Section 59

[StottyZr]

daz3210 said:

Copper - I'm taking your car for a second s59

MoP - No you're not *Floors it and heads for the border*

EFA

[Paul Dishman]

This is such a catch all piece of legislation and gives an individual policeman far too much latitude- acclerating briskly up a hill, overtaking two or three cars at once, having a noisy (but legal) exhaust are all examples of actions that could be said to be likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance and get a S59 imposed.

Wasn't there a case of a Ferrari driver getting a S59 after taking children from a hospice for a joy ride?

[Techn0]

Would it not take a while to issue a significant number of section 59's?

I've known police to take down a large number of number plates at illegal raves in the past. Nothing ever happened though.

As your 'meet' will be largely boy racer types it would be prudent to have all your details to help in prosecuting any mis-behaviour that may occur in the future.

[f1rob]

Know of 1 group of biker,s who were on a legal byway,other riders in another group were "off piste" an were reported as such by a member of the public. Legal riders got to the end of the byway as the officer answered the call from the public an gave the legal riders 59,s on evidence of what the upset mumber of the public had seen !
If he has taken your number an does a 59 it will apply to your car and the registered owner
If they catch you again more than likely take the car off you there and then or they will go to the registered address for the car to sieze it
Thats why its VERY VERY inportant to get one ripped up if it wasnt given correct,dosent matter how stupid and unjust the law is it still has to be issued correctly
Sorry to the BIB on here but many police officers do abuse this law

P.S 59 Applies to the person and the vehicle !

[richie slow]

Scary stuff! Still, at least we know where all that confetti came from in the Hindhead Tunnel

I might even have a S.59 on my vehicle, who knows? [or cares ]

[streaky]

mjb1 said:

StottyZr said:

F1rob that sounds like a good idea. But as mentioned, no slip and I've been told not to expect anything through the post!

Oh great - secret S59's so you don't even know you've been issued with one now? I'm not even sure they can do this - issue with a notice without actually issuing you with anything physical?

FWIW, it happens under other legislation, RIPA and AMLR for example.

Streaky

Edited by streaky on Tuesday 31st January 20:51

[Andyuk911]

I suspect this will work, but will cost you some money.

Buy a cheap reg and transfer it to your car.

I very much doubt the DVLA systems would be able to report the change in reg to the police systems...

It has taken them all years to do anything IT related..

Anybody work for DVLA IT ... shame on you ...

[vonhosen]

Andyuk911 said:

I suspect this will work, but will cost you some money.

Buy a cheap reg and transfer it to your car.

I very much doubt the DVLA systems would be able to report the change in reg to the police systems...

It has taken them all years to do anything IT related..

Anybody work for DVLA IT ... shame on you ...

Wrong, the PNC will show a link to previous VRMs

[GC8]

Andyuk911 said:

I suspect this will work, but will cost you some money.

Buy a cheap reg and transfer it to your car.

I very much doubt the DVLA systems would be able to report the change in reg to the police systems...

It has taken them all years to do anything IT related..

Anybody work for DVLA IT ... shame on you ...

Youre missing the point somewhat. Confiscated cars have to be returned, just as uninsured cars do.

The cost of the recovery and storage wont be much over £150, so even though its an awful piece of legislation which is regularly misused and abused, its implications arent as bad as people seem to think.

[Andyuk911]

vonhosen said:

Andyuk911 said:

I suspect this will work, but will cost you some money.

Buy a cheap reg and transfer it to your car.

I very much doubt the DVLA systems would be able to report the change in reg to the police systems...

It has taken them all years to do anything IT related..

Anybody work for DVLA IT ... shame on you ...

Wrong, the PNC will show a link to previous VRMs

Not saying your are wrong, but my wife's car was returned to the original reg as we were selling the car.

We were stopped and told the car had not had any road Tax since new(which was wrong as it was taxed to be OTR when bought) .. they could NOT determine the car had a private reg.

We had only just taxed it with the original plate and swapped the insurance back to VRN.

So the transfer from the original reg plate to personal plate and back again they had no knowledge of.

We had to tell them the personal plate and bingo that came up, but again NO link to the standard original VRN.

So I think I standby by what I said.

[Andyuk911]

GC8 said:

Andyuk911 said:

I suspect this will work, but will cost you some money.

Buy a cheap reg and transfer it to your car.

I very much doubt the DVLA systems would be able to report the change in reg to the police systems...

It has taken them all years to do anything IT related..

Anybody work for DVLA IT ... shame on you ...

Youre missing the point somewhat. Confiscated cars have to be returned, just as uninsured cars do.

The cost of the recovery and storage wont be much over £150, so even though its an awful piece of legislation which is regularly misused and abused, its implications arent as bad as people seem to think.

My suggestion would avoid a pain, if he returned to such a meet .....

[Cat]

Andyuk911 said:

Not saying your are wrong, but my wife's car was returned to the original reg as we were selling the car.

We were stopped and told the car had not had any road Tax since new(which was wrong as it was taxed to be OTR when bought) .. they could NOT determine the car had a private reg.

