Intimidating/dangerous driving by plod.What to do?
Discussion
(Also posted under "125mph for 0.6ish miles"):
I'm on the bike, girlfriend pillion, going round Hyde Park Corner gently, having spied a police Land Rover to our left. Second biker comes haring around (not terribly unsafely but certainly over the limit and without having seen police Landy) on our left, like us coming from Park Lane and heading towards Belgrave (?) Square. We all stop at lights on roundabout. We all then turn left towards the square: other biker, then us, then police.
I notice my speed has hit 33 so cut it to indicated 31 and mosey on round the square to head towards Sloane Street. Police Landy is sitting no more than 3 feet off my rear. I am not happy about this. My girlfriend is bricking it. He's probably that close behind me because he's interested in the other bike, which has pulled away and can be seen turning left towards Eaton Sq(?), but isn't sure if he can get round me before the next junction (and obstruction to him overtaking). No matter. He's too close behind me.
We continue to Sloane Street; sure enough, the Landy turns left to pursue the other biker. We turn left and cross Sloane Square heading towards the river. Out of the first junction after Sloane Square comes the other biker - only just in a manner that is not unsafe to us. I'm thinking "great - at last I know which of those routes home (towards Battersea) is faster". Then out from the same junction, now behind me, comes the Landy.
We all stop at the next set of lights. Annoyed both at the unawareness of the other rider and at the behaviour of the police, I lift the jaws of my helmet and call over to the other biker "You know you've had a police car following you for a while, don't you?" I chose my words carefully, so I couldn't be found to have aided and abetted (or whatever - I'm no expert). I also didn't want the biker done for speeding off on the long straight in front of him at 60 (perhaps) when plod should have stopped him much earlier. Muppet that the other biker is, he immediately looks round behind him. Two seconds letter, on come the blue lights. Traffic light changes. I know I've done nothing wrong (unless two seconds at 33mph is sinful), so off I go.
But here are the questions:
1. Shouldn't the police have stopped the biker as soon as he had committed an offence, if they were going to do so at all? He certainly wasn't committing one when he was stopped at the lights and they put their blues on. Were they allowing him the opportunity to commit a more serious offence, and so endangering the public?
2. I was very annoyed while rounding Belgrave Square. Plod should have known better. I resisted the very strong temptation to stop, prevent the police car from passing, walk over to his window, ask for his name and number and tell him he had been driving dangerously. If I'd yanked on the anchors, he'd have hit me before he reacted, let alone before his heavy Landy had stopped. How would he have reacted if I had done that?
Would he have apologised? Would he have tried his hardest to find fault with my bike/tax/insurance/anything he could check or nicked me for a couple of seconds of 33mph and 20 more at an indicated 31? Would he have praised me for my road awareness or been incensed?
3. If I had said to the other rider "Don't look behind you whatever you do, just ride below the limit for a while to avoid being nicked", could I have been nicked?
4. If, when he pulled over the other biker, I had stopped and complained then about the policeman's driving behind me, would (i) the other biker have got away with nothing; (ii) I have got myself into potential trouble; (iii) I have implicated myself somehow just by stopping; (iv) my girlfriend's fear and upset have been a powerful weapon?
I really was not at all happy with what I thought was either deliberately or negligently intimidating driving on the part of the plod (not to mention that they appearted to be trying to allow the biker to commit a worse offence). I just wasn't quite sure what to do about it.
Any helpful thoughts?
I'm on the bike, girlfriend pillion, going round Hyde Park Corner gently, having spied a police Land Rover to our left. Second biker comes haring around (not terribly unsafely but certainly over the limit and without having seen police Landy) on our left, like us coming from Park Lane and heading towards Belgrave (?) Square. We all stop at lights on roundabout. We all then turn left towards the square: other biker, then us, then police.
I notice my speed has hit 33 so cut it to indicated 31 and mosey on round the square to head towards Sloane Street. Police Landy is sitting no more than 3 feet off my rear. I am not happy about this. My girlfriend is bricking it. He's probably that close behind me because he's interested in the other bike, which has pulled away and can be seen turning left towards Eaton Sq(?), but isn't sure if he can get round me before the next junction (and obstruction to him overtaking). No matter. He's too close behind me.
