supercar hire company sold me a broken car, what to do?
Discussion
Hello all,
Looking for a bit of advice regarding a Volvo C30 I bought from a well known supercar hire company in London. They said they took the car in part-ex on a Porsche and had other cars for sale on autotrader, pistonheads, etc. So I assume this means they are classed as a dealer? They certainly had a dealer account on ebay and autotrader!
2 days after taking the car it suddenly had a 'brake failure - stop safely' message on the dash and at that point the engine cuts out and I have to glide to a stop. The car will then not restart immediately but after 10 mins it will, and everything will be fine again for a few more days, then repeat.
I took it for diagnostics today and there are pages and pages of errors, including something saying the mileage has been tampered with. All in all it looks like a rather expensive fix (ABC ECU, BCM, wiring - they don't really know without further investigation at £110 per hour!)
I contacted the company 2 days after buying it when the error first appeared and their initial response was 'not interested, it was a trade sale'. I certainly wasn't told it was a trade sale, and on my receipt it has a section saying please tick here if this is a trade sale with no warranty given or implied. It hasn't been ticked. After kicking up a fuss they suggested I get it plugged in and we will take it from there, suggesting that they will give me some money back, however since sending them a copy of the diagnostics scan they are going back to their original response 'trade sale, not interested'.
What can I do now?
Get the car fixed and chase them for the costs through small claims? Not really an ideal solution because it could mean I have to spend a lot of money to get it fixed in the first place, money I can't really spare at the moment.
'Reject' the car and get my money back? I have already mentioned this and they said the best they would do is buy the car back from me for 25% less than what I paid for it 3 weeks ago...
Really not happy and need advice on next steps to take please
Looking for a bit of advice regarding a Volvo C30 I bought from a well known supercar hire company in London. They said they took the car in part-ex on a Porsche and had other cars for sale on autotrader, pistonheads, etc. So I assume this means they are classed as a dealer? They certainly had a dealer account on ebay and autotrader!
2 days after taking the car it suddenly had a 'brake failure - stop safely' message on the dash and at that point the engine cuts out and I have to glide to a stop. The car will then not restart immediately but after 10 mins it will, and everything will be fine again for a few more days, then repeat.
I took it for diagnostics today and there are pages and pages of errors, including something saying the mileage has been tampered with. All in all it looks like a rather expensive fix (ABC ECU, BCM, wiring - they don't really know without further investigation at £110 per hour!)
I contacted the company 2 days after buying it when the error first appeared and their initial response was 'not interested, it was a trade sale'. I certainly wasn't told it was a trade sale, and on my receipt it has a section saying please tick here if this is a trade sale with no warranty given or implied. It hasn't been ticked. After kicking up a fuss they suggested I get it plugged in and we will take it from there, suggesting that they will give me some money back, however since sending them a copy of the diagnostics scan they are going back to their original response 'trade sale, not interested'.
What can I do now?
Get the car fixed and chase them for the costs through small claims? Not really an ideal solution because it could mean I have to spend a lot of money to get it fixed in the first place, money I can't really spare at the moment.
'Reject' the car and get my money back? I have already mentioned this and they said the best they would do is buy the car back from me for 25% less than what I paid for it 3 weeks ago...
Really not happy and need advice on next steps to take please
Are in the trade?
I'm guessing not so their attitude of 'trade sale' doesn't apply. You can't sell a car as a trade sale to a member of the public.
The fact that they are using paperwork that allows for them to tick that option also implies that they are, indeed, classified as a trader.
I'm guessing not so their attitude of 'trade sale' doesn't apply. You can't sell a car as a trade sale to a member of the public.
The fact that they are using paperwork that allows for them to tick that option also implies that they are, indeed, classified as a trader.
Not a lawyer. 
I think that 'Trade Sale' does not mean that it's in the trade as it were.
It means that it's a private sale but done by a company (trader) not an individual.
The companies business is hiring out sportscars.
They are not car dealers.
If they happen to sell the occasional car as part if their business then they aren't car dealers.
It would be like a builders selling off old transit vans.
Now, if they have trade accounts and stuff one could argue they are dealers and should be covered by soga.
Then again the dealer and the hire companies could be different legal entities under the same umbrella.
In summary...
You need to show/prove they are a car dealer or they need to prove they aren't.
I think that 'Trade Sale' does not mean that it's in the trade as it were.
It means that it's a private sale but done by a company (trader) not an individual.
The companies business is hiring out sportscars.
They are not car dealers.
If they happen to sell the occasional car as part if their business then they aren't car dealers.
It would be like a builders selling off old transit vans.
Now, if they have trade accounts and stuff one could argue they are dealers and should be covered by soga.
Then again the dealer and the hire companies could be different legal entities under the same umbrella.
In summary...
You need to show/prove they are a car dealer or they need to prove they aren't.
