Motorway at 2am
Discussion
DeMolay said:
No reasons are given for the accident, so much speculation...
So why bring up the issue of 100mph? Where on earth did that come from?
NEVER assume anything until you have the facts of the matter at hand.
Following this accident, Size Nine Elms was raising a hypothetical question to a number of PHers who claim to be able to drive safely, significantly above the speed limit. What is the problem with that?
DAZ
I don't know why I'm adding to this post which has certainly been done to death (no pun intended) in the past.
There are loads of variables in an accident , some of them have more effect at any one time than another, conditions, driver awareness, speed, vehicle condition and so on.
All I can say is that if the driver of the lorry that ran me and another car into the central reservation southbound on the M1 just north of trowell services at 4.45 last Tuesday is on here, it would've been nice if you had stopped to see if we were alive.
And NO we weren't speeding.
It was dry, headlights were used, speed was below the limit, vehicles seemed ok (although contents shaken afterwards). The only way it wouldn't have happened is if I weren't there at the time.
Sorry folks I just needed to get it off my chest.
WH
There are loads of variables in an accident , some of them have more effect at any one time than another, conditions, driver awareness, speed, vehicle condition and so on.
All I can say is that if the driver of the lorry that ran me and another car into the central reservation southbound on the M1 just north of trowell services at 4.45 last Tuesday is on here, it would've been nice if you had stopped to see if we were alive.
And NO we weren't speeding.
It was dry, headlights were used, speed was below the limit, vehicles seemed ok (although contents shaken afterwards). The only way it wouldn't have happened is if I weren't there at the time.
Sorry folks I just needed to get it off my chest.
WH
dazren said:
Size Nine Elm said:
No reasons are given for the accident, so much speculation...
So why bring up the issue of 100mph? Where on earth did that come from?
NEVER assume anything until you have the facts of the matter at hand.
Following this accident, Size Nine Elms was raising a hypothetical question to a number of PHers who claim to be able to drive safely, significantly above the speed limit. What is the problem with that?
DAZ
The problem I have is that there was an implied inference that the car(s) involved were travelling at that speed. If he wanted to stimulate debate about whether or not it was safe to travel at 100mph in the dark then why on earth try to quantify it by inserting it after a story in which someone died, the cause of which is unknown.
Flawed logic.
about the only thing i fear while driving at speed are factors which are out of my control, which i suppose is the risk you take if your going to drive/ride/fly etc....
Things like high speed driving/riding( whether it be at early hours of the morning or not ) i always have two thoughts in the back of my mind whilst on my bike/car is tyre failure or an animal running out into the road from road side bushes or whatever, other than that im happy to drive/ride at speed when conditions are safe to do so.
As long as im not driving or riding like a twat and putting other people whether it be a passenger or other road users in any unreasonable risk, then id say what i do is done at my own personal expense.
Things like high speed driving/riding( whether it be at early hours of the morning or not ) i always have two thoughts in the back of my mind whilst on my bike/car is tyre failure or an animal running out into the road from road side bushes or whatever, other than that im happy to drive/ride at speed when conditions are safe to do so.
As long as im not driving or riding like a twat and putting other people whether it be a passenger or other road users in any unreasonable risk, then id say what i do is done at my own personal expense.
that road is always so quiet. It is so ironic (my respects to the family of the dead) that between those very junctions they regularly use a scamera van. What a lot of use that was? This road is usually safe for speeds well over the ton as often perfectly executed by me. A case of numpty driving I think.
Baz
Baz
Crayven said:
about the only thing i fear while driving at speed are factors which are out of my control, which i suppose is the risk you take if your going to drive/ride/fly etc....
Things like high speed driving/riding( whether it be at early hours of the morning or not ) i always have two thoughts in the back of my mind whilst on my bike/car is tyre failure or an animal running out into the road from road side bushes or whatever, other than that im happy to drive/ride at speed when conditions are safe to do so.
As long as im not driving or riding like a twat and putting other people whether it be a passenger or other road users in any unreasonable risk, then id say what i do is done at my own personal expense.
