Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
Discussion
WIth your licence you can do the following:
Tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
It doesn't actually say that the combined MAM's have to be no more than 3,500 kg's, although personally I think it's implied. Others may disagree.
Tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
It doesn't actually say that the combined MAM's have to be no more than 3,500 kg's, although personally I think it's implied. Others may disagree.
strath44 said:
Hello old thread but hoping for some help, I have been on the Gov website but its so difficult to figure out.
I am needing to collect a car but passed my test in 1999.
My father in law passed around 1975 he has driven large trailers before but I was hoping to split the driving as it is a long way.
The tow car is a 2011 Mitsubishi L200 double cab. The car to be picked up is 1330kg
Are there any car trailers I can hire where I can drive it on my licence empty down and my father in law drives it back?
A trailer rental company I spoke to mentioned that I cannot tow a braked trailer empty or otherwise on my licence.
if the 'empty' weights were less than 3500kg all up you may be 'safe' to tow the empty trailer I am needing to collect a car but passed my test in 1999.
My father in law passed around 1975 he has driven large trailers before but I was hoping to split the driving as it is a long way.
The tow car is a 2011 Mitsubishi L200 double cab. The car to be picked up is 1330kg
Are there any car trailers I can hire where I can drive it on my licence empty down and my father in law drives it back?
A trailer rental company I spoke to mentioned that I cannot tow a braked trailer empty or otherwise on my licence.
the trailer rental people are incorrect but are probably covering their arses with respect to post 97 licence holders due to all the variables in the topic so it;s just easier for them to restrict the rental of large trailers to B+E holders ( in the same way some van hire places won't rent you a 7.5 tonner without an O-licence and a tachocard - even though you don;t need them for genuinely private work just have C1 or C licence)
Edited by mph1977 on Tuesday 30th April 14:26
strath44 said:
Hello old thread but hoping for some help, I have been on the Gov website but its so difficult to figure out.
I am needing to collect a car but passed my test in 1999.
My father in law passed around 1975 he has driven large trailers before but I was hoping to split the driving as it is a long way.
The tow car is a 2011 Mitsubishi L200 double cab. The car to be picked up is 1330kg
Are there any car trailers I can hire where I can drive it on my licence empty down and my father in law drives it back?
A trailer rental company I spoke to mentioned that I cannot tow a braked trailer empty or otherwise on my licence.
The rental company is correct that you cannot tow what you intended on your B licenceI am needing to collect a car but passed my test in 1999.
My father in law passed around 1975 he has driven large trailers before but I was hoping to split the driving as it is a long way.
The tow car is a 2011 Mitsubishi L200 double cab. The car to be picked up is 1330kg
Are there any car trailers I can hire where I can drive it on my licence empty down and my father in law drives it back?
A trailer rental company I spoke to mentioned that I cannot tow a braked trailer empty or otherwise on my licence.
For B licence towing
The GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer cannot be more than 3500 kgs
The plated MAM of the trailer cannot be more then the kerbweight of the vehicle
The Govt site omitted the word MAM in error but that does not change the law
Sorry to dig this up again.
Im 18, mum has had licence donkeys years as in long before 97.
If i buy a 300tdi disco insure it in my name, stick a double axle ifor williams trailer on.
Then just put L plates on and have my mum with me im fine to tow?
A normal comparison website insurance policy would cover towing right? Or do you need to ask for it?
Im 18, mum has had licence donkeys years as in long before 97.
If i buy a 300tdi disco insure it in my name, stick a double axle ifor williams trailer on.
Then just put L plates on and have my mum with me im fine to tow?
A normal comparison website insurance policy would cover towing right? Or do you need to ask for it?
Slow said:
Sorry to dig this up again.
Im 18, mum has had licence donkeys years as in long before 97.
If i buy a 300tdi disco insure it in my name, stick a double axle ifor williams trailer on.
Then just put L plates on and have my mum with me im fine to tow?
A normal comparison website insurance policy would cover towing right? Or do you need to ask for it?
MUM as supervising driver = OKIm 18, mum has had licence donkeys years as in long before 97.
If i buy a 300tdi disco insure it in my name, stick a double axle ifor williams trailer on.
Then just put L plates on and have my mum with me im fine to tow?
A normal comparison website insurance policy would cover towing right? Or do you need to ask for it?
Inform insurer what you will be doing and see what they say because all insurers have different rules
Sorry to add another reply to this topic, but it's very confusing indeed!
We're looking to tow a Caterham using a Ford Galaxy. We have licences post 1997 with the ordinary B licence.
The Ford Galaxy in question is a Titanium 140 TDCI with a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2505 kg and an unladen kerb weight of 1733 kg.
