Undertaking on a motorbike
Discussion
The white line post got me thinking about another topic of conversation from my weekend away with my bike mates.
I commute to London on a motorway and regularly undertake to make progress. I use one of two techniques.
1) Single car inappropriate outside lane. Approach allow two seconds for them to get out of the way politely. Move to the inside of the inside lane and nail it. Even if the car makes a sudden swerve to the inside I am long gone. I did this at the weekend and they just sat behind an oblivious Ford Ka for about a mile.
2) Filtering in the middle lane, or riding in the inside lane (this is often free!!). Done gradually and (I guess) 10 to 20 mph faster than outside lane traffic. I will do this up until around 90mph. I keep the differential speed minimal while looking for signs of a lane change. If they change I can either brake or accelarate out.
I have never had a close shave doing this and do not consider this to be dangerous, but do you think this is dangerous? BTW, I do accept that I may/would be stopped if observed doing this.
Interested to hear responses particularly from BiB motorcyclists.
I commute to London on a motorway and regularly undertake to make progress. I use one of two techniques.
1) Single car inappropriate outside lane. Approach allow two seconds for them to get out of the way politely. Move to the inside of the inside lane and nail it. Even if the car makes a sudden swerve to the inside I am long gone. I did this at the weekend and they just sat behind an oblivious Ford Ka for about a mile.
2) Filtering in the middle lane, or riding in the inside lane (this is often free!!). Done gradually and (I guess) 10 to 20 mph faster than outside lane traffic. I will do this up until around 90mph. I keep the differential speed minimal while looking for signs of a lane change. If they change I can either brake or accelarate out.
I have never had a close shave doing this and do not consider this to be dangerous, but do you think this is dangerous? BTW, I do accept that I may/would be stopped if observed doing this.
Interested to hear responses particularly from BiB motorcyclists.
I agree with all you say..ie: there are dangers and you might get pulled for it...
I ride a Honda CBR1100xxBlackbird and find that cars on motorways often move over for me, far more than when I'm driving my private car.
With the undertaking you describe, it's all a case of 'if it all went wrong' you'd be in the wrong...
As for filtering through standing traffic or slow moving traffic, the same applies. Whilst all is well, no probs. The moment you collide with anything, the answer will be 'There are two lanes not three'...or there are 'Three lanes, not four'...
Ride safe mate...and enjoy..
Street
I ride a Honda CBR1100xxBlackbird and find that cars on motorways often move over for me, far more than when I'm driving my private car.
With the undertaking you describe, it's all a case of 'if it all went wrong' you'd be in the wrong...
As for filtering through standing traffic or slow moving traffic, the same applies. Whilst all is well, no probs. The moment you collide with anything, the answer will be 'There are two lanes not three'...or there are 'Three lanes, not four'...
Ride safe mate...and enjoy..
Street
"Move to the inside of the inside lane and nail it."
It's this bit that piss*s off car drivers and makes it dangerous, there are loads of bikers that filter with care and consideration, and most car drivers don't have a problem with it even if it is technically illegal. It's when a biker goes balls out fast that things start to go wrong. Take it easy, don't do it at a speed significantly higher than the other traffic and it seems to work well.
Some of the nutters I see on the A13/M25 that seem to think that just because they can squeeze though the lanes means they can do it at 100mph . . . leave that for an open road, just not worth extracting your knee from the rear wing of a car.
It's this bit that piss*s off car drivers and makes it dangerous, there are loads of bikers that filter with care and consideration, and most car drivers don't have a problem with it even if it is technically illegal. It's when a biker goes balls out fast that things start to go wrong. Take it easy, don't do it at a speed significantly higher than the other traffic and it seems to work well.
Some of the nutters I see on the A13/M25 that seem to think that just because they can squeeze though the lanes means they can do it at 100mph . . . leave that for an open road, just not worth extracting your knee from the rear wing of a car.
P1ssing off car drivers that sit in the outside lane inappropriately is not a consideration of mine when trying to make progress safely!! In fact, if they P1ssing off car drivers that sit in the outside lane inappropriately is not a consideration of mine when trying to make progress safely!! In fact, if they realise the error of there ways by me going up the inside more the better.
The 'nail it' (poor description) could better be described as accelerate hard to so as to spend as little time as possible parallel to the car. This does not necessarily mean braking the speed limit, although I must admit given the right conditions I often do (difficult not to on a modern sports bike as I am sure you know!). Dordling past slowly surely puts you at greater risk with more time in blind spot???
In the 'nail it' situation I am talking about having a lane free to perform the manoeuvre, not filtering.
The 'nail it' (poor description) could better be described as accelerate hard to so as to spend as little time as possible parallel to the car. This does not necessarily mean braking the speed limit, although I must admit given the right conditions I often do (difficult not to on a modern sports bike as I am sure you know!). Dordling past slowly surely puts you at greater risk with more time in blind spot???
In the 'nail it' situation I am talking about having a lane free to perform the manoeuvre, not filtering.