We continue to Sloane Street; sure enough, the Landy turns left to pursue the other biker. We turn left and cross Sloane Square heading towards the river. Out of the first junction after Sloane Square comes the other biker - only just in a manner that is not unsafe to us. I'm thinking "great - at last I know which of those routes home (towards Battersea) is faster". Then out from the same junction, now behind me, comes the Landy.
We all stop at the next set of lights. Annoyed both at the unawareness of the other rider and at the behaviour of the police, I lift the jaws of my helmet and call over to the other biker "You know you've had a police car following you for a while, don't you?" I chose my words carefully, so I couldn't be found to have aided and abetted (or whatever - I'm no expert). I also didn't want the biker done for speeding off on the long straight in front of him at 60 (perhaps) when plod should have stopped him much earlier. Muppet that the other biker is, he immediately looks round behind him. Two seconds letter, on come the blue lights. Traffic light changes. I know I've done nothing wrong (unless two seconds at 33mph is sinful), so off I go.
But here are the questions:
1. Shouldn't the police have stopped the biker as soon as he had committed an offence, if they were going to do so at all? He certainly wasn't committing one when he was stopped at the lights and they put their blues on. Were they allowing him the opportunity to commit a more serious offence, and so endangering the public?
2. I was very annoyed while rounding Belgrave Square. Plod should have known better. I resisted the very strong temptation to stop, prevent the police car from passing, walk over to his window, ask for his name and number and tell him he had been driving dangerously. If I'd yanked on the anchors, he'd have hit me before he reacted, let alone before his heavy Landy had stopped. How would he have reacted if I had done that?
Would he have apologised? Would he have tried his hardest to find fault with my bike/tax/insurance/anything he could check or nicked me for a couple of seconds of 33mph and 20 more at an indicated 31? Would he have praised me for my road awareness or been incensed?
3. If I had said to the other rider "Don't look behind you whatever you do, just ride below the limit for a while to avoid being nicked", could I have been nicked?
4. If, when he pulled over the other biker, I had stopped and complained then about the policeman's driving behind me, would (i) the other biker have got away with nothing; (ii) I have got myself into potential trouble; (iii) I have implicated myself somehow just by stopping; (iv) my girlfriend's fear and upset have been a powerful weapon?
I really was not at all happy with what I thought was either deliberately or negligently intimidating driving on the part of the plod (not to mention that they appearted to be trying to allow the biker to commit a worse offence). I just wasn't quite sure what to do about it.
Any helpful thoughts?
Likewise if I'm in the car. Or I have sometimes gradually slowed down to a crawl before carrying on.
But what I'm most interested in are the views of Streetcop, Dibble, etc. on how they would have reacted (not that they'd have put themselves in such a situation) if I had challeneged them about their driving, and what would have been the best way to go about it?
There has been one other occasion when I have been tempted to do something similar, which makes me think it may happen again.
But what I'm most interested in are the views of Streetcop, Dibble, etc. on how they would have reacted (not that they'd have put themselves in such a situation) if I had challeneged them about their driving, and what would have been the best way to go about it?
There has been one other occasion when I have been tempted to do something similar, which makes me think it may happen again.
Blimey! Named and shamed!
I don't know the area, and didn't see the driving for myself, so the following is obviously my interpretation of your interpretation...
Top and bottom of it is, if you were unhappy with the conduct of the officer (and not just on this occasion), you are of course entitled to ask for their number and the station to which they are attached (but not their name, FWIW), and make a formal complaint.
In reality, what are you going to achieve? There is the possibility the officer wasn't aware their driving was "below par", and they may get words of advice - any prosecution would seem to be unlikely.
I think I've answered the other questions already. I'm the same as anyone else, though. You can criticise my looks, my weight, my house, my partner, my colleagues, and I'll take it all on the chin... but tell me my driving's below par? Are you mad? I'm PERFECT!!
My point is that I'd like to be able to say that the officer may have realised you had a valid point, and said "Righto sir, thanks very much, I'll bear it ion mind". I think, realistically, that you may have got "option B" - a hard time.