Yes, in terms of what one might call restraining factors, there are basically three that, while I don't worry about them, I do bear in mind:
a) Mechanical failure.
b) Sudden tyre deflation.
c) The intervention of a stray animal.
Rightly or wrongly I feel I can protect myself against most other things. I certainly never drive in a manner that leaves me with a risk of running out of braking space, or arriving at bends with excessive speed.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
Yes, in terms of what one might call restraining factors, there are basically three that, while I don't worry about them, I do bear in mind:
a) Mechanical failure.
b) Sudden tyre deflation.
c) The intervention of a stray animal.
Rightly or wrongly I feel I can protect myself against most other things. I certainly never drive in a manner that leaves me with a risk of running out of braking space, or arriving at bends with excessive speed.
I'd agree with that, except I'd delete "sudden" from your b. Here's the lesson I learned about gradual tyre deflation.
In about 1980 I was driving down the M11 on a very windy night. I knew it was increasingly difficult to keep the car in a straight line, but I was very happy to blame the wind. I came to that long left hand bend at the south end of the motorway and all hell broke loose, or at least the back end of the car did. I slithered and half spun and wrestled it to the hard shoulder, where I soon discovered that the rear offside tyre was very very hot and very very low on pressure. Fortunately I didn't hit anything.
I learned two lessons:
* If the car is behaving strangly, NEVER assume you know why.
* Check tyre temperatures with your hand every time you stop during a high speed run. You can easily detect the extra heat resulting from a loss of pressure of 5psi and probably 3psi. Twice since then I've found low tyre pressure at an early stage using this technique.
Having started this thread, just to clarify a couple of points:
- I made no assumption about the speed or cause of the accident. It just got me thinking about how an accident involving 5 cars could happen on a new, clear, rural motorway at 2am.
- From the paper today, the accident involved a car and a lorry, and three other cars then were involved after the original accident. Hence my diversion into discussing driving at night at speed, relative to what you can actually see to be clear in the range of your headlights, dipped or otherwise.
- The figure of 100mph was from many quotes here and on other sites/groups about 30mph being too fast at times in town, while 100 on an empty motorway at 2 in the morning could be safe. Just wondering about how 'safe' that is, see headlights above.
My postulation is that, at night, on motorways and dual carriageways, people do not drive at a speed at which they can stop in the distance they can see to be clear, but according to the distance in which they cannot see an obstruction - however dimly lit that distance may be, and assuming an absence of tail lights etc equates to 'clear'.
- I made no assumption about the speed or cause of the accident. It just got me thinking about how an accident involving 5 cars could happen on a new, clear, rural motorway at 2am.
- From the paper today, the accident involved a car and a lorry, and three other cars then were involved after the original accident. Hence my diversion into discussing driving at night at speed, relative to what you can actually see to be clear in the range of your headlights, dipped or otherwise.
- The figure of 100mph was from many quotes here and on other sites/groups about 30mph being too fast at times in town, while 100 on an empty motorway at 2 in the morning could be safe. Just wondering about how 'safe' that is, see headlights above.
My postulation is that, at night, on motorways and dual carriageways, people do not drive at a speed at which they can stop in the distance they can see to be clear, but according to the distance in which they cannot see an obstruction - however dimly lit that distance may be, and assuming an absence of tail lights etc equates to 'clear'.
On a lit motorway at night you can see something as big as a car (lit or not) hundreds of yards away. I guess you could still get into trouble if two cars were travelling in loose convoy, and the car in front was slow to react and didn't take avoiding action until quite late, and the car behind wasn't paying attention. I guess at some time or other we've all let our attention slip.
On unlit roads at night I would expect to be able to see something the size of a car soon enough to avoid it, but I wouldn't expect to see something significantly smaller (house brick or whatever) until far too late.
On unlit roads at night I would expect to be able to see something the size of a car soon enough to avoid it, but I wouldn't expect to see something significantly smaller (house brick or whatever) until far too late.
4 cars in the early hours of this morning, found themselves travelling along an unlit section of motorway that had the remains of a HGV tyre and wheel protector in two lanes...
