAM can now be heavier than the tow vehicles mass (however they are defining mass)??

Is this assumption correct?



To help me visualise this. If for example you had tow vehicle such as a Land Rover at 1600kg kerb weight with a tow rating of 3500kg.

And a trailer with a a MAM of 1900kg. Previously you couldn't tow this on a B licence due to the trailer MAM exceeding the vehicle weight, but now according your letter you can?

All means ALL so all those with only a B licence and towing with it are under the same laws/rules

Yes, the trailer MAM can now be heavier than the towing vehicle but for B licence towing that is going to be a rarity under the total MAM rule

Your landy at 1600 kerb would be about 2100 GVW so 3500 minus 2100 = 1400 max for the trailer MAM

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300bhp/ton said:

Thanks.

So in theory, if you could find a vehicle with a MAM of say 1700kg and a tow rating of 2000kg and a trailer with a MAM of 1800kg, then the combined MAM's would be 3500kg, but you could realistically tow an 1100-1200kg car on a trailer on a B licence?

Yes - but try to find a vehicle with a 1700 GVW and a towing capacity of 1800 because I do not think there is one - waits to be corrected !

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Rosscow said:

Rog,

Just to clarify that nothing has changed since post #1 in this thread:

If I wanted to tow a caravan that would make the total weight of car/caravan over the 3500kg limit, I presume I can drive under L plates on my provisional license with my Dad or father-in-law supervising me with their 'Grandfather rights' B+E entitlement? Obviously over 21 years old, 3 years experience etc.

Am I correct?

The one thing that has changed since post 1 for B licence towing is that the rule which stated the trailer MAM or MTPLM must not exceed the vehicle kerb weight has been revoked on 19/01/2013

The rest stays the same so yes, you can be supervised as you stated

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Rosscow said:

Excellent, thank you for your guidance!

Ross

Remember how you did the road drive on your car test and drive that way if poss as well as doing a lot of reversing and un/coupling because that will set you up for a very short B+E course and test in the future if you go for that

MIRRORS (always both) and blind spots when moving off etc is what the DSA want to see

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If the actual weight of the load (car) is 1300 and the lightest trailer I know of for doing that is 400 and you could get that trailer plated at 1700 then you would need a towing vehicle which had a max GVW of 1800 with a towing capacity of at least 1700 ...... never come across such a vehicle

You could tow under B+E rules with L plates and a supervising B+E driver

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To tow a trailer over 750 kgs plated MAM on a B licence there is one extra rule in addition to the usual B+E towing rules and that is ....

The vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not total more than 3500 kgs

GVW & MAM have the same meaning - the maximum weight they can legally be when fully loaded

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MrLizard said:

thanks very much for the information that did actually make sense to me

I try to make it as simple as I can .... unlike the GOV sites !1

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Comacchio said:

I'm mid argument with someone at the moment and need advice..

Licence: B
Car: GVW: 1800 KG, Unladen weight: 1380 KG, Max braked towing weight 1500 KG
Trailer: 1300 KG Braked, Total laden weight of trailer: 1100 KG.

Is this legal to tow with the B licence?

Thanks,

Allan

I am ASSUMING the trailer 1300 is the plated MAM for it ???????

LEGAL - 1800 GVW + 1300 MAM = 3100 so under the 3500 limit for towing with a B licence

NOTE:- With a GVW of 1800 and a towing capacity of 1500 you could have a trailer plated at 1700 but can only load it so it has an actual max weight of 1500

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jagracer said:

Do you need to have a medical to obtain a B+E licence?

No

No medical + no theory

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BullyB said:

I found this thread helpful when deciding what to do myself so thought I would share my experiance.

I just did a B+E driving course which was two days training and the test first thing on the third day.
I actually really enjoyed myself and by the end of the two days was really comfortable driving everywhere. I think the course has not only showed me how to tow but improved my driving in general.

The test was just over an hour and I drove for about 50 minutes around town, villages, country lanes and dual carriageways.
I just chatted to the examiner all the time.

I highly recomend doing it if you have the time.

Did you notice/feel the 600 kgs of sand bags or the 1 x 1000 litre water IBC loaded in the trailer?

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mattydoh said:

Can someone just check my maths for me - I am looking at towing a 205 GTI race car (Approx 750kg) on a braked single axle trailer plated for 1000kg load capacity and 1300kg gross weight on the back of a VW Bora 1.9TDI (130bhp + 1400kg kerbweight) with a braked towing limit of 1400kg and a gross vehicle weight of 1850kg.

I am on a category B licence and by my reckoning it should be ok - gross weight of 3150kg maximum and the trailer is under the cars towing limit (and should be at ~75% kerbweight assuming the trailer weighs 300kg). Can anyone just give this a check over?

The important figures are 1850 GVW and 1300 plated MAM = 3150 and that is under the 3500 max for B towing so ok

Percentage weights are advice for caravans only due to their design

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Nebby said:

This has been asked many times & i should be able to work it out from the info stated which is very informative, but need to double check.