All that said, it's a bit tricky to give a proper answer without having been there and seen both sides. We don't always know the reasons for what's happening - like the housholder who looked out of his bedroom window a couple of nights ago to see me punching someone and them falling to the ground. On the face of it, that's assault. What householder hadn't seen was this person knocking my partner to the ground with a lump of 4" fence stave seconds earlier...
I don't know the area, and didn't see the driving for myself, so the following is obviously my interpretation of your interpretation...
Top and bottom of it is, if you were unhappy with the conduct of the officer (and not just on this occasion), you are of course entitled to ask for their number and the station to which they are attached (but not their name, FWIW), and make a formal complaint.
In reality, what are you going to achieve? There is the possibility the officer wasn't aware their driving was "below par", and they may get words of advice - any prosecution would seem to be unlikely.
charltm said:Not always possible - I look for a "safe stopping site", and always PNC the vehicle before stopping. If it's busy on the radio, it may take a while for a result to come back.
1. Shouldn't the police have stopped the biker as soon as he had committed an offence
I think I've answered the other questions already. I'm the same as anyone else, though. You can criticise my looks, my weight, my house, my partner, my colleagues, and I'll take it all on the chin... but tell me my driving's below par? Are you mad? I'm PERFECT!!
My point is that I'd like to be able to say that the officer may have realised you had a valid point, and said "Righto sir, thanks very much, I'll bear it ion mind". I think, realistically, that you may have got "option B" - a hard time.
All that said, it's a bit tricky to give a proper answer without having been there and seen both sides. We don't always know the reasons for what's happening - like the housholder who looked out of his bedroom window a couple of nights ago to see me punching someone and them falling to the ground. On the face of it, that's assault. What householder hadn't seen was this person knocking my partner to the ground with a lump of 4" fence stave seconds earlier...
It would have been interesting what the Video in the Landie showed.
There are, however, two sides to every story and without knowing the full facts it really is impossible to comment.
It would however have been an Advanced driver so i hope that hes not letting his standards drop.
I dont mean this in a negative way but as Ted has already said...dont let it ruin your day.
>> Edited by Tonyrec on Wednesday 27th October 14:16
There are, however, two sides to every story and without knowing the full facts it really is impossible to comment.
It would however have been an Advanced driver so i hope that hes not letting his standards drop.
I dont mean this in a negative way but as Ted has already said...dont let it ruin your day.
>> Edited by Tonyrec on Wednesday 27th October 14:16
Thanks Dibble. I wouldn't have made a formal complaint in any case but I suspected "option B" was a possibility at the time. Probably wouldn't bring it up now if my girlfriend hadn't mentioned it to me again yesterday, months after the fact (after an incident when an Italian plated scooterist sat inches from my non-existent bumper before riding past and kicking my door!).
I haven't been on here for a couple of years, BTW. It's always nice to come back and find there are still other similarly-minded people out there. Thanks for your response.
I haven't been on here for a couple of years, BTW. It's always nice to come back and find there are still other similarly-minded people out there. Thanks for your response.
charltm3 said:Stuart Harding anyone?
If I had said to the other rider "Don't look behind you whatever you do, just ride below the limit for a while to avoid being nicked", could I have been nicked?
From Telegraph June 2004; "A pensioner who warned motorists of a police speed trap was convicted of wilfully obstructing a constable in the execution of his duty, banned from driving and ordered to pay £364 costs yesterday."
Had an unmarked Omega sitting on my bumper on a 30 dual carriageway.
Traffic was light and I drew his attention by hoofing it out of a side road whilst checking for an earlier mis-fire. Spotted him a long way back. Never went over 30, but he wound it up to catch me, then just sat there....far too close.
More than a little peeved, I pulled over, hoping he'd do the same. He didn't....just gave me a hard stare and beetled off.
The next time that happens, I'm going to stand on the brakes...HARD.
Didn't you see the bloody dog, ossifer....?
Grrrr..........
Traffic was light and I drew his attention by hoofing it out of a side road whilst checking for an earlier mis-fire. Spotted him a long way back. Never went over 30, but he wound it up to catch me, then just sat there....far too close.
More than a little peeved, I pulled over, hoping he'd do the same. He didn't....just gave me a hard stare and beetled off.
The next time that happens, I'm going to stand on the brakes...HARD.
Didn't you see the bloody dog, ossifer....?