Result: 4 x damaged cars..(radiotors, sumps, bumpers etc etc)
Clear motorways....Oh yeah! Get your foot down guys...it'll be ok...
Street
Result: 4 x damaged cars..(radiotors, sumps, bumpers etc etc)
Clear motorways....Oh yeah! Get your foot down guys...it'll be ok...
Street
safespeed said:
Yes, in terms of what one might call restraining factors, there are basically three that, while I don't worry about them, I do bear in mind:
a) Mechanical failure.
b) Sudden tyre deflation.
c) The intervention of a stray animal.
Rightly or wrongly I feel I can protect myself against most other things. I certainly never drive in a manner that leaves me with a risk of running out of braking space, or arriving at bends with excessive speed.
I'd agree with that, except I'd delete "sudden" from your b.
...two lessons:
* If the car is behaving strangly, NEVER assume you know why.
* Check tyre temperatures with your hand every time you stop during a high speed run. You can easily detect the extra heat resulting from a loss of pressure of 5psi and probably 3psi. Twice since then I've found low tyre pressure at an early stage using this technique.
Actually I'm generally very alert to anything about the car that seems at all unusual, whether it be indicated by sight, sound, feel, smell, or whatever.
Even so, what you say can usefully be added as a further safeguard. It all helps.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
IOLAIRE said:
Just posting this to provoke discussion:
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3732746.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3732746.stm</a>
M74 (not A74 as BBC quote). Rural 3-lane motorway, many miles between junctions. 2am, Sunday night/Monday morning.
5 car pile up, 1 dead, both carriageways closed.
So, is it safe to do 100mph on a deserted motorway at 2am?
No reasons are given for the accident, so much speculation...
Neil, I travel this road regularly and know it like the back of my hand. It is an absolutely beautiful road, one of the finest motorway stretches in Britain as a matter of fact.
An accident at this time in the morning is extremely rare on this road, so whatever the cause I'm certain it wasn't the road.
It's known as the A74(M) at this point, so I think that's where the confusion is.
By the way I know of a lad in the Trafpol who regularly has the speed limiter cutting in on his T5 on that road, (155mph)!
I'm also local to that bit of road. Hopefully I'll get the full story when I head back to Dumfries at the weekend rather than jumping to conclusions.
I'd be especially interested to know the state of the weather at the time as the surface is actually rubbish in that it holds water on top rather than allowing proper draining. I've had some hairy experiences when the tread has been getting low.
Streetcop said:
4 cars in the early hours of this morning, found themselves travelling along an unlit section of motorway that had the remains of a HGV tyre and wheel protector in two lanes...
Result: 4 x damaged cars..(radiotors, sumps, bumpers etc etc)
Clear motorways....Oh yeah! Get your foot down guys...it'll be ok...
Street
Fair enough Gary, but Trafpol car in lane 2 of an otherwise deserted unlit motorway, very high speed RH curve, 114 mph, in the dark?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
Actually I'm generally very alert to anything about the car that seems at all unusual, whether it be indicated by sight, sound, feel, smell, or whatever.
Even so, what you say can usefully be added as a further safeguard. It all helps.
Yep. Exactly the spirit and the purpose of my post.
Remember too, that when I learned that lesson on the M11, I'd been driving just 8 years and hadn't taken any advanced training. Things that were a mystery in those days seem like common knowledge now. And I bet we have a load of folk reading with less experience. I always hope that some of them can benefit from something I learned years ago.
Even so, I've never seen the tip about checking tyre temperatures by hand in print.
TripleS said:
4 cars in the early hours of this morning, found themselves travelling along an unlit section of motorway that had the remains of a HGV tyre and wheel protector in two lanes...
Result: 4 x damaged cars..(radiotors, sumps, bumpers etc etc)
Clear motorways....Oh yeah! Get your foot down guys...it'll be ok...
Street
Fair enough Gary, but Trafpol car in lane 2 of an otherwise deserted unlit motorway, very high speed RH curve, 114 mph, in the dark?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Yep..sounds good to me..
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