Police and Crime Commissioner absolute farce.
Discussion
3Dee said:
Frankly, I think Govt should absolutely abandon the idea, as any 'election' is NOT representative for all the reasons previously outlined...should be a press and TV campaign sying so as well! Mind you.. the Beeb might just steer clear of this...for some reason...
...maybe I should do a little website campaign and stand for President of the UK - then wait for one vote (the missus), and pay me/ claim from the Govt coffers a couple of hundred K for salary, then go about sacking the govt et-al!
That's three votes you'll have, assuming you vote for yourself as well....maybe I should do a little website campaign and stand for President of the UK - then wait for one vote (the missus), and pay me/ claim from the Govt coffers a couple of hundred K for salary, then go about sacking the govt et-al!
Streaky
In the local ballot 14.5% turnout, not including spoilt ballots, the Independant (ex-copper) won rounds 1 and 2 and hence elected.
Don't envy you Bill.
The overall message the public has sent to the politicians regardless of whether anyone thinks PCCs are a good, bad or indifferent idea, is "Keep politics out of policing."
Unfortunately not one of our politicians are in Frasier Crane mode, i.e. "I'm listening."
Don't envy you Bill.
The overall message the public has sent to the politicians regardless of whether anyone thinks PCCs are a good, bad or indifferent idea, is "Keep politics out of policing."
Unfortunately not one of our politicians are in Frasier Crane mode, i.e. "I'm listening."
FiF said:
The overall message the public has sent to the politicians regardless of whether anyone thinks PCCs are a good, bad or indifferent idea, is "Keep politics out of policing."
To be fair, there isn't enough evidence to support that finding or otherwise. It could equally be that the public do not understand what (if anything) was wrong with the existing system, or how elected commissioners would solve whatever the issue was.My own gut feeling would be that, considering the lack of information given to the electorate, the lack of perceived problem with how regional police forces have been run and the general apathy towards elected officials in general, that the electorate saw no reason to go out of their way to vote. It is also true that people would find the idea of another layer of political influence a turn off, too.
The timing of the election is stupid, the need or perceived need to act has not been established and people don't see what benefit they will get directly from electing a commissioner. Why would you vote?
10 Pence Short said:
To be fair, there isn't enough evidence to support that finding or otherwise. It could equally be that the public do not understand what (if anything) was wrong with the existing system, or how elected commissioners would solve whatever the issue was.
My own gut feeling would be that, considering the lack of information given to the electorate, the lack of perceived problem with how regional police forces have been run and the general apathy towards elected officials in general, that the electorate saw no reason to go out of their way to vote. It is also true that people would find the idea of another layer of political influence a turn off, too.
The timing of the election is stupid, the need or perceived need to act has not been established and people don't see what benefit they will get directly from electing a commissioner. Why would you vote?
We all show boiled frog syndrome with the police. Well in future if e.g. your bike gets stolen and they say fighting crime isnt part of their job, you now have an effective complaints channel. The PCC and the Chief Constable will be listening.My own gut feeling would be that, considering the lack of information given to the electorate, the lack of perceived problem with how regional police forces have been run and the general apathy towards elected officials in general, that the electorate saw no reason to go out of their way to vote. It is also true that people would find the idea of another layer of political influence a turn off, too.
The timing of the election is stupid, the need or perceived need to act has not been established and people don't see what benefit they will get directly from electing a commissioner. Why would you vote?
I imagine the PCCs will form a group and start to wrest control from the Home Office, ortherwise we will get usual bureacratic pass the parcel that masquerades as government in this country.
SMGB said:
We all show boiled frog syndrome with the police. Well in future if e.g. your bike gets stolen and they say fighting crime isnt part of their job, you now have an effective complaints channel. The PCC and the Chief Constable will be listening.
I imagine the PCCs will form a group and start to wrest control from the Home Office, ortherwise we will get usual bureacratic pass the parcel that masquerades as government in this country.