Grrrr..........
mybrainhurts said:
Had an unmarked Omega sitting on my bumper on a 30 dual carriageway.
Traffic was light and I drew his attention by hoofing it out of a side road whilst checking for an earlier mis-fire. Spotted him a long way back. Never went over 30, but he wound it up to catch me, then just sat there....far too close.
More than a little peeved, I pulled over, hoping he'd do the same. He didn't....just gave me a hard stare and beetled off.
The next time that happens, I'm going to stand on the brakes...HARD.
Didn't you see the bloody dog, ossifer....?
Grrrr..........
Bet it was in or near Chesterfield???
Street
Also from another thread, with a bit added. Just last night, had an unmarked car right under my rear bumper. I suspect they'd seen me make progress and were interested to take a look, but why so close? Couldn't see their headlights never mind the registration number. When a gap in the traffic emerged, on a dual carriageway, took it up to 69.9 smartish, just to get separation and see the number plate. No respite, they were back on my barbecue tray equally smartish and goodbye two second rule. Anyway after a mile at 69.9 they pulled out and moved off. It was clearly plod, two rear view mirrors and blues glinting behind the grille. Why do they do that?
Another time along a single carriageway at NSL, a marked car which I'd seen closing in for about half a mile (after sitting back previously) overtook and then the brake lights came on. It slowed but then made progress about 5mph below the limit, meaning I couldn't really overtake safely without exceeding the limit - nor in reality could I overtake without 'asking for it'. Why do they do that?
>> Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 28th October 00:44
Another time along a single carriageway at NSL, a marked car which I'd seen closing in for about half a mile (after sitting back previously) overtook and then the brake lights came on. It slowed but then made progress about 5mph below the limit, meaning I couldn't really overtake safely without exceeding the limit - nor in reality could I overtake without 'asking for it'. Why do they do that?
>> Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 28th October 00:44
turbobloke said:
Also from another thread, with a bit added. Just last night, had an unmarked car right under my rear bumper. I suspect they'd seen me make progress and were interested to take a look, but why so close? Couldn't see their headlights never mind the registration number. When a gap in the traffic emerged, on a dual carriageway, took it up to 69.9 smartish, just to get separation and see the number plate. No respite, they were back on my barbecue tray equally smartish and goodbye two second rule. Anyway after a mile at 69.9 they pulled out and moved off. It was clearly plod, two rear view mirrors and blues glinting behind the grille. Why do they do that?
Another time along a single carriageway at NSL, a marked car which I'd seen closing in for about half a mile (after sitting back previously) overtook and then the brake lights came on. It slowed but then made progress about 5mph below the limit, meaning I couldn't really overtake safely without exceeding the limit - nor in reality could I overtake without 'asking for it'. Why do they do that?
>> Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 28th October 00:44
The only way you will get an explanation is when you complain and the investigating officer askes the drivers to explain his actions during the video replay.
I would have no hesitation in doing this if this happened to me.
ca092003 said:Braver than I, Gunga. No longer have details of the earlier marked car incident, but still have the second car's details. My only explanation for why they do this is "because they can". Curious it should happen just after it cropped up on PH. It seems to be a successful tactic as it's very tempting to boot it to get a tailgater off your bumper, then you'll see the blues light up and make your contribution to Greedy Gordon's money wasting fund. Not good. The overtakerslowerdowner was really taking the p155 mind.
The only way you will get an explanation is when you complain and the investigating officer askes the drivers to explain his actions during the video replay. I would have no hesitation in doing this if this happened to me.
turbobloke said:
My only explanation for why they do this is "because they can".
Indeed. However, the question that needs answering is "Who police's the police?"
What is the phrase that the bib's like to use? Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users?
I'd imagine that people who become TrafPol are pretty interested in blatting around in fast cars. And will be pretty p***** if they have to explain their driving behaviour to an Inspector (or above) when a MoP has complained.
Don't drive like idiots and you won't get into trouble. Now where have we heard that before?
Streetcop said:
Ah, more rantings from ca8972648714698174687 and his internal affairs brigade...
Still no comments from you on the driving standards of the other emergency services I see....
Street
So you don't like the message so you continue to attack the messenger. Nice one. I've come to expect little else these days from you.
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