Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

[mph1977]

how does one get a full C1E - by actually passing the test and meeting all the group 2 standards rather than being sufficiently old enough of a git to have been given it for free

[jagracer]

mph1977 said:

how does one get a full C1E - by actually passing the test and meeting all the group 2 standards rather than being sufficiently old enough of a git to have been given it for free

None of us old gits had it given free and some of us old gits have passed other tests on top of a standard car licence, I reckon there's a lot of the green eyed monster in your post.

[R0G]

BertBert said:

Thanks R0G. I have the C1E modified with restriction 107. How does one get a full C1+E? If one drives a motorhome and trailer on a full C1E making use of the larger GTW, does it come with a load of other regs n stuff? Like tachos or sim?

ETA the motorhome I was mildly looking at has a GVWR of 6713kg and I think the MAM of my BJ clubman 1200 trailer is 1600kg. Is a little bit over 8250 only slightly illegal?

Bert

Get trailer down plated a little by contacting manufacturer to make licence and insurance legal

You have full C1 so you would need to pass the DSA C1+E test but that involves doing the LGV medical. theory tests as well as the practical test

If the vehicle is over 3500 kgs GVW and the total MAM of the combination is over 7500 kgs then it will be under EU driver regs because there is only a derogation for private set ups where the total MAM is not more than 7.5 tonnes

The EU regs specifically state that it covers vehicles over 3.5 tonnes which carry 'goods' so it could be argued that a motorhome does not carry goods but I would email VOSA with that question

[mph1977]

jagracer said:

one of us old gits had it given free and some of us old gits have passed other tests on top of a standard car licence, I reckon there's a lot of the green eyed monster in your post.

as someone who holds a Pre 1997 UK car licence complete with 'grandfather rights' to C1, C1E(107) D1(101) and D1E(101) i'd suggest we did get those categories for 'free' having acquired them from 'just' passing a car test ...

[jagracer]

mph1977 said:

as someone who holds a Pre 1997 UK car licence complete with 'grandfather rights' to C1, C1E(107) D1(101) and D1E(101) i'd suggest we did get those categories for 'free' having acquired them from 'just' passing a car test ...

It was all part of the entitlement of the day and hardly free. If the government and EU had got it's way you'd have lost all those grandfather rights and be restricted to the same post 97 B rules unless you took a test. The rules have changed again for people who pass their test now have a slight advantage over those that passed between 1997 and January this year.

[mph1977]

jagracer said:

mph1977 said:

as someone who holds a Pre 1997 UK car licence complete with 'grandfather rights' to C1, C1E(107) D1(101) and D1E(101) i'd suggest we did get those categories for 'free' having acquired them from 'just' passing a car test ...

It was all part of the entitlement of the day and hardly free. If the government and EU had got it's way you'd have lost all those grandfather rights and be restricted to the same post 97 B rules unless you took a test. The rules have changed again for people who pass their test now have a slight advantage over those that passed between 1997 and January this year.

but do really think it;s either safe or appropriate to pass your test in fiesta one day and jump into a 7.5 tonner with a furniture body the next day or jump into a FFRR towing a 3.5tonne 24 *8 ft exhibition unit ?

[jagracer]

mph1977 said:

but do really think it;s either safe or appropriate to pass your test in fiesta one day and jump into a 7.5 tonner with a furniture body the next day or jump into a FFRR towing a 3.5tonne 24 *8 ft exhibition unit ?

A lot of driving I see nowadays I don't think it's safe to let people jump in anything bigger than an invalid carriage, how some of them pass a test is beyond me and if they pass a test and still drive like a complete nob then what's the difference? From my own point of view I've been driving cars since I was seven years old and trucks, up to 32 ton artics which were the biggest allowed at the time, since I was about twelve so I had plenty of practice long before I got to taking any tests.

[R0G]

jagracer said:

The rules have changed again for people who pass their test now have a slight advantage over those that passed between 1997 and January this year.

How you figure that ?

[MR AMG]

please can somone help me ? i was stopped for towing a jet ski in the off side lane of the motorway 'and still waiting to get my licence back but can't insure my car as i don't know the offence code ! help

[R0G]

MR AMG said:

please can somone help me ? i was stopped for towing a jet ski in the off side lane of the motorway 'and still waiting to get my licence back but can't insure my car as i don't know the offence code ! help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_driving_licence_endorsements
MS60 ?