Firstly i have a car license from 1987, if i had a Transit t330 rwd swb low roof van, gtw of 5300, gvw of 3300, ( payload of 1376 is possible but no where near that when i would be trailering ) kerb weight of 1924. Trailer would be something like a ( not yet purchased ) ifor williams lm146 beavertail gw 3500, unladen 725, what would be the most weight i could put on the trailer.

Also could i deliver cars/plant machinery & be paid or does it need a tacho & if i did need a tacho is it possible to fit.

Many thanks

You have a B+E licence
You have a vehicle with a GTW of 5300 and most probably a max listed towing capacity of 2000 (5300-3300=2000)
you have a trailer with a MAM of 3500
The lower figure between 3500 and 2000 is used as the maximum actual weight that can be used so that would be 2000
The trailer weighs 725 empty so that leaves a payload for the trailer of 1275 (2000-725=1275)

Needs a tacho if being used commercially with trailer and they can be fitted but quite costly to do


I suggest a visit to http://fordtransit.org/forum/index.php?sid=3f7a562... as those guys have been there and done it

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Nebby said:

Thanks for that, so to be able to tow more would I need to look at a vehicle with a higher gtw but lower gvw, i.e something like a discovery & would I still need a tacho on that aswell being as it's a car?

Also is there a website that I can go on to check gvw & gtw weights for different vehicles.

Many thanks

Edited by Nebby on Wednesday 16th April 18:25

No website for that but google individual vehicles such as ..... ford mondeo kgs gvw towing capacity

Unless an exemption applies the total of the GVW plus trailer MAM being over 3500 invokes the tacho rules and not the actual weight
there is one exception - where the vehicle plated GTW is not more than 3500 because it is deemed that no matter what the total of the GVW/MAMs are the 3500 cannot be legally exceeded

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Nebby said:

So just to clarify i would need a tacho for a Discovery aswell which leads me to my earlier question can a tacho be fitted to any vehicle & is it worth it?, which would lead me to beleive is there any work out involving moving vehicles around the country as an independent using a trailer which is why most of them hitchhike?

Edited by Nebby on Thursday 17th April 11:47

Do not know about that industry

If the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM total more than 3500 kgs and an exemption does not apply then it comes under tacho rules for commercial use

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Nebby said:

Which makes no sense really, I could drive a range rover with a trailer, combined weight of say 5-6000 kgs & drive as long as I like for personal reasons, bring in the fact that somebody's being paid for doing exactly the same & it's a different law, bonkers.

Same for driving other things such as a 7.5 tonne LGV
Privately used as a personal horsebox = tacho exempt
Use it to deliver horses as part of a business = under tacho regs

It makes perfect sense to put the driver under regs when in a commercial situation but not to when doing things privately

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adamfraser said:

R0G - Can you have a look over this just to make sure I have this right..

Sitting B+E In the next month or so (Got my licence after cutoff) - so I can tow my track car to events etc.

Taken from the V5 - Audi A6 3.0TDI Le Mans Quattro

Maximum braked towing weight - 1900kg

Trailer - Ifor Williams CT136TA weight 495kg (taken from the site - haven't purchased yet)

Track car weighs around 1200kg.

On the V5, Max permissible mass of Audi 2,325kg and mass in service of 1820kg.

So is this the case, that even if I had total weight of trailer and car of 1700kg there or there abouts, I would still have weight in the vehicle for a small toolbox/maybe a set of wheels/tyres etc?

New to this and it's a bit of a minefield, any advice appreciated.

With a B+E licence ....
Max towing capacity = 1900
Trailer max MAM = 2000
Empty trailer 500 + load 1200 = 1700
200 within limit
Max you can load on trailer = 1400

The weight you put in the trailer has nothing to do with the weight you put in the car
The car has its own max weight = 2325
The trailer has its own max weight = 1900 due to max towing capacity of vehicle

Edited by R0G on Sunday 27th April 19:14

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gigybeast said:

I am on a B licence ...... 500kg, is it possible for me to tow that on a trailer? of some sort, it will only be a trailer that can tow that car

IFOR CT115 car transporter trailer weighs 350 empty and has a MAM of 1400 so that trailer with a towing vehicle which has a GVW of no more than 2100 (1400 + 2100 = 3500) and a towing capacity of at least 850 kgs (350 + 500 = 850) is legal on a B licence

If the towing vehicle has a GVW higher than 2100 - lets say 2300 - then the trailer can be down plated to 1200 by contacting the manufacturer - that would still work for you as you only need it to be able to take a load of 500 - 1200 minus 350 = 850 which is well above the 500 you need


Found a better one ....
http://www.prgtrailers.co.uk/cms/resources/prg-min...
Minisport trailer with a MAM of 1000 - empty 250 - payload 750
You could have a towing vehicle with a GVW of 2500 with that trailer on a B licence

Edited by R0G on Tuesday 13th May 20:12