EU Gender Directive

[Zeeky]

996c2 said:

My car insurance expires a week before the 21/12/12. If I don't use my car for a week, is it likely that I (as a man) will get cheaper car insurance after the 21st?

You have 14 days to cancel the policy. Why not take the best offer prior to 21st then get dome more quotes after?

[Noger]

Zeeky said:

996c2 said:

My car insurance expires a week before the 21/12/12. If I don't use my car for a week, is it likely that I (as a man) will get cheaper car insurance after the 21st?

You have 14 days to cancel the policy. Why not take the best offer prior to 21st then get dome more quotes after?

Rates have already started to harmonise, so there isn't a big spike. You may find that they closer you get 21/12 the less of an effect your gender has.

Let's show those bhes that we men won't be downtrodden with their chauvinistic attitudes to how badly we drive. I, for one, have been burning my string backed driving gloves at every opportunity.

[Hugo a Gogo]

mrmr96 said:

BertBert said:

mrmr96 said:

But can you explain why do you think that pricing on any non controllable feature of a person is ok, but ethnicity is not?

Did I say that?

No, I was assuming that you would and trying to speed the conversation up.

Are you saying that you WOULD support pricing on ethnicity too?

tell me how you would define 'ethnicity'?

short of doing in-depth DNA studies, which would give you a percentage likelihood of some of your ancestors being from a certain area, you're relying on self-declaration of 'race' - or maybe just a colour chart from Dulux

race doesn't exist in any definable way

[Noger]

Hugo a Gogo said:

race doesn't exist in any definable way

Nor does gender. Females don't have to be genetic females to have a female birth certificate.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Noger said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

race doesn't exist in any definable way

Nor does gender. Females don't have to be genetic females to have a female birth certificate.

there is no legal third gender in the UK, everyone has a gender status of male or female

[Noger]

Hugo a Gogo said:

Noger said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

race doesn't exist in any definable way

Nor does gender. Females don't have to be genetic females to have a female birth certificate.

there is no legal third gender in the UK, everyone has a gender status of male or female

Nope. You can be simultaneously male and female for legal purposes. i.e. you can have both birth certificates.

There are limited occasions when you are allowed to ask about this, such as "You know I love you Tracey, but before we get married...I have been wondering where your brick laying skills come from".

[Hugo a Gogo]

seeing as how we're talking about driving, your gender is on your driving licence

you can change it, but you have to have one or the other

[Noger]

Gender isn't on your Driving Licence. But you can work it out.

You don't need to have applied for gender reassignment to change your name on your DL.

We were in fact talking about Insurance. If they ask you your sex, they have no right to ask your birth sex.

[daz3210]

Hugo a Gogo said:

tell me how you would define 'ethnicity'?

short of doing in-depth DNA studies, which would give you a percentage likelihood of some of your ancestors being from a certain area, you're relying on self-declaration of 'race' - or maybe just a colour chart from Dulux

race doesn't exist in any definable way

It could be worth you reading this http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/familyhistory/next_st...

When you get down to the mtDNA bit it suggests that everyone relates back to around 7 individuals, and 95% of Europeans actually can be traced back to Africa.

[Trif]

Noger said:

Gender isn't on your Driving Licence. But you can work it out.

You don't need to have applied for gender reassignment to change your name on your DL.

We were in fact talking about Insurance. If they ask you your sex, they have no right to ask your birth sex.

Hang on, are you saying I've been voluntarily paying higher premiums all these years because I chose to select male instead of female on my insurance form?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Today I was talking to someone high up in motor insurance. I won't name the company.

He says that since the gender ruling came in, they've been doing extensive modelling of the existing stats to identify "girlie" cars. They already have girlie occupations.

They can't discriminate between the sexes, but they can rate that pink Micra lower than a black or blue one. Fiat 500 Pop too. And the Mini One. The can give discounts for beauticians, nail technicians, midwives etc. He seems confident that they can still give discounts to females without breaking the law.

So, if you're a 17 y/o lad, get a pink Micra and a job in a tanning salon! You could save a fortune.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Noger said:

Gender isn't on your Driving Licence. But you can work it out.

You don't need to have applied for gender reassignment to change your name on your DL.

We were in fact talking about Insurance. If they ask you your sex, they have no right to ask your birth sex.

the 'code' is on there in your driver number

point is you have to have one or the other, it's nothing lke as spurious and subjective as 'race' or 'ethnicity'

[otolith]

They're going to have to be careful if they set out indirectly to discriminate.

[Zeeky]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

...They can't discriminate between the sexes, but they can rate that pink Micra lower than a black or blue one. Fiat 500 Pop too. And the Mini One. The can give discounts for beauticians, nail technicians, midwives etc. He seems confident that they can still give discounts to females without breaking the law.

Higher or lower premiums that are based on a criterion that has a disproportionate effect on one sex as compared to another is indirect discrimination. Unlike direct discrimination, this can be 'objectively justified' and the insurer would do so with actuarial evidence.

If the evidence is not there neither is the justification.

[Noger]

^ Yes.

My previous example was Builders. Most builders are men, but if you can show that as a "profession" they are a higher risk, you can rate on that.

Nail technicians are unlikely to have an higher risk, due to their job, than any other retail position Therefore likely to be indirect.