Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[Slow]

Gtom said:

Slow said:

This isnt for a 5th wheel, the maths on making that work doesnt add up enough. Had been in contact with the companies involved and it would be close to 20k for trailer/conversion etc.

This is just me trying to get the cheapest possible pickup that isnt a Defender which will tow 3.5 ton due to needing one now.

What about an Isuzu Dmax? I think from 2013 onwards they can tow 3.5t.

Looking at 12k+ for these. Was on the shortlist but figured if I can spend 6k instead why bother spending more.
Only got put onto the american stuff when chatting with a friend who transports cars/vans/vehciles that are heavy for a living and swears by the american stuff.

Effortless oldschool easy to fix and lhd not a big deal is basically what he said.

[V8RX7]

Slow said:

Effortless oldschool easy to fix and lhd not a big deal is basically what he said.

Agreed

That's why I've owned a few F150 / Dodge Ram, their weight and LWB makes towing a joy - LPG makes them cheap to run

LHD isn't generally an issue although it can be nerve wracking on narrow lanes

I now run a 4.7 HO Jeep as it is shorter and RHD and can tow 3500

If I was towing more I'd probably buy the 3.0D (merc engine)

[Slow]

Ive driven a bunch of the american stuff, just previously always in america so big roads/lhd wasnt even something you noticed. However I was happy with how they drive and the interiors etc so know I can live with that bit easily.

[PurpleSector]

R0G said:

No legal need to remove brakes
Simply contact trailer manufacturer to get trailer down plated to 750

You will be left with only a 430 payload for the trailer

Edited by R0G on Monday 10th August 06:53

ROG I went ahead and bought an ID plate online and downplated it myself, which I gather from reading the rest of this thread isn’t allowed as it needs to be the manufacturer. I should of asked at the time you replied if I could do it myself, I just assumed it was ok. If done officially is it recorded on a database? Can the police tell at the side of the road? What would be the repercussions if I was stopped? I don’t really understand what’s unsafe about downplating your own trailer to bring the weight into a legal window.

I kept the original ID plate in the glovebox, thinking it would be easier to explain to someone what I’d done and why, turns out it might have incriminated me more 🤣

The trailer was made by Conway, who I don’t think exist anymore. Although I’m told might be made by someone else now. If they don’t want to downplate it what are my options to be legal? Buy a new 750kg trailer ?!

[R0G]

PurpleSector said:

ROG I went ahead and bought an ID plate online and downplated it myself, which I gather from reading the rest of this thread isn’t allowed as it needs to be the manufacturer. I should of asked at the time you replied if I could do it myself, I just assumed it was ok. If done officially is it recorded on a database? Can the police tell at the side of the road? What would be the repercussions if I was stopped? I don’t really understand what’s unsafe about downplating your own trailer to bring the weight into a legal window.

I kept the original ID plate in the glovebox, thinking it would be easier to explain to someone what I’d done and why, turns out it might have incriminated me more ??

The trailer was made by Conway, who I don’t think exist anymore. Although I’m told might be made by someone else now. If they don’t want to downplate it what are my options to be legal? Buy a new 750kg trailer ?!

If an incident occurred then it is likely that all insurance will be voided using a false plate

What licence do you have - B or BE?
What is the GVW of the vehicle?
What is the max tow capacity of the vehicle?
What is the current legal plated MAM weight of the trailer?

[PurpleSector]

R0G said:

PurpleSector said:

ROG I went ahead and bought an ID plate online and downplated it myself, which I gather from reading the rest of this thread isn’t allowed as it needs to be the manufacturer. I should of asked at the time you replied if I could do it myself, I just assumed it was ok. If done officially is it recorded on a database? Can the police tell at the side of the road? What would be the repercussions if I was stopped? I don’t really understand what’s unsafe about downplating your own trailer to bring the weight into a legal window.

I kept the original ID plate in the glovebox, thinking it would be easier to explain to someone what I’d done and why, turns out it might have incriminated me more ??