Does the fact that they have cars for sale under a trader account not prove that? They also have headed sales invoices, and offer finance and warranty, part-exchange, etc. Surely all of this wouldn't be set up for just the occasional sale? They are actively selling cars still, as well as operating as a supercar hire company
mrmr96 said:
Snowboy said:
The companies business is hiring out sportscars.
They are not car dealers.
How do you know that? We don't even have a company name yet.They are not car dealers.
Had you quoted/read my whole comment that would be clear.
The whole argument is based around determining if they are a dealer is a hire company with regards to this sale.
Selective quoting rarely helps a discussion
(although I do expect it to be used for comedy effect soon)
dazm said:
Not sure I'm allowed to mention names on here...
If you look for the cheapest Aston on autotrader they're always on the first page hiring one of theirs.
Trading name is '* * Supercars'
The company number listed on their website is dissolved. Check the company on your invoice.. If you look for the cheapest Aston on autotrader they're always on the first page hiring one of theirs.
Trading name is '* * Supercars'
User33678888 said:
dazm said:
Not sure I'm allowed to mention names on here...
If you look for the cheapest Aston on autotrader they're always on the first page hiring one of theirs.
Trading name is '* * Supercars'
The company number listed on their website is dissolved. Check the company on your invoice.. If you look for the cheapest Aston on autotrader they're always on the first page hiring one of theirs.
Trading name is '* * Supercars'
P B S C are also initials used on the invoice... It doesn't give a ltd company name but I can only assume it is the same as their trading name.
From their emails they aren't trying to get out of it because they're not dealers. It's obvious that they are. Their excuse is that it is a trade sale and therefore I am not entitled to anything. From what I have read this simply isn't true even if it was a trade sale, but what can I do about it to get the car fixed?
From their emails they aren't trying to get out of it because they're not dealers. It's obvious that they are. Their excuse is that it is a trade sale and therefore I am not entitled to anything. From what I have read this simply isn't true even if it was a trade sale, but what can I do about it to get the car fixed?
Difficult one.
Under the SOGA, a company has an obligation to provide goods 'fit for purpose'
With a car this is very, very subjective and depends on the car, how much you paid for it, it's value, age, mileage, etc.
Being as a company has sold you an item, I presume although am by no means a lawyer, that the SOGA still applies even though they're a car hire business and not a car dealer.
However, I would suggest talking to your local CAB and not getting conflicting opinions on the internet from others who aren't lawyers!
Under the SOGA, a company has an obligation to provide goods 'fit for purpose'
With a car this is very, very subjective and depends on the car, how much you paid for it, it's value, age, mileage, etc.
Being as a company has sold you an item, I presume although am by no means a lawyer, that the SOGA still applies even though they're a car hire business and not a car dealer.
However, I would suggest talking to your local CAB and not getting conflicting opinions on the internet from others who aren't lawyers!
dazm said:
P B S C are also initials used on the invoice... It doesn't give a ltd company name but I can only assume it is the same as their trading name.
From their emails they aren't trying to get out of it because they're not dealers. It's obvious that they are. Their excuse is that it is a trade sale and therefore I am not entitled to anything. From what I have read this simply isn't true even if it was a trade sale, but what can I do about it to get the car fixed?
PBSC Limited is a computer software firm. Pbsc Hire Ltd (the company number listed on their contact page) has been disolved.From their emails they aren't trying to get out of it because they're not dealers. It's obvious that they are. Their excuse is that it is a trade sale and therefore I am not entitled to anything. From what I have read this simply isn't true even if it was a trade sale, but what can I do about it to get the car fixed?
Pb Supercars Ltd is the company number listed on their hire terms on the website. It seems to have a book value of minus £168,553 on their last filed accounts, which seem a little old.
You need to find out who you have bought the car from to know who to chase.
Or, you could turn up with a copy of the receipt, a copy of the diagnostics printout and ask them, face to face, what they intend to do to fix it. Being in front of them often helps to focus the mind.
Next step is to get CAB advice, but that'll probably end up in the Small Claims Court.
Next step is to get CAB advice, but that'll probably end up in the Small Claims Court.
dazm said:
Does the fact that they have cars for sale under a trader account not prove that? They also have headed sales invoices, and offer finance and warranty, part-exchange, etc. Surely all of this wouldn't be set up for just the occasional sale? They are actively selling cars still, as well as operating as a supercar hire company
This. They are operating as traders then.
Contact trading standards.
User33678888 said:
PBSC Limited is a computer software firm. Pbsc Hire Ltd (the company number listed on their contact page) has been disolved.
Pb Supercars Ltd is the company number listed on their hire terms on the website. It seems to have a book value of minus £168,553 on their last filed accounts, which seem a little old.
You need to find out who you have bought the car from to know who to chase.
Sounds dodgy to me!Pb Supercars Ltd is the company number listed on their hire terms on the website. It seems to have a book value of minus £168,553 on their last filed accounts, which seem a little old.
You need to find out who you have bought the car from to know who to chase.
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