Intimidating/dangerous driving by plod.What to do?

[^Slider^]

To be fair, all we hear is criticism of police drivers. And no suggestions about how to realisticly improve things.
There are a few drivers out there who im sure could do with improvement, but bear in mind to do a IR course is 3 weeks long, and no training will be able to fully accomodate the variety of numpty drivers out there that cant see a marked up car with blue lights / headlights going with sirons. And still get to the location same day!

[ca092003]

^Slider^ said:

To be fair, all we hear is criticism of police drivers. And no suggestions about how to realisticly improve things. There are a few drivers out there who im sure could do with improvement, but bear in mind to do a IR course is 3 weeks long, and no training will be able to fully accomodate the variety of numpty drivers out there that cant see a marked up car with blue lights / headlights going with sirons. And still get to the location same day!

Slider

Fair point. I just take exception to this idea that police drivers are somehow above the law when they are not.

If a BiB gets shirty with me he WILL find himself in front of the Duty Inspector whether or not he books me. I am always polite to others, I expect the same in return.

Once over police drivers had to go through 4 seperate courses to get a Class 1. These days the training is less and the accident stats (allegedly) indicate that the number of accidents are on the increase. Driver education anyone?

I'd like to see a return to the "public information films" that the BBC uses to run years ago. There are 1001 topics that could be covered in the issue of road safety.

[^Slider^]

As far as i am aware at the moment there are 3 or 4 levels to police driving with additional courses for specialisation. 1) drive panda with no lights. 2) IR course blues and twos, 3) Traffic driving course, 4) tactical persuit course (TPAC)

These accident figures.... I dont know of the stats but how many were due to police driver error and how many were down to civilian driver error?

The reason i ask is because, we do respond at speed and i would think that perhaps alot of crashes were caused by numpty drivers not doing what they should.

Also i would hazzard a guess that some of the accident figures will include the results of Tactical persuit and containment (where cars are boxed in) and suspects ramming police cars. Every prang is recorded even a boshed wing miror is recorded and will make up the stats.

Edited :- perhaps driver education should be aimed at the civvy drivers as that would minimise the risks to police and civilians. As you can imporove police driving 10 fold but if the numpties are still there the risks remain the same.

>> Edited by ^Slider^ on Thursday 28th October 18:43

[ca092003]

^Slider^ said:

As far as i am aware at the moment there are 3 or 4 levels to police driving with additional courses for specialisation. 1) drive panda with no lights. 2) IR course blues and twos, 3) Traffic driving course, 4) tactical persuit course (TPAC) These accident figures.... I dont know of the stats but how many were due to police driver error and how many were down to civilian driver error? The reason i ask is because, we do respond at speed and i would think that perhaps alot of crashes were caused by numpty drivers not doing what they should. Also i would hazzard a guess that some of the accident figures will include the results of Tactical persuit and containment (where cars are boxed in) and suspects ramming police cars. Every prang is recorded even a boshed wing miror is recorded and will make up the stats. Edited :- perhaps driver education should be aimed at the civvy drivers as that would minimise the risks to police and civilians. As you can imporove police driving 10 fold but if the numpties are still there the risks remain the same. >> Edited by ^Slider^ on Thursday 28th October 18:43

I think driver education needs to apply to all drivers. And civvy drivers should report bad driving by Bib to their superior officers.

Bib Drivers are 'supposed' to be the creme de la creme.

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

I think driver education needs to apply to all drivers. And