Carrying a swiss army knife in the car

[Paul Dishman]

Old Fart said:

I've carried a Swiss army knife in my pocket for over 40 years. Where I go it goes.

My brother-in-law was the same until security at Lords took it off him for the day at a Test

[Toltec]

The least they could do is allow an exception for qualified engineers. When it comes to it why not shotgun cert holders too, after all if you are allowed to carry a shotgun why not a knife? What about if you have an enhanced crb?

I do understand the need to control knife crime, but why is there not a simple way for law abiding citizens to carry tools without breaking the law.

Edited by Toltec on Monday 17th September 10:11

[daz3210]

Toltec said:

The least they could do is allow an exception for qualified engineers. When it comes to it why not shotgun cert holders too, after all if you are allowed to carry a shotgun why not a knife? What about if you have an enhanced crb?

I do understand the need to control knife crime, but why is there not a simple way for law abiding citizens to carry tools without breaking the law.

Edited by Toltec on Monday 17th September 10:11

You aren't allowed to carry a shotgun in the manner you suggest. You are allowed to carry any gun that you have lawful right to have in your possession, providing it is covered in a manner such that it may not be fired. It must be unloaded (there is an argument that ammunition in any magazine is the same as loaded, even if the magazine is not in the gun. The carriage is supposed to be for the purpose of taking it to or from a place of legal use (or to/from a dealer). Thus, in essence you are allowed to carry only with reasonable excuse.

Similarly, you are permitted the same privilege with a knife. You can carry one if you have reasonable excuse.

Just in case in either situation is not normally reasonable excuse, although someone like a scouts leader, diver etc may successfully argue the just in case argument

[Utterpiffle]

Dibble said:

The law wrt bladed/pointed articles clearly outlines that you need a reason (work, religion, costume) etc...

A religious reason?
Required in case of sudden fatted pig sacrifice emergency? To cut up a fish to feed a medium sized rural Norfolk Settlement?
What circumstances could there possibly be that a god botherer needs to carry a blade?

[daz3210]

Utterpiffle said:

Dibble said:

The law wrt bladed/pointed articles clearly outlines that you need a reason (work, religion, costume) etc...

A religious reason?
Required in case of sudden fatted pig sacrifice emergency? To cut up a fish to feed a medium sized rural Norfolk Settlement?
What circumstances could there possibly be that a god botherer needs to carry a blade?

AFAIK the Siekh religion 'requires' the carrying of a blade for religious purposes.

Similarly, the Scottish National (male) dress has included in it a small bladed knife.

Strangely, back when the 1997 Firearms Act was being enacted, there was an argument put forward relating to the right to keep and bear arms. I heard it said on more than one occasion that this related to the keeping and bearing of a sword. I wonder what would happen if you walked down Whitehall or somewhere similar with a sword in a sheath attached to your belt. I bet it would be far from welcomed.

[Pothole]

Utterpiffle said:

Dibble said:

The law wrt bladed/pointed articles clearly outlines that you need a reason (work, religion, costume) etc...

A religious reason?
Required in case of sudden fatted pig sacrifice emergency? To cut up a fish to feed a medium sized rural Norfolk Settlement?
What circumstances could there possibly be that a god botherer needs to carry a blade?

Google Sikhism.

OP: surely the question should be, as with any risk, what's the likelihood of you ever being in a position to have to reveal said lethal weapon?

In nearly 30 years of driving and riding motorcycles I have never had my car searched by HM's Finest. What do you do which might prompt same?

[daz3210]

Pothole said:

Utterpiffle said:

Dibble said:

The law wrt bladed/pointed articles clearly outlines that you need a reason (work, religion, costume) etc...

A religious reason?
Required in case of sudden fatted pig sacrifice emergency? To cut up a fish to feed a medium sized rural Norfolk Settlement?
What circumstances could there possibly be that a god botherer needs to carry a blade?

Google Sikhism.

OP: surely the question should be, as with any risk, what's the likelihood of you ever being in a position to have to reveal said lethal weapon?

In nearly 30 years of driving and riding motorcycles I have never had my car searched by HM's Finest. What do you do which might prompt same?

I have been stopped twice (same night) and had my car boot examined. Nothing to do with me, they were hunting an escaped prisoner. I was questioned as to why I had a super bright torch in my boot. The explanation that it was there in case of emergency such as having to change a wheel in the dark was perfectly acceptable to the plod concerned.

Had they found, or seen say a blade or something, I guess they may or may not have been more preoccupied to turn a blind eye.

But you do not always have to have actually done anything to be stopped and asked to open your boot. I guess you could refuse, but what message would that then give?

[Old Fart]

daz3210 said:

You aren't allowed to carry a shotgun in the manner you suggest. You are allowed to carry any gun that you have lawful right to have in your possession, providing it is covered in a manner such that it may not be fired. It must be unloaded (there is an argument that ammunition in any magazine is the same as loaded, even if the magazine is not in the gun. The carriage is supposed to be for the purpose of taking it to or from a place of legal use (or to/from a dealer). Thus, in essence you are allowed to carry only with reasonable excuse.

Where in the Firearms Act does it say that?

[daz3210]

Old Fart said:

Where in the Firearms Act does it say that?

Which bit?

Generally carriage is contained in S.19 of the 1968 Act, but is added to by ACPO Guidelines, which acceptably are not actual law, but will possibly be looked upon as such by a court.

