70 in a 60 on A35??

[jackthelad1984]

Just had a speeding NIP through he post for doing 70mph in a 60mph on the A35 near walditch just after bridport (last friday),just after bridport this road road goes from single lane to two lanes, which i assumed was 70 for dual lanes? Unless i was snapped before it goes to two lanes then fair enough,dont remember seeing any scamera vans along there, only just got a clean license and was hoping to keep it that way for a while!

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Was there a central median? (that's the critical measure, rather than the number of lanes)

[jackthelad1984]

sadly not

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Then the NSL is 60.

[g3org3y]

jackthelad1984 said:

Just had a speeding NIP through he post for doing 70mph in a 60mph on the A35 near walditch just after bridport (last friday),just after bridport this road road goes from single lane to two lanes, which i assumed was 70 for dual lanes? Unless i was snapped before it goes to two lanes then fair enough,dont remember seeing any scamera vans along there, only just got a clean license and was hoping to keep it that way for a while!

Afaik, the idea of 'dual carriageway' is to do with the partition between the lanes rather than the actual number of lanes.

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

Why do people think the term "dual carriageway" has anything whatsoever to do with the number of lanes??

The clue is in the wording: "dual carriageway" means two carriageways, not two lanes.

If the road has has two separate carriageways, i.e. the two traffic flows are separated by some kind of physical divider, then it is a dual carriageway. But if the road has only one stretch of tarmac, such that the opposing directions are separated only by paint markings or surface texture, then it is a single carriageway. A physical divider can be a grass strip, or a crash barrier, or just a raised section of concrete (even if only a few inches); if it's only paint and/or surface texture then it's not a dual carriageway.

The number of lanes is immaterial. A single carriageway road can have multiple lanes, but the NSL would still be 60 for a car. A dual carriageway can have one lane or multiple lanes per direction, and the NSL would be 70 for a car..

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 16th September 08:49

[SimonMaidenhead]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

Why do people think the term "dual carriageway" has anything whatsoever to do with the number of lanes??

The clue is in the wording: "dual carriageway" means two carriageways, not two lanes.

If the road has has two separate carriageways, i.e. the two traffic flows are separated by some kind of physical divider, then it is a dual carriageway. But if the road has only one stretch of tarmac, such that the opposing directions are separated only by paint markings or surface texture, then it is a single carriageway. A physical divider can be a grass strip, or a crash barrier, or just a raised section of concrete (even if only a few inches); if it's only paint and/or surface texture then it's not a dual carriageway.

The number of lanes is immaterial. A single carriageway road can have multiple lanes, but the NSL would still be 60 for a car. A dual carriageway can have one lane or multiple lanes per direction, and the NSL would be 70 for a car..

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 16th September 08:49

WTF are you talking about, I presume people think the word dual means two is because that's exactly what it means as opposed to single or triple. Maybe I'm being thick here, but could you define what the difference between a lane and a carriageway is?

[Benbay001]

SimonMaidenhead said:

WTF are you talking about, I presume people think the word dual means two is because that's exactly what it means as opposed to single or triple. Maybe I'm being thick here, but could you define what the difference between a lane and a carriageway is?

I dont see what the 'wtf?' Is all about? To me his post was clear and factually correct.

[WhereamI]

SimonMaidenhead said:

WTF are you talking about, I presume people think the word dual means two is because that's exactly what it means as opposed to single or triple. Maybe I'm being thick here, but could you define what the difference between a lane and a carriageway is?

A carriageway is a width of road with no barriers to stop you moving laterally across it. Within a carriageway you usually, but not always, have lanes, those lanes may all be for traffic in one direction or or some for one direction and others for the other direction.

So an expanse of road with four lanes, two in one direction and two in the other and no barriers is a single carriageway.

[10 Pence Short]

SimonMaidenhead said:

WTF are you talking about, I presume people think the word dual means two is because that's exactly what it means as opposed to single or triple. Maybe I'm being thick here, but could you define what the difference between a lane and a carriageway is?

An awful lot of people drive with the misapprehension that 'dual carriageway' relates to the number of lanes in any direction, rather than the number of carriageways. Typically, for example, where you have a crawler lane on an A road, where there are two lanes in one direction, then double white lines, and one lane in the opposing direction, some people would believe that to be a dual carriageway and perhaps (wrongly) believe the speed limit was 70mph, rather than 60mph (or lower) as is the case.

That's all the above post was (correctly) pointing out.

[streaky]

SimonMaidenhead said:

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

Why do people think the term "dual carriageway" has anything whatsoever to do with the number of lanes??

The clue is in the wording: "dual carriageway" means two carriageways, not two lanes.

If the road has has two separate carriageways, i.e. the two traffic flows are separated by some kind of physical divider, then it is a dual carriageway. But if the road has only one stretch of tarmac, such that the opposing directions are separated only by paint markings or surface texture, then it is a single carriageway. A physical divider can be a grass strip, or a crash barrier, or just a raised section of concrete (even if only a few inches); if it's only paint and/or surface texture then it's not a dual carriageway.

The number of lanes is immaterial. A single carriageway road can have multiple lanes, but the NSL would still be 60 for a car. A dual carriageway can have one lane or multiple lanes per direction, and the NSL would be 70 for a car..

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 16th September 08:49

WTF are you talking about, I presume people think the word dual means two is because that's exactly what it means as opposed to single or triple. Maybe I'm being thick here, but could you define what the difference between a lane and a carriageway is?

A "carriageway" is a section of highway comprising one or more lanes.

On a "single carriageway" traffic in the lanes can travel in one or two directions.

On a "dual carriageway" traffic travels in one direction on each carriageway.

Both single and dual carriageways can have a different number of lanes in either direction.

Dual carriageways can have different speed limits on each carriageway. A single carriageway can not.

By definition, in the UK, motorways are not "dual carriageways", they are "special roads"; but not all "special roads" are motorways.

Hope this helps you. Perusing the Highway Code would be a good idea, either way [pun intended].

Streaky

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

streaky said:

Dual carriageways can have different speed limits on each carriageway. A single carriageway can not.

I didn't know that - thanks!

[Willy Nilly]

This thread would be much more interesting if the title was 70 in a 60 in an A35

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Willy Nilly said:

This thread would be much more interesting if the title was 70 in a 60 in an A35

That's how I read it first off

[Alucidnation]

If thats the case then there are a lot of mis-signed roads out there.

[WhereamI]

Alucidnation said:

If thats the case then there are a lot of mis-signed roads out there.

Err, no there aren't the whole point is understanding the speed limit when there are no signs to tell you what it is.

[KevinA4quattro]

Alucidnation said:

If thats the case then there are a lot of mis-signed roads out there.

How so?

Single carriage way and dual carriage way roads can both be signed with NSL signs. The NSL means a different thing in each case. They are not incorrectly being marked as '70' or '60'.

[king arthur]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

streaky said:

Dual carriageways can have different speed limits on each carriageway. A single carriageway can not.

I didn't know that - thanks!

It makes sense when you think about it. I came across an example on the A10. Going north out of Cheshunt, I passed the delimiter sign but my sat nav insisted the speed limit was 50 for quite a distance. Coming back, I realised why - the limit IS 50 on the southbound carriageway going towards Cheshunt.

But on a single carriageway, you couldn't really have different limits in each direction, as you could legally turn in the road and not be aware that the limit has changed.

[Johnnytheboy]

A35 near Walditch is just a overtaking lane on a single carriageway, so 60.

[Pontoneer]

Willy Nilly said:

This thread would be much more interesting if the title was 70 in a 60 in an A35

I doubt that an A35 would manage 70 ( other than when being towed )