Motorway at 2am
Discussion
Just posting this to provoke discussion:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3732746.stm
M74 (not A74 as BBC quote). Rural 3-lane motorway, many miles between junctions. 2am, Sunday night/Monday morning.
5 car pile up, 1 dead, both carriageways closed.
So, is it safe to do 100mph on a deserted motorway at 2am?
No reasons are given for the accident, so much speculation...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3732746.stm
M74 (not A74 as BBC quote). Rural 3-lane motorway, many miles between junctions. 2am, Sunday night/Monday morning.
5 car pile up, 1 dead, both carriageways closed.
So, is it safe to do 100mph on a deserted motorway at 2am?
No reasons are given for the accident, so much speculation...
Size Nine Elm said:
Just posting this to provoke discussion:
So, is it safe to do 100mph on a deserted motorway at 2am?
yes
in fact i've done 100mph on a busy motorway at 8:30am on a weekday. There were no accidents of any kind, was that safe? say these 5 cars were all doing 45mph that night(we don't know) - is it safe to do 45mph on the motorway at 2am?
>> Edited by Nano2nd on Monday 11th October 15:37
OK, reason for posting... and partly from experience.
Rule of safe driving is always to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
So, in the dark, just how far is that - even with good headlights? 100mph = 600ft stopping distance (Highway code) or 300-400 ft (realistic) - but thats assuming you spot a hazard the moment it enters your headlights at that speed - I suspect reaction times are a bit more than normal.
If you add into the equation 'light' oncoming traffic, even every 200 yards, so you are on dipped headlights, your visible range is very low.
So imagine doing 100mph on dipped headlights to find a car across your carriageway in the dark. Not saying that's what happened here, but tis possible...
(Been there, done that, but not at 100... '70', honest.)
Rule of safe driving is always to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
So, in the dark, just how far is that - even with good headlights? 100mph = 600ft stopping distance (Highway code) or 300-400 ft (realistic) - but thats assuming you spot a hazard the moment it enters your headlights at that speed - I suspect reaction times are a bit more than normal.
If you add into the equation 'light' oncoming traffic, even every 200 yards, so you are on dipped headlights, your visible range is very low.
So imagine doing 100mph on dipped headlights to find a car across your carriageway in the dark. Not saying that's what happened here, but tis possible...
(Been there, done that, but not at 100... '70', honest.)
Size Nine Elm said:
OK, reason for posting... and partly from experience.
Rule of safe driving is always to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
So, in the dark, just how far is that - even with good headlights? 100mph = 600ft stopping distance (Highway code) or 300-400 ft (realistic) - but thats assuming you spot a hazard the moment it enters your headlights at that speed - I suspect reaction times are a bit more than normal.
If you add into the equation 'light' oncoming traffic, even every 200 yards, so you are on dipped headlights, your visible range is very low.
So imagine doing 100mph on dipped headlights to find a car across your carriageway in the dark. Not saying that's what happened here, but tis possible...
(Been there, done that, but not at 100... '70', honest.)
Had the same thing. Approx 02:00AM coming off the M25 onto the M20 at Swanley (coastbound). Proceeding down the sliproad when Numpty driver in BMW 5 Series comes past me like a bat out of hell. Saw him come to a complete stop in the middle lane a bit further up the road but no brakelights!! When I approached, at a very slow speed I hasten to add, I saw he had T-boned a woman trying to get onto the London bound carriageway (there was a break in the armco at that point) she was at 90 degrees to the direction of travel in the middle lane.
Size Nine Elm said:
OK, reason for posting... and partly from experience.
Rule of safe driving is always to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
So, in the dark, just how far is that - even with good headlights? 100mph = 600ft stopping distance (Highway code) or 300-400 ft (realistic) - but thats assuming you spot a hazard the moment it enters your headlights at that speed - I suspect reaction times are a bit more than normal.
If you add into the equation 'light' oncoming traffic, even every 200 yards, so you are on dipped headlights, your visible range is very low.
So imagine doing 100mph on dipped headlights to find a car across your carriageway in the dark. Not saying that's what happened here, but tis possible...
(Been there, done that, but not at 100... '70', honest.)
It's not that simple - My mainbeam headlights clearly illuminate my house from a mile away. I've tried it.
But when we're on dips, we don't just look within the area covered by our own dips do we? We also look at the vehicles ahead and see what their lights are showing up.
And if there's an obstruction between me and the car ahead it's likely to stop me seeing their tail lights isn't it?
The worst situation is when there's no traffic ahead, but oncoming traffic forces you to use dips and the shape of the road means that light from oncoing traffic isn't illuminating our road ahead. Under such circumstances 70mph should be about the absolute max.
But with plenty of traffic about lighting up the road I might feel safe at 100mph on dips.
safespeed said:
It's not that simple - My mainbeam headlights clearly illuminate my house from a mile away. I've tried it.
Big, big difference between 'illuminate' and 'see'. Especially when its something you are explicitly looking for, as opposed to something undefined looming out of the dark fro out of the range of your headlights.
safespeed said:
But when we're on dips, we don't just look within the area covered by our own dips do we? We also look at the vehicles ahead and see what their lights are showing up.