Edited by daz3210 on Monday 17th September 12:10

[Old Fart]

daz3210 said:

Which bit?

All of it.

[daz3210]

Old Fart said:

All of it.

For starters

Firearms Act 1968 said:

19 Carrying firearm in a public place.A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place
[F45(a)a loaded shot gun,
(b)an air weapon (whether loaded or not),
(c)any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or
(d)an imitation firearm.]

[Old Fart]

I travel up and down the country with my gun are you telling me that it's illegal?

[daz3210]

Old Fart said:

I travel up and down the country with my gun are you telling me that it's illegal?

Do you carry it openly, and just for the sake of doing it, or is it in a slip, unloaded and for the purposes of using it when you get there?

[Pothole]

daz3210 said:

Pothole said:

Utterpiffle said:

Dibble said:

The law wrt bladed/pointed articles clearly outlines that you need a reason (work, religion, costume) etc...

A religious reason?
Required in case of sudden fatted pig sacrifice emergency? To cut up a fish to feed a medium sized rural Norfolk Settlement?
What circumstances could there possibly be that a god botherer needs to carry a blade?

Google Sikhism.

OP: surely the question should be, as with any risk, what's the likelihood of you ever being in a position to have to reveal said lethal weapon?

In nearly 30 years of driving and riding motorcycles I have never had my car searched by HM's Finest. What do you do which might prompt same?

I have been stopped twice (same night) and had my car boot examined. Nothing to do with me, they were hunting an escaped prisoner. I was questioned as to why I had a super bright torch in my boot. The explanation that it was there in case of emergency such as having to change a wheel in the dark was perfectly acceptable to the plod concerned.

Had they found, or seen say a blade or something, I guess they may or may not have been more preoccupied to turn a blind eye.

But you do not always have to have actually done anything to be stopped and asked to open your boot. I guess you could refuse, but what message would that then give?

My question was directed at the OP.

In your cases, did the Police look in your spare wheel well? (were they looking for an escaped Lilliputian?)

Also, I would wager that a large majority of us has never had a car search.

From my own POV, I would not feel it worth worrying about, but then I don't generally feel the need to carry an illegal blade in my car.

[Old Fart]

daz3210 said:

Do you carry it openly, and just for the sake of doing it, or is it in a slip, unloaded and for the purposes of using it when you get there?

It's always cased in the boot when I am on my way to a shoot, am I allowed to stop for a drink?

[7db]

SlimJim16v said:

Crazy as it is, in law the inside of your car is a public place

In the Caterham it pretty much is a public place in any definition. Anyone could reach in and take my leatherman. If BiB want it, then they can come and fix my car when I next break down.

[daz3210]

Old Fart said:

It's always cased in the boot when I am on my way to a shoot, am I allowed to stop for a drink?

Read the act and decide.

I have heard it suggested that some forces even try to say that you are not allowed to stop for petrol.

I don't know why you are even arguing, my original post said.....

'If you have the gun in a slip/case, have it unloaded, and are traveling to or from a place of use, you have the defence of reasonable excuse.'

Stopping for refreshments is part of the travel so makes no odds

In the context of the post that prompted my earlier post the suggestion was why is a knife different to a shotgun. My answer was simply it isn't, in both cases you have to have lawful excuse, except a shotgun should be covered and unloaded.

[Old Fart]

daz3210 said:

Read the act and decide.

I have heard it suggested that some forces even try to say that you are not allowed to stop for petrol.

I don't know why you are even arguing, my original post said.....

'If you have the gun in a slip/case, have it unloaded, and are traveling to or from a place of use, you have the defence of reasonable excuse.'

Stopping for refreshments is part of the travel so makes no odds

In the context of the post that prompted my earlier post the suggestion was why is a knife different to a shotgun. My answer was simply it isn't, in both cases you have to have lawful excuse, except a shotgun should be covered and unloaded.

I'm not arguing, I'm slowly getting peed off with all these stupid laws being put in place to stop a minority of idiots when the majority are law abiding citizens, who are being prosecuted for carrying screwdrivers etc: by overzealous police.

Where has common sense gone too?

[beanbag]

I've ordered one of these to keep in my car. Surely this can't count as illegal?

[Pothole]

Old Fart said:

daz3210 said:

Read the act and decide.

I have heard it suggested that some forces even try to say that you are not allowed to stop for petrol.

I don't know why you are even arguing, my original post said.....

'If you have the gun in a slip/case, have it unloaded, and are traveling to or from a place of use, you have the defence of reasonable excuse.'

Stopping for refreshments is part of the travel so makes no odds

In the context of the post that prompted my earlier post the suggestion was why is a knife different to a shotgun. My answer was simply it isn't, in both cases you have to have lawful excuse, except a shotgun should be covered and unloaded.

I'm not arguing, I'm slowly getting peed off with all these stupid laws being put in place to stop a minority of idiots when the majority are law abiding citizens, who are being prosecuted for carrying screwdrivers etc: by overzealous police.

Where has common sense gone too?

Do you have any cites for the above statement? ("all these stupid laws being put in place to stop a minority of idiots when the majority are law abiding citizens, who are being prosecuted for carrying screwdrivers etc: by overzealous police.") i.e. cases where it has actually happened and has resulted in a prosecution? Or are you just getting worked up about media hype?