Speed Cameras - Severn Bridge
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3714770.stm
Speed cameras slow bridge traffic
Mobile speed cameras are being used to slow motorists using the Second Severn Crossing after a series of high-speed accidents in recent years. It is hoped that the cameras, fitted inside special vans, will encourage traffic approaching the toll booths on the westbound carriageway to slow.
The introduction of the cameras follows a 50mph speed limit imposed by the Welsh Assembly Government.
In the last three years, there have been 13 collisions at the toll booth.
These collisions have resulted in people being injured and included top speeds of more than 120mph on the approach.
In August, the assembly introduced a lower speed limit on the bridge, which opened in 1996 to ease the pressure on the original crossing.
Health and safety officials at the toll booths had complained about the high numbers of speeding vehicles, and the vans will park on a flyover above the approach to the bridge.
"The majority of accidents have occurred because motorists fail to slow down on the approach to the toll booth and then collide with stationery vehicles, injuring innocent, law-abiding motorists," said John Rowling, manager of the Safety Camera Partnership which is responsible for camera enforcement in the Dyfed-Powys, South Wales and Gwent Police force areas.
"Officials at the toll booth have also expressed concerns for the safety of workers because of the speeds driven," he added.
Superintendent Nigel Russell, head of roads policing for Gwent Police, said: "We have been working closely with the Highways Agency and Welsh Assembly Government to ensure that the reduced speed limit and enforcement are clearly signed to give motorists adequate opportunities to reduce their speed.
"Mobile camera enforcement of the 50mph speed limit will be undertaken and the enforcement vehicle will be clearly visible.
"Motorists are asked to comply with the new limit which has been introduced for the safety of personnel working at the tolls and other road users," he added.
Speed cameras slow bridge traffic
Mobile speed cameras are being used to slow motorists using the Second Severn Crossing after a series of high-speed accidents in recent years. It is hoped that the cameras, fitted inside special vans, will encourage traffic approaching the toll booths on the westbound carriageway to slow.
The introduction of the cameras follows a 50mph speed limit imposed by the Welsh Assembly Government.
In the last three years, there have been 13 collisions at the toll booth.
These collisions have resulted in people being injured and included top speeds of more than 120mph on the approach.
In August, the assembly introduced a lower speed limit on the bridge, which opened in 1996 to ease the pressure on the original crossing.
Health and safety officials at the toll booths had complained about the high numbers of speeding vehicles, and the vans will park on a flyover above the approach to the bridge.
"The majority of accidents have occurred because motorists fail to slow down on the approach to the toll booth and then collide with stationery vehicles, injuring innocent, law-abiding motorists," said John Rowling, manager of the Safety Camera Partnership which is responsible for camera enforcement in the Dyfed-Powys, South Wales and Gwent Police force areas.
"Officials at the toll booth have also expressed concerns for the safety of workers because of the speeds driven," he added.
Superintendent Nigel Russell, head of roads policing for Gwent Police, said: "We have been working closely with the Highways Agency and Welsh Assembly Government to ensure that the reduced speed limit and enforcement are clearly signed to give motorists adequate opportunities to reduce their speed.
"Mobile camera enforcement of the 50mph speed limit will be undertaken and the enforcement vehicle will be clearly visible.
"Motorists are asked to comply with the new limit which has been introduced for the safety of personnel working at the tolls and other road users," he added.
Anyone who can't brake from 120 when they approach traffic waiting for the toll booths should be taken off the road. The problem is not those doing the 120 it is those day dreaming scunthorpes that can't stop.
As for a 50mph zone the mind boggles, there again all becomes clear......... Kerchinggggggg!
DAZ
As for a 50mph zone the mind boggles, there again all becomes clear......... Kerchinggggggg!
DAZ
120 MPH on a toll bridge!!!!
I find that almost impossible to believe; but if it's true the problem isn't speeding, it's very, very dangerous driving, why can't the authorities see the distinction. It only manifests itself in speeding on that particular occasion.
Anyone who will attempt those kind of speeds over a toll bridge has a serious problem with his/her grasp on the realities of driving concepts; it is illusory to believe that a speed camera will solve the problem.
This kind of driver will just do something else in another manner and location.