And if there's an obstruction between me and the car ahead it's likely to stop me seeing their tail lights isn't it?
True, but if there are no tail lights in front of you, 2am, you have no idea of what is outside the spread of your headlights.
safespeed said:
The worst situation is when there's no traffic ahead, but oncoming traffic forces you to use dips and the shape of the road means that light from oncoing traffic isn't illuminating our road ahead. Under such circumstances 70mph should be about the absolute max.
This is the scenario I was describing, and yes, I'd still postulate that violates the 'stop in the distance you can see to be clear' rule.
safespeed said:
But with plenty of traffic about lighting up the road I might feel safe at 100mph on dips.
But that isn't the scenario described.
Just raising the point because it is often said that 30mph may be too fast in town, but 100 on a deserted motorway at 2am should be OK... almost all the time it will be OK, but if there is an obstruction on the road, you'er going to come onto it very fast, and very unexpectedly.
My experience was following sparse traffic, all with tail lights, and moving out to the outside lane (no tail lights visible) to move past, and there was a car sideways across the outside lane in the dark. I'm not sure what speed would have adhered to the 'stop in the distance you can see to be clear', because I had about 0.5 secs realisation that the car was there before hitting it.
Size Nine Elm said:
The worst situation is when there's no traffic ahead, but oncoming traffic forces you to use dips and the shape of the road means that light from oncoing traffic isn't illuminating our road ahead. Under such circumstances 70mph should be about the absolute max.
This is the scenario I was describing, and yes, I'd still postulate that violates the 'stop in the distance you can see to be clear' rule.
It depends on the definition of "see to be clear" I think. We certainly wouldn't stop in time for small bits (2 inches?) of tyre shredding debris.
At the other extreme, a vehicle with reflectors would be no problem at all.
It's the middle ground - a drunk in dark clothing lying in the road maybe - where we might risk getting in real trouble.
I reckon a fair overall stopping distance from 70mph is a bit under 80 yards, and I reckon the range of dipped headlights is around 80 yards. On a motorway we'd hope to be able to steer around an obstruction.
But anything reflective is likely to reflect at 200 yards.
Size Nine Elm said:
Just posting this to provoke discussion:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3732746.stm
M74 (not A74 as BBC quote). Rural 3-lane motorway, many miles between junctions. 2am, Sunday night/Monday morning.
5 car pile up, 1 dead, both carriageways closed.
So, is it safe to do 100mph on a deserted motorway at 2am?
No reasons are given for the accident, so much speculation...
Neil, I travel this road regularly and know it like the back of my hand. It is an absolutely beautiful road, one of the finest motorway stretches in Britain as a matter of fact.
An accident at this time in the morning is extremely rare on this road, so whatever the cause I'm certain it wasn't the road.
It's known as the A74(M) at this point, so I think that's where the confusion is.
By the way I know of a lad in the Trafpol who regularly has the speed limiter cutting in on his T5 on that road, (155mph)!
Well - whatever caused this - it has been closed all day according to all traffic reports.
But would I or Mad Doc drive too fast in dark - er - NOPE! We drive at speed we feel fits conditions at time .... und yes - we have more than tonned it on German A.bahn ....
Two a.m. - bad lighting, relying in dipped lights, because the high beam would blind those in other carriageway - more than likely to be at nice sedate speed - especially if numpty ahead is pootling down mit no lights ........
But would I or Mad Doc drive too fast in dark - er - NOPE! We drive at speed we feel fits conditions at time .... und yes - we have more than tonned it on German A.bahn ....
Two a.m. - bad lighting, relying in dipped lights, because the high beam would blind those in other carriageway - more than likely to be at nice sedate speed - especially if
numpty ahead is pootling down mit no lights ........
Streetcop said:
But would I or Mad Doc drive too fast in dark - er - NOPE!
Neverin the past?
Street
Well
skiing down off piste at Santis at midnight at New Years' may count - und 
- admit - I was drunk 
at the time! 
(Und I was 18 .... 
) Und there was the time when we - er - drove around the Corniche after chucking out time at the Casino.... - um good job there were no
gendarmes around at the time...... Und we have driven at really naughty speeds in wee small hours in Germany ......
Size Nine Elm said:130 meters (thinking plus stopping) at 100MPH for a modern car and an alert driver sounds realistic to me.
OK, reason for posting... and partly from experience.
Rule of safe driving is always to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
So, in the dark, just how far is that - even with good headlights? 100mph = 600ft stopping distance (Highway code) or 300-400 ft (realistic) - but thats assuming you spot a hazard the moment it enters your headlights at that speed - I suspect reaction times are a bit more than normal.
If you add into the equation 'light' oncoming traffic, even every 200 yards, so you are on dipped headlights, your visible range is very low.
So imagine doing 100mph on dipped headlights to find a car across your carriageway in the dark. Not saying that's what happened here, but tis possible...
(Been there, done that, but not at 100... '70', honest.)
If this situation ever occurs, you could easily drive into another lane or the emergency lane, this is the point of having ABS. I guess the numpties would not think of doing that! (cue the BMW driver as per oldred's post)
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