You did say "move to the inside *of the lane* and nail it" . . . if you're in the left hand lane then there's no problem, just remember that the car/van/lorry driver may not be a complete numptie (you've only given them 2 seconds to prove it) so may be about to pull in.
I had a nutter biker do this to me, he tried to overtake me on the outside, I was in lane 3 . . . he tried to squeeze between me and the central reservation, I saw him and the psycho nutter death wish alert lights came on straight away . . . so I moved to the middle lane (had just finished overtaing a lorry) but at the same time psycho suicide boy tried overtaking me on the inside. Some how he manged to achieve it but I doubt he's alive today.
I had a nutter biker do this to me, he tried to overtake me on the outside, I was in lane 3 . . . he tried to squeeze between me and the central reservation, I saw him and the psycho nutter death wish alert lights came on straight away . . . so I moved to the middle lane (had just finished overtaing a lorry) but at the same time psycho suicide boy tried overtaking me on the inside. Some how he manged to achieve it but I doubt he's alive today.
Sorry it is difficult to describe things accurately sometimes.
I said 'Inside of the inside lane' I had a dual carriageway in my head at the time. Hence giving enough room to get past in safety.
With regard to numpties, I don't dispute they are out there, but I like to think I am not one of them!
I said 'Inside of the inside lane' I had a dual carriageway in my head at the time. Hence giving enough room to get past in safety.
With regard to numpties, I don't dispute they are out there, but I like to think I am not one of them!
I am afraid to say in 12 years of motorcycling I have never got around to it. I have been on a couple of observed rides but that is it. I also ride with an ex motorcycle cop who has been good to learn from.
I think your post may be just the prompt I need to get it sorted, kind of been in the back of my mind for a while.
I think your post may be just the prompt I need to get it sorted, kind of been in the back of my mind for a while.
ben_london said:
I am always wary of motorbikes and worry that if one is behind me they will nail it down the inside. I either let them do that or signal that I'm moving in and give it 3 or 4 seconds so they know, then I move in. Is that right? I couldn't live with myself if i ever hit a motorbike.
All sounds ok...
On national speed limit roads and others that aren't dual carraigeway...a slight move to the left allowing a nice gap between car and white lines is lovely and 9/10 bikers will acknowledge your kind action with wave or a
However, don't be tempted to drive into the gutter, like some do, as all this does is send sand and other debris into the face of the biker and his lovely polished machine...
Thanks car drivers...as 95% of the ones I see when I'm riding are spot on...(Either that or I'm experienced enough to deal with them before they become a problem..
Street
mattrsv said:
I commute to London on a motorway and regularly undertake to make progress.
I look out for bikes behind and move over a lane at next opportunity...usually moving back again behind them without losing any time...not sure why other drivers don't...or won't...particularly when it is a car behind and not a bike.
If the traffic is heavier I move to the right of the lane I'm in allowing more room for the bike to pass on the left...and it is nearly always acknowledged by the rider...again...what's the problem with other drivers?
I have however always been a cyclist, stil am, and a one time biker, with a few biker mates still. Remember an argument once in a local rag that every mortorist should experience being a cyclist for a while.
Incidently, I use the term undertaking, and get the piss taken out of me and informed it is a nearside overtake...glad I am not alone
tom audi tt obviously makes good observations and reacts accordingly, well done. A lot of others do so as well. Sadly for a huge number of drivers those shiny bits of glass on their vehicles are a complete mystery world, as yet unexplored.
I have taken my IAM instruction, unfortunately my instructor overtook a car, which was indicating right, and made a new door design and a short wheelbase ST1200 in one easy step. Just goes to show that even with training and experience you can still get it wrong.
I have taken my IAM instruction, unfortunately my instructor overtook a car, which was indicating right, and made a new door design and a short wheelbase ST1200 in one easy step. Just goes to show that even with training and experience you can still get it wrong.
mattrsv said:
Spot on Ben London and Streetcop 100% agree.
BTW I am more of a leather Mr Blobby than Mr Scary
I am more likely to make you laugh in my boddy hugging one piece leathers than frighten you!!
Matt..
What do you 100% agree with me on? Have you taken your IAM motorcycle training/test?
Street
Streetcop, as I said in the white lines thread I am ashamed to say I have not done the IAM. I have had a couple of observed rides and ride with an ex police biker which is useful.
IAM has been in the back of my mind for a while, one of those things I have never got around to. I have this morning emailed my local group (honest, I have). If nothing else our discussions have achieved this.
Cheers Streetcop!
Oh yeah, I was agreeing with your and Ben L on cars moving over and the 95% of car drivers bit.
IAM has been in the back of my mind for a while, one of those things I have never got around to. I have this morning emailed my local group (honest, I have). If nothing else our discussions have achieved this.
Cheers Streetcop!
Oh yeah, I was agreeing with your and Ben L on cars moving over and the 95% of car drivers bit.
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