We don't have a trailer yet, but I'd imagine we'd be looking at one with a MAM of 1200KG since the Caterham only weighs 550KG.
So, from the government site:
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:
A trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
So by what I can tell:
MAM of trailer: 1200
Kerb weight of vehicle: 1750
Total: 2950KG
That puts us underneath the 3500kg limit so we should be allowed to tow? Have I understood this correctly? Some documentation says we should be using the GVW of the Galaxy and no the kerb weight, which would obviously put as over at 3705kg.
If anyone has a few minutes spare to look over the above I'd very much appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to look at doing the additional test.
Cheers,
Andy
We're looking to tow a Caterham using a Ford Galaxy. We have licences post 1997 with the ordinary B licence.
The Ford Galaxy in question is a Titanium 140 TDCI with a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2505 kg and an unladen kerb weight of 1733 kg.
We don't have a trailer yet, but I'd imagine we'd be looking at one with a MAM of 1200KG since the Caterham only weighs 550KG.
So, from the government site:
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:
A trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
So by what I can tell:
MAM of trailer: 1200
Kerb weight of vehicle: 1750
Total: 2950KG
That puts us underneath the 3500kg limit so we should be allowed to tow? Have I understood this correctly? Some documentation says we should be using the GVW of the Galaxy and no the kerb weight, which would obviously put as over at 3705kg.
If anyone has a few minutes spare to look over the above I'd very much appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to look at doing the additional test.
Cheers,
Andy
Edited by framerateuk on Tuesday 25th June 11:43
Sadly the direct gov site is wrong and is it sill not updated?
I suspect it could be used as a valid defence should something happen, because it is offering wrong info. I actually contacted the DVLA about this and here is their reply:
I suspect it could be used as a valid defence should something happen, because it is offering wrong info. I actually contacted the DVLA about this and here is their reply:
Technical.Officers@vosa.gov.uk said:
You are right it would be logical to infer from the website that in the case of a heavy trailer the sum of the towing vehicle unladen weight and trailer MAM can be up to 3500 kg. Unfortunately the website does not exactly transcribe the law, which says in the table in part 1 of Schedule 2 to the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999:-
"Category B: Motor vehicles, other than vehicles included in category A,F,K or P, having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes and not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, including (i) a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the trailer has a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilogrammes, and (ii) a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the tractor vehicle."
From the above it is much clearer that in case (ii) the 3.5 tonne limited maximum authorised mass of the combination is the sum of the maximum authorised masses of the tractor vehicle and trailer. Accordingly it is not what you would infer from the website, which is an attempt to summarise detailed legislation in plain English but which has unfortunately lost important meaning.
Please also note the website refers to unladen weight and kerb weight as if they are synonymous, but they are not. Kerb weight includes the weight of a full tank of fuel and engine water, whereas the unladen weight excludes them so is typically around 50 kg lighter. It is the unladen weight that is in the legislation and the driving licences regulations do not reference or define kerb weight anywhere.
"Category B: Motor vehicles, other than vehicles included in category A,F,K or P, having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 3.5 tonnes and not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, including (i) a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the trailer has a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilogrammes, and (ii) a combination of any such vehicle and a trailer where the maximum authorised mass of the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes and the maximum authorised mass of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the tractor vehicle."
From the above it is much clearer that in case (ii) the 3.5 tonne limited maximum authorised mass of the combination is the sum of the maximum authorised masses of the tractor vehicle and trailer. Accordingly it is not what you would infer from the website, which is an attempt to summarise detailed legislation in plain English but which has unfortunately lost important meaning.
Please also note the website refers to unladen weight and kerb weight as if they are synonymous, but they are not. Kerb weight includes the weight of a full tank of fuel and engine water, whereas the unladen weight excludes them so is typically around 50 kg lighter. It is the unladen weight that is in the legislation and the driving licences regulations do not reference or define kerb weight anywhere.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 25th June 12:09
framerateuk said:
Sorry to add another reply to this topic, but it's very confusing indeed!
We're looking to tow a Caterham using a Ford Galaxy. We have licences post 1997 with the ordinary B licence.
The Ford Galaxy in question is a Titanium 140 TDCI with a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2505 kg and an unladen kerb weight of 1733 kg.
We don't have a trailer yet, but I'd imagine we'd be looking at one with a MAM of 1200KG since the Caterham only weighs 550KG.
So, from the government site:
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:
A trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
So by what I can tell:
MAM of trailer: 1200
Kerb weight of vehicle: 1750
Total: 2950KG
That puts us underneath the 3500kg limit so we should be allowed to tow? Have I understood this correctly? Some documentation says we should be using the GVW of the Galaxy and no the kerb weight, which would obviously put as over at 3705kg.