I find that almost impossible to believe; but if it's true the problem isn't speeding, it's very, very dangerous driving, why can't the authorities see the distinction. It only manifests itself in speeding on that particular occasion.
Anyone who will attempt those kind of speeds over a toll bridge has a serious problem with his/her grasp on the realities of driving concepts; it is illusory to believe that a speed camera will solve the problem.
This kind of driver will just do something else in another manner and location.
IOLAIRE said:
120 MPH on a toll bridge!!!!
Yes - a 6 lane beautifully surfaced tollbridge with wind deflectors installed and, as Daz points out, a very long run-off before you get to the booths.
Personally, I think it must have been designed to catch people out; you get across the obvious "bridge" part and then relax back into "normal motorway" mode before waking up when you see a queue of stationary traffic ahead! Perhaps putting the booths closer ot the bridge would have been a "better" solution, but that wouldn't generate any extra revenue on top of the crossing fee
IOLAIRE said:
120 MPH on a toll bridge!!!!
.......................Anyone who will attempt those kind of speeds over a toll bridge has a serious problem with his/her grasp on the realities of driving concepts; it is illusory to believe that a speed camera will solve the problem.
This kind of driver will just do something else in another manner and location.
Agreed 100% IOLIARE.
That kind of speed on a toll bridge beggars belief!!
I always try to weigh up what can be gained, by what can be lost when considering a maneauvere, including speeding. This is especially relevant on a bike!!In this instance, what time can be gained by travelling over a short bridge at 120mph. Answer not a lot. What can be lost if it all goes wrong at that speed. Answer: a bloody lot. In this instance I probably agree with scams, although Trafpols doing people for dangerous driving would be more appropriate.
Just to reinforce the point, the "new" Severn crossing only has tolls on entry into Wales.
Approaching from the English side, the motorway simply continues over the water uninterrupted.
This was a specific design consideration and backed up by the decision to install wind deflectors so as not to hold up the traffic and cause closures in high winds (as with the "old" crossing).
I totally agree that 120mph approaching a stationary queue is silly, but in this case, the fact that its a bridge is simply not relevant.
{edited to add:} As there are no tolls at all on entry into England or leaving Wales, other than scameras there's no need to change your driving style at all when crossing in that direction.
>> Edited by pdV6 on Tuesday 5th October 14:04
Approaching from the English side, the motorway simply continues over the water uninterrupted.
This was a specific design consideration and backed up by the decision to install wind deflectors so as not to hold up the traffic and cause closures in high winds (as with the "old" crossing).
I totally agree that 120mph approaching a stationary queue is silly, but in this case, the fact that its a bridge is simply not relevant.
{edited to add:} As there are no tolls at all on entry into England or leaving Wales, other than scameras there's no need to change your driving style at all when crossing in that direction.
>> Edited by pdV6 on Tuesday 5th October 14:04
pdV6 said:
Just to reinforce the point, the "new" Severn crossing only has tolls on entry into Wales.
Approaching from the English side, the motorway simply continues over the water uninterrupted.
This was a specific design consideration and backed up by the decision to install wind deflectors so as not to hold up the traffic and cause closures in high winds (as with the "old" crossing).
I totally agree that 120mph approaching a stationary queue is silly, but in this case, the fact that its a bridge is simply not relevant.
{edited to add:} As there are no tolls at all on entry into England or leaving Wales, other than scameras there's no need to change your driving style at all when crossing in that direction.
>> Edited by pdV6 on Tuesday 5th October 14:04
I am aware that it's not just a bridge; it's the fact that it has toll booths, in other words something in the middle of the road that you have to come to a dead stop for, that is the whole issue here.
I have never been on this bridge and I appreciate that it may be beautifully engineered and therefore very fast; I also think it outrageous that we have tolls anywhere given the level of our road tax contribution.
The point that I believe is relevant here is that all drivers must consider all hazards, whether they be booths, pot holes, slow moving vehicles or whatever.
The overall consideration of these factors makes for good, safe driving.
What most definitely doesn't make the slightest difference is a remote device that detects speed; the best possible result from that is a damage limitation exercise; treating the symptoms instead of the disease.
pdV6 said:Can I assume that there have been relatively few (or no) accidents on the side where there are no toll booths? Given this info:
Just to reinforce the point, the "new" Severn crossing only has tolls on entry into Wales.