So you think that there will not be a triage system in the future? I can assure you there will be. If anything it will be extended.I imagine the PCCs will form a group and start to wrest control from the Home Office, ortherwise we will get usual bureacratic pass the parcel that masquerades as government in this country.
SMGB said:
I imagine the PCCs will form a group and start to wrest control from the Home Office ...
A job writing fantasy stories (or party manifestos, or government statistics) beckons.SMGB said:
... ortherwise we will get usual bureacratic pass the parcel that masquerades as government in this country.
There's no "otherwise" about it, that will happen ... it's in the nature of governments everywhere.Streaky
The results by party:
The new PCCs, their political affiliation (if any), the turnouts and percentage of electoral population that elected the PCC, by force area:
Now you know.
Streaky
| Labour | 13 |
| Conservative | 16 |
| Liberal Democrat | 0 |
| Independent | 12 |
The new PCCs, their political affiliation (if any), the turnouts and percentage of electoral population that elected the PCC, by force area:
| Police Force | % Turnout | Winning Candidate | % of Electorate |
|---|---|---|---|
| Avon & Somerset | 18.7% | Sue Mountstevens - IND | 6.72% |
| Bedfordshire | 17.7% | Olly Martins - LAB | 6.04% |
| Cambridgeshire | 14.7% | Graham Bright - CON | 3.95% |
| Cheshire | 13.7% | John Dwyer - CON | 5.06% |
| Cleveland | 14.7% | Barry Coppinger - LAB | 5.88% |
| Cumbria | 15.6% | Richard Rhodes - CON | 4.53% |
| Derbyshire | 14.3% | Alan Charles - LAB | 6.35% |
| Devon & Cornwall | 14.9% | Tony Hogg - CON | 4.24% |
| Dorset | 16.3% | Martyn Underhill - IND | 7.38% |
| Durham | 14.4% | Ron Hogg - LAB | 7.4% |
| Dyfed-Powys | 16.4% | Christopher Salmon - CON | 8.3% |
| Essex | 12.8% | Nick Aston - CON | 3.97% |
| Gloucestershire | 15.9% | Martin Surl - IND | 5.62% |
| Greater Manchester | 13.6% | Tony Lloyd - LAB | 6.96% |
| Gwent | 14% | Ian Johnston - IND | 5.53% |
| Hampshire | 14.5% | Simon Hayes - IND | 3.26% |
| Hertfordshire | 14.1% | David Lloyd - CON | 6.47% |
| Humberside | 19.1% | Mathew Grove - CON | 4.21% |
| Kent | 16% | Ann Barnes - IND | 7.48% |
| Lancashire | 15% | Clive Grunshaw - LAB | 5.89% |
| Leicestershire | 15.9% | Clive Loader - CON | 7.71% |
| Lincolnshire | 15.3% | Alan Hardwick - IND | 4.79% |
| Merseyside | 12.4% | Jane Kennedy - LAB | 6.97% |
| Norfolk | 14.5% | Stephen Bett - IND | 3.93% |
| North Wales | 14.8% | Winston Roddick - IND | 4.90% |
| North Yorkshire | 13.2% | Julia Mulligan - CON | 7.71% |
| Northamptonshire | 19.5% | Adam Simmonds - CON | 5.86% |
| Northumbria | 16.4% | Vera Baird - LAB | 9.21% |
| Nottinghamshire | 16.4% | Paddy Tipping - LAB | 7.07% |
| South Wales | 14.7% | Alun Michael - LAB | 6.89% |
| South Yorkshire | 14.5% | Shaun - Wright - LAB | 7.46% |
| Staffordshire | 11.6% | Matthew Ellis - CON | 6.03% |
| Suffolk | 15.4% | Tim Passmore - CON | 5.39% |
| Surrey | 15.4% | Kevin Hurley - Other | 4.01% |
| Sussex | 15.3% | Katy Bourne - CON | 4.83% |
| Thames Valley | 12.8% | Anthony Stansfeld - CON | 4.69% |
| Warwickshire | 15.2% | Ron Ball - IND | 5.07% |
| West Mercia | 14.5% | Bill Longmore - IND | 5.49% |
| West Midlands | 11.9% | Bob Jones - LAB | 5.02% |
| West Yorkshire | 13.3% | Mark Burns Williamson - LAB | 6.38% |
| Wiltshire | 15.3% | Angus MacPherson - CON | 6.8% |
Now you know.