We had only just taxed it with the original plate and swapped the insurance back to VRN.

So the transfer from the original reg plate to personal plate and back again they had no knowledge of.

We had to tell them the personal plate and bingo that came up, but again NO link to the standard original VRN.

So I think I standby by what I said.

Not sure what occurred in the case you describe but Von is correct - cherished transfers are recorded on PNC and are linked to the original VRM.

Cat

[Andyuk911]

Cat said:

Andyuk911 said:

Not saying your are wrong, but my wife's car was returned to the original reg as we were selling the car.

We were stopped and told the car had not had any road Tax since new(which was wrong as it was taxed to be OTR when bought) .. they could NOT determine the car had a private reg.

We had only just taxed it with the original plate and swapped the insurance back to VRN.

So the transfer from the original reg plate to personal plate and back again they had no knowledge of.

We had to tell them the personal plate and bingo that came up, but again NO link to the standard original VRN.

So I think I standby by what I said.

Not sure what occurred in the case you describe but Von is correct - cherished transfers are recorded on PNC and are linked to the original VRM.

Cat

Cat, thanks, so if a PC looked up 'new reg' it would show the details of the 'old reg' and S59 OR would the 'new reg' show as S59?

[Cat]

Andyuk911 said:

Cat, thanks, so if a PC looked up 'new reg' it would show the details of the 'old reg' and S59 OR would the 'new reg' show as S59?

Don't know, it's not a circumstance I've come across.

Cat

[nigel_bytes]

StottyZr said:

Durzel said:

Where was the meet? Did they have the approval of whoever owned the premises to stage the meet there?

Generally speaking you're at risk of a S59 if you are in convoy with multiple cars that are deserving of one. Might not be fair, but them's the breaks.

It was on private property and looking back at what happened I'm pretty certain permission was not given!

I take it this isn't out of the ordinary then. Looks like I won't be attending any car meets for the next 12months. I can't really risk loosing my car on a sunday night.

A 250-strong group of car enthusiasts were dispersed by police who say they were unlawfully meeting in a Huddersfield supermarket car park.

But they claim Tesco had allowed them to use the car park in Huddersfield town centre and say police have over-reacted.

Classic car owner Tim Price, 25, claims Huddersfield Tesco’s duty manager had verbally sanctioned previous meetings at the end of last year and had not raised any objections since then.

Mr Price, of Crosland Moor, told the Examiner: “We have always tried to keep ourselves to ourselves and stay off the road – but last Sunday’s meeting was totally different.

“Police blocked the entrance at around 7.30pm and warned us that persons attending would get a section 59.



Read More http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/local-west-yorkshir...

[StottyZr]

The article pretty much sums up what happened.

Around four police dogs were also present (kept in the cages)

Once the police started the 1 by 1 inspection out of the door a few cars were revving and letting the cars backfire (you always get a few nobs)

I watched a policeman run over, pull a Fiesta Zetec S out of the queue and take his keys whilst giving the driver an almighty lecture about revving. I tried to tell the officer a N/A 1.6 Zetec S with a standard exhaust cannot backfire, non-suprisingly he didn't listen

So, looks like my section 59 will be sticking and I can't go to any more car meets. As mentioned in the article, cars with a previous S59 were taken!

[daz3210]

It begs the question, can the Police act on this if it happening on private property unless the property owner makes a complaint?

[aw51 121565]

StottyZr said:

The article pretty much sums up what happened.

Around four police dogs were also present (kept in the cages)

Once the police started the 1 by 1 inspection out of the door a few cars were revving and letting the cars backfire (you always get a few nobs)

I watched a policeman run over, pull a Fiesta Zetec S out of the queue and take his keys whilst giving the driver an almighty lecture about revving. I tried to tell the officer a N/A 1.6 Zetec S with a standard exhaust cannot backfire, non-suprisingly he didn't listen

So, looks like my section 59 will be sticking and I can't go to any more car meets. As mentioned in the article, cars with a previous S59 were taken!

You've got nothing to lose apart from some paper, an envelope, some ink, a stamp and some time - and a lot to gain (removal of your Section 59) You need to write to your local "chief of police" - the chief constable of West Yorkshire, in your case - and appeal.

Politely and succinctly argue why you think you shouldn't have recieved a Section 59 Warning - specifically whether any breaches of law as detailed earlier in the post (you'll have to read through the thread to get the fine details ) were committed personally by you in your car. You are saying that you didn't commit any such offences.

Or your Section 59 will definitely be sticking .

It's a bad piece of law, with no natural justice (recourse to the court) attached to it, and wide open to abuse .


Could be worse though, you might have been the X5 driver in Reading who was given a Section 59 for using an illeagal font on his number plates - on Road Wars .

[saaby93]

Have we confirmed yet that the s59s should have been issued?
There's an and in the s59 legislation - likely to cause annoyance and use in....
Isn't it for people about to spin doughnuts in a busy public car park etc?

http://pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&amp...
parked just in case

[otolith]

I can see why this power was given to the police, but if they can't play nicely with it, it should be taken away while they reflect upon what they have done.