Approaching from the English side, the motorway simply continues over the water uninterrupted.
the correlation between speed and the accident rate, AND
the correlation between placement of toll booths and the accident rate,
would become very clear!
IOLAIRE said:
The point that I believe is relevant here is that all drivers must consider all hazards, whether they be booths, pot holes, slow moving vehicles or whatever.
The overall consideration of these factors makes for good, safe driving.
What most definitely doesn't make the slightest difference is a remote device that detects speed; the best possible result from that is a damage limitation exercise; treating the symptoms instead of the disease.
Spot on.
I believe that the siting of the booths so far into Wales and the fact that they're in one direction only are very important psychological factors
1. You cross the "bridge" (water below you is a constant reminder!) but then you're back to "normal" and switch off.
and
2. Don't remember seeing the booths; oh well, must be the direction where there aren't any...
supraman2954 said:
Just to reinforce the point, the "new" Severn crossing only has tolls on entry into Wales.
Approaching from the English side, the motorway simply continues over the water uninterrupted.
Can I assume that there have been relatively few (or no) accidents on the side where there are no toll booths? Given this info:
the correlation between speed and the accident rate, AND
the correlation between placement of toll booths and the accident rate,
would become very clear!
Would be very interesting.
Just to clarify, there are only booths in one direction and on one side only, i.e. you don't need to stop at all when going east and only need to stop going west when the bridge is well behind you.
The Wiz said:
"The majority of accidents have occurred because motorists fail to slow down on the approach to the toll booth and then collide with stationery vehicles, injuring innocent, law-abiding motorists," said John Rowling, manager of the Highway Robbery Partnership
A motorist, innocent and law abaiding ? :laugh : i thought we were all mass murdering speeding dangerous peadeophile criminals and should be fined heavily untill we drive at a crawl everywhere , as this cuntry is so intent on taking itself back to the stoneage i have just bought a semi detetched cave and a dinosaur to get about on .
Any excuse for another f**king robbery van
I've said it before the toll booths are great, one of the few places you can do a 0-70mph sprint, wacky races as 10 odd boothes flow in to 3 lanes, Daz i hear what your saying about braking from 120 mph. Speed is safe its the stopping that hurts people & damages cars. Guns are dangerous? Naa just a bit of plastic & metal until someone fires it. All we need to do is focus on stopping cars hitting each other not slowing them down.
It's not the speed that causes 'accidents' on the westbound approach to the tolls, it's muppets with one hand in their trouser pockets trying to count £4.60 or whatever it costs (hard to keep track of the toll these days) by using up every last piece of loose change 
You have to be so careful approaching the tolls prior to the section where the road widens - It is common to see cars drift across lanes whilst drivers are counting their cash - I've even seen someone brush the armco on the central reservation
Chris
You have to be so careful approaching the tolls prior to the section where the road widens - It is common to see cars drift across lanes whilst drivers are counting their cash - I've even seen someone brush the armco on the central reservation
Chris
leosayer said:
Why not remove the toll booths altogether if they are causing accidents? Another example of the government placing revenue collection above safety of the public.
As much as I would like to agree with you on that point I wish to point out that the Goverment are not creating revenue on that Bridge. (Well nonly the tax bit).
Both Severn bridges believe it or not are owned by the French and it is them who collect vast amounts of money in tolls.
However, you can blame the Goverment for allowing the French to take control in matters. When the proposal for a second Severn crossing was put forward there were two proposals.
One the bridge proposal from the French. Two was a dam/bridge crossing that would incorperate electrical generating equipement that would be capable of producing enough electricity to power the south west and south Wales. Given that the Severn estuary as the second fastest rising tide in the world turning the generators would have been very easy.
In my opinion the French must have paid out an enormous amount of money in little or large brown envelopes don`t you agree?
splodge s4 said:
I've said it before the toll booths are great, one of the few places you can do a 0-70mph sprint,
Careful splodge, the NSL doesn't start until all the lanes merge back into 2 or 3 (about 1/3 mile), so you can do a 0-50 sprint, but no more.
How long before they put a van AFTER the toll booths? Tossers.
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