[jagracer]

MR AMG said:

please can somone help me ? i was stopped for towing a jet ski in the off side lane of the motorway 'and still waiting to get my licence back but can't insure my car as i don't know the offence code ! help

I reckon MW10

[R0G]

LEGAL UPDATE FOR THOSE TOWING ON A B ONLY LICENCE

From 19/01/2013 the kerb weight rule is revoked

That was the rule which stated that the trailer plated MAM could not exceed the kerb or unladen weight of the towing vehicle

This just leaves the 3500 kgs max MAM rule which is that the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kgs

[jagracer]

R0G said:

LEGAL UPDATE FOR THOSE TOWING ON A B ONLY LICENCE

From 19/01/2013 the kerb weight rule is revoked

That was the rule which stated that the trailer plated MAM could not exceed the kerb or unladen weight of the towing vehicle

This just leaves the 3500 kgs max MAM rule which is that the vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kgs

Interesting, where does it say that unless you passed your test after this date?

[R0G]

jagracer said:

Interesting, where does it say that unless you passed your test after this date?

I have a letter in my possession from one of the top bods of the DVLA who replied to my MP on this issue

When I get around to scanning it I will post the letter

The letter confirms that it is the same law for ALL B licence holders no matter when they passed the test which makes sense as giving new drivers greater legal flexibility than older drivers would be a big vote loser and not the way that the law usually works

[jagracer]

You mean the DfT or whoever makes these laws up have had some joined up thinking, I don't believe it.

[R0G]

jagracer said:

You mean the DfT or whoever makes these laws up have had some joined up thinking, I don't believe it.

It was not them - it was the EU parliament - the same now applies across the EU

[sider]

Hi All,

I looked at buying a caravan last year and having passed my test in 1999, was put off by the fact that on top of any towbar, caravan, awning etc costs - would be a few hundred £ to pass my B&E. Assuming i would pass.

However, wife has just been mithering, i mean looking, again, and has sent me a link.

Without reading all 5 pages on here, of what could now be out of date news, am i right to assume that i'm able to tow a caravan - to an extent?

My car is a 2012 VW Passat - kerb weight circa 1500kg.

So, am i right to assume that i can tow a caravan up to 2000kg?

We're looking at a cheapy 3/4 berth starter one which is comfortably under 2000kg.

[Super Slo Mo]

Yes, basically.

Your Passat won't be able to tow a 2,000 kg trailer though, I would guess that its max towing weight is around the 1600 to 1800 kg mark.

Anyway, you really want to be towing a trailer that's lighter than your car, since it's more stable that way and you don't have any towing experience so you will be safer with a heavier car and lighter trailer.

You can achieve this simply by loading the car up with stuff, although caravans are generally fairly light.

[sider]

Super Slo Mo said:

Yes, basically.

Your Passat won't be able to tow a 2,000 kg trailer though, I would guess that its max towing weight is around the 1600 to 1800 kg mark.

Anyway, you really want to be towing a trailer that's lighter than your car, since it's more stable that way and you don't have any towing experience so you will be safer with a heavier car and lighter trailer.

You can achieve this simply by loading the car up with stuff, although caravans are generally fairly light.

Thanks. Roger that on the weights. I hadn't really looked at the weight thing previously - the none materialistic cost of upgrading my licence (i'm glad i didn't throw the £500 down the drain last year) had put me off - albeit i'm aware that a towing lesson or two might be of benefit. I used to work on a farm as a teenager so know the basics as used to shift big trailers in big tractors - that was as a 16 yr old with not really any other driving experience too.

[109er]

R0G said:

Sgt Bilko said:

A question if i may?

I have post 97 license. B cat as basic entitlement.

Last year i completed the D1 training and gained the category. I need to tow a box trailer in the future, is the category for trailers just "+E", or is it linked to the method of propulsion, ie. B+E or D1+E?

Different towing rules apply for D and C category vehicles

Those rules are very simple

Any trailer over 750 kgs MAM requires the driver to have the +E on the licence

That means towing a trailer over 750 with a D1 category vehicle requires the driver to have a D1+E licence

If you wish to get the +E you could pass the D1+E test which would upgrade your B to B+E
BUT BUT BUT
You will lose the B+E if you let the D4 medical for the D1 lapse

You can get it back if you pass a D4 medical at any time

If you pass the B+E test then that will last for life - well, as long as the B licence remains valid

If you think it is unfair that the B+E will be lost if the D4 medical lapses then so do I as the B+E is not a vocational licence and a test has been passed (D1+E) which is harder than B+E
I am in current email contact with the DfT over this because it is a situation they did not consider after the 1997 licence changes

Re the above. I have a cat D1+E with the endorsement 119. This 119 endorsement throws a spanner in the
works as it state 'weight limit does not apply'