If anyone has a few minutes spare to look over the above I'd very much appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to look at doing the additional test.
Cheers,
Andy
My interpretation of the rules would be that this is not legal because the MAM of the tow vehicle plus that of the trailer is 3,705kg. It does appear that this is a grey area in terms of the direct gov website, but the response posted by 300BHP/Ton suggests that my interpretation may well be the right one!We're looking to tow a Caterham using a Ford Galaxy. We have licences post 1997 with the ordinary B licence.
The Ford Galaxy in question is a Titanium 140 TDCI with a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2505 kg and an unladen kerb weight of 1733 kg.
We don't have a trailer yet, but I'd imagine we'd be looking at one with a MAM of 1200KG since the Caterham only weighs 550KG.
So, from the government site:
Licences held from 1 January 1997
If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:
A trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)
So by what I can tell:
MAM of trailer: 1200
Kerb weight of vehicle: 1750
Total: 2950KG
That puts us underneath the 3500kg limit so we should be allowed to tow? Have I understood this correctly? Some documentation says we should be using the GVW of the Galaxy and no the kerb weight, which would obviously put as over at 3705kg.
If anyone has a few minutes spare to look over the above I'd very much appreciate it. Otherwise I'll have to look at doing the additional test.
Cheers,
Andy
HustleRussell said:
My interpretation of the rules would be that this is not legal because the MAM of the tow vehicle plus that of the trailer is 3,705kg. It does appear that this is a grey area in terms of the direct gov website, but the response posted by 300BHP/Ton suggests that my interpretation may well be the right one!
You are correct in what you sayThe max trailer plated MAM for a vehicle where the GVW is 2505 kgs would be 995 kgs
framerateuk said:
Thanks very much for the fast reply guys, looks like we'll have to do the additional test or find a car with a lower GVW.
The DVLA should really clear this up, it's not complicated to understand but their definition of the rules can be very misleading.
You'd actually consider changing cars over doing the test? :OThe DVLA should really clear this up, it's not complicated to understand but their definition of the rules can be very misleading.
framerateuk said:
The DVLA should really clear this up, it's not complicated to understand but their definition of the rules can be very misleading.
If they used plain English it would help !!That is why I have done many posts like this across the internet - to simplify the rules without changing the legal definitions
If I can do it then why can't the DVLA ?
Adam205 said:
You'd actually consider changing cars over doing the test? :O
When I decided to take my Caterham racing, I bought a tow car with exactly this in mind! The test isn't all that cheap and if you get a light enough trailer (or get a heavier one down-plated) the regs aren't actually that restrictive for a payload as light as a Caterham... you just have to play the game a bit and spend a lot of time on Cafolio, Parkers etc! caterham cars weigh under 600kgs from what I could find on internet
Car transporter trailer 1300 kgs MAM with 960 kgs payload
Typical car for towing might be a Ford Mondeo with a GVW of 2050, a kerb weight of about 1500 and a towing capacity of 1500 kgs
That set up would be legal for B licence towing
Car transporter trailer 1300 kgs MAM with 960 kgs payload
Typical car for towing might be a Ford Mondeo with a GVW of 2050, a kerb weight of about 1500 and a towing capacity of 1500 kgs
That set up would be legal for B licence towing
Is this the right place for a C1E (1980 test) question? Looking at https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories it says...
"Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg"
Is that right? Thinking American motorhome towing a radical on a trailer.
Cheers
Bert
"Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg"
Is that right? Thinking American motorhome towing a radical on a trailer.
Cheers
Bert
BertBert said:
Is this the right place for a C1E (1980 test) question? Looking at https://www.gov.uk/old-driving-licence-categories it says...
"Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg"
Is that right? Thinking American motorhome towing a radical on a trailer.
Cheers
Bert
8250 KG gross train mass if a 'grandfathered' pass - (107) on the back of the photocard , 12000 kg gross train mass is only for C1E by test or if you have C+E"Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver with trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 12,000kg"
Is that right? Thinking American motorhome towing a radical on a trailer.
Cheers
Bert
R0G said:
For those with a full C1+E it is different as the max GTW (not total MAM) is 12000 kgs
Thanks R0G. I have the C1E modified with restriction 107. How does one get a full C1+E? If one drives a motorhome and trailer on a full C1E making use of the larger GTW, does it come with a load of other regs n stuff? Like tachos or sim?ETA the motorhome I was mildly looking at has a GVWR of 6713kg and I think the MAM of my BJ clubman 1200 trailer is 1600kg. Is a little bit over 8250 only slightly illegal?
Bert
Edited by BertBert on Friday 28th June 16:25
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