The trailer was made by Conway, who I don’t think exist anymore. Although I’m told might be made by someone else now. If they don’t want to downplate it what are my options to be legal? Buy a new 750kg trailer ?!

If an incident occurred then it is likely that all insurance will be voided using a false plate

What licence do you have - B or BE?
What is the GVW of the vehicle?
What is the max tow capacity of the vehicle?
What is the current legal plated MAM weight of the trailer?

Thanks Rog.

Void insurance - serious stuff! Glad I haven’t used it yet - albeit because of covid. Again, can I ask - how does anybody ascertain that it’s a false plate? Let’s say I buy a trailer, how do I know it’s not a real plate?

B licence

GVW 2900(just ordered a replacement that will be 3100 GVW)

Tow capacity 2500 braked, 750 unbraked.

Manufacturer trailer spec - single axle braked, 900kg GVW, 580 payload. (It’s a box van trailer for 2 motorbikes)

[R0G]

PurpleSector said:

Thanks Rog.

Void insurance - serious stuff! Glad I haven’t used it yet - albeit because of covid. Again, can I ask - how does anybody ascertain that it’s a false plate? Let’s say I buy a trailer, how do I know it’s not a real plate?

B licence

GVW 2900(just ordered a replacement that will be 3100 GVW)

Tow capacity 2500 braked, 750 unbraked.

Manufacturer trailer spec - single axle braked, 900kg GVW, 580 payload. (It’s a box van trailer for 2 motorbikes)

I doubt you will come across a trailer with a false plate

With a GVW of 2900 on a B licence then the max trailer you can tow is 750kg - generally one of those small un-braked trailers
You could contact the trailer manufacturer and have the 900 reduced to 750 but that reduces the payload to 430kg

Procedure =
You contact manufacturer
You remove plate and send to manufacturer with payment
Manufacturer sends you new plate
You fit new plate

[eltax91]

R0G said:

I doubt you will come across a trailer with a false plate

With a GVW of 2900 on a B licence then the max trailer you can tow is 750kg - generally one of those small un-braked trailers
You could contact the trailer manufacturer and have the 900 reduced to 750 but that reduces the payload to 430kg

Procedure =
You contact manufacturer
You remove plate and send to manufacturer with payment
Manufacturer sends you new plate
You fit new plate

I think the procedure was already clear. The point he's making though, is how does anyone actually know?

There's no central database, so if the plate looks factory, what happens if BiB stop him at the side of the road? How do they know its not legitimate? And how exactly is his insurance invalid? If the plate fell off one day and wasn't replaced, he would still be insured in an accident.

None of my car policies state in the terms that changing the plate on my trailer invalidates the cover

[Slow]

If it looks right you will be ok is my general rule.

[PurpleSector]

Thanks for the replies.

480kg is ok as it’s just 2 motocross bikes I shift. Or sheets of building materials.

I was pretty clear on the procedure, but the manufacturer of my trailer doesn’t exist now, so what do I do, who do I even ask?

If it’s not recorded anywhere and there’s no database of trailers used by the police or authorities how does anyone argue one way or the other?

In respect to my situation it’s all slightly nonsense anyway. In my opinion I’m far safer pulling that trailer on my transit than on my car, but I appreciate there has to be rules because not everyone has common sense.

[HustleRussell]

If the trailer is up to 750kg MAM, you can tow it behind your transit (assuming transit is up to 3,500kg MAM)

[R0G]

If manufacturer does not exist any more then the only way is to remove any plate then change the tyres so the tyre load ratings do not add up to more than 750kg (375 max each tyre)

[944 Man]

I wouldn't be so sure about not seeing made up figures on plates. Look how many Snatch LRs you see with a gross vehicle weight of 3,500 kilos. These are perfect copies replacing the 4 tonne originals: blank trailer plates are a dime a dozen.

It isn't the point, but it is a point.

[eltax91]

944 Man said:

I wouldn't be so sure about not seeing made up figures on plates. Look how many Snatch LRs you see with a gross vehicle weight of 3,500 kilos. These are perfect copies replacing the 4 tonne originals: blank trailer plates are a dime a dozen.

It isn't the point, but it is a point.

Exactly. In the example of the defunct trailer company, changing tyres to downrate the trailer seems daft. You know the trailer has a certain MaM. You are REDUCING the capacity it can carry. Therefore you are making it safer.

As suggested, this often means it can be towed with a more suitable vehicle (like the transit here). I see no problem in this case getting your own plate made and fitting it.

And most importantly, although not strictly to the letter of the law legal, its common sense and I really don’t see a copper having any clue what has happened, never mind being arsed to go into enough detail to at the roadside to fine you

[R0G]

A plate which is not registered is not legal - that is a fact
No plate means the total of the tyre load rating are used as the MAM

[eltax91]

Thanks R0G. Clearly you know your onions here. So, as others have asked, and me. Registered where?

[eltax91]

Taken from the government consultation document on registering trailers and using them in Europe. So, it’s not a commercial trailer and it’s under 3500kg, no requirement to register it. Therefore no requirement to register it if you change plates.

As I said, I’m a layman here. If you know different, please tell us and show us where it’s documented. Since as you say R0G it’s illegal to change weight plate, it’ll be documented somewhere won’t it.


As outlined above, compulsory registration will apply to trailers used for international travel to, or through, a foreign country that has ratified the 1968 Convention. This will apply to commercial trailers with a gross weight over 750kg and all trailers with a gross weight over 3,500kg. The same registration process will apply for all trailers.

[eltax91]

Further reading should anyone wish:


Change of keeper
41 From the responses to the consultation, we recognise that a trailer may be kept and used by several different individuals or organisations during its life. It is important that all information recorded within the register is correct, including the details of the keeper.
42 When a registered keeper disposes of a registered trailer, by sale, for scrap or any other means, they must notify the DVLA. This notification must confirm the date the registered keeper ceased to be the keeper of the trailer and, if applicable, the name and address of the new keeper. Once this notification has been made the trailer will be removed from the keeper's online trailer account with DVLA.
43 The new keeper may subsequently make an application that they be recorded in the register as the registered keeper of the trailer. A fee of £21 will be payable for the issuing of a new registration document to the new registered keeper.
44 The new keeper is not required to become the registered keeper of the trailer if it will not be used on journeys to, or through, foreign countries who have not ratified the 1968 Convention. However, if they wish to use the trailer for international journeys to, or through, a foreign country that has ratified the 1968 Convention, it is necessary to first become the registered keeper

Also see this government website. Stating that for sole use in the U.K., trailer registration not required.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/trailer-registration

Edited by eltax91 on Thursday 18th February 09:25

[R0G]

I would suggest contacting any UK trailer manufacturer who will explain the trailer registration stuff
Ifor Wiiliams and Bateson can explain it very well but there are others

[eltax91]

R0G said:

I would suggest contacting any UK trailer manufacturer who will explain the trailer registration stuff
Ifor Wiiliams and Bateson can explain it very well but there are others

Yeh R0G, i totally get that. And if you contact them and ask them to explain trailer registration, then i'm sure they'll tell you all about the registration process.

However, if the trailer is made in the UK, for use in the UK, then it's clear from the links i provided that there's no requirement to actually register the trailer. Therefore, when the chap in question here decides to change plates, there is possibly no information anywhere on a register of what his trailer originally had on it's chassis plate? So what's the stop him changing it, and at the side of the road how will it ever be proved beyond reasonable doubt that he has?

As i've stated a few times and through direct contact with yourself earlier in the thread, i consider you a bit of "font of all knowledge" on this subject, so was hoping you could enlighten us on the database where this info is kept, where/ how we can access it etc etc.......