Streaky
streaky said:
SMGB said:
I imagine the PCCs will form a group and start to wrest control from the Home Office ...
A job writing fantasy stories (or party manifestos, or government statistics) beckons.SMGB said:
... ortherwise we will get usual bureacratic pass the parcel that masquerades as government in this country.
There's no "otherwise" about it, that will happen ... it's in the nature of governments everywhere.Streaky
This needs leadership, and local leadership with a mandate would be ideal. Only a fool would expect this to magically produce all the resources needed, but some local intelligence and authorty telling the Whitehall Warriors to shove their box ticking where 98.9% of of the population per the most recent census want it shoved is a starting point. Less prison more secure homes for the mentally ill, better links with the CPS, that split regretably forced by some scandals when it was all in house. How about admitting the "War on Drugs" has worked as well as Prohibition did in the USA?
I'm sure the first batch of PCCs will be a mixed lot, but some will sink and some swim and maybe it will work if its given a chance. If not, its reversible. I wouldnt step up to the plate myself, you wouldnt be able to get "tired and emotional" without being splashed all over the local rag
Haven't read all the posts so might have been said already...
It was pointed out on the news last night that the public didn't ask nor want this and that it has cost £100M
That amount would pay for 3000 officers - which surely would do more to solve crime than the commissioners will.
I didn't vote as "I think this is a stupid idea" wasn't an option on the form and I think that over 50% of us felt that way (apathy accounting for the balance)
It was pointed out on the news last night that the public didn't ask nor want this and that it has cost £100M
That amount would pay for 3000 officers - which surely would do more to solve crime than the commissioners will.
I didn't vote as "I think this is a stupid idea" wasn't an option on the form and I think that over 50% of us felt that way (apathy accounting for the balance)
GadgeS3C said:
How the hell did this cost £100m?
Just baffled where that's gone. Or is it another one of these made up figures with all kinds of wild assumptions - anyone know?
IIRC that was the figure mentioned by a Labour MPJust baffled where that's gone. Or is it another one of these made up figures with all kinds of wild assumptions - anyone know?
But the same way as all Gov't projects cost a fortune - they are all incompetent and it isn't their money - It's amazing how much you can spent on surveys, consultants and advertising.
Plus to hire all the venues and the staff to count the non existent votes
SMGB said:
streaky said:
SMGB said:
I imagine the PCCs will form a group and start to wrest control from the Home Office ...
A job writing fantasy stories (or party manifestos, or government statistics) beckons.SMGB said:
... ortherwise we will get usual bureacratic pass the parcel that masquerades as government in this country.
There's no "otherwise" about it, that will happen ... it's in the nature of governments everywhere.Streaky
This needs leadership, and local leadership with a mandate would be ideal. Only a fool would expect this to magically produce all the resources needed, but some local intelligence and authorty telling the Whitehall Warriors to shove their box ticking where 98.9% of of the population per the most recent census want it shoved is a starting point. Less prison more secure homes for the mentally ill, better links with the CPS, that split regretably forced by some scandals when it was all in house. How about admitting the "War on Drugs" has worked as well as Prohibition did in the USA?
I'm sure the first batch of PCCs will be a mixed lot, but some will sink and some swim and maybe it will work if its given a chance. If not, its reversible. I wouldnt step up to the plate myself, you wouldnt be able to get "tired and emotional" without being splashed all over the local rag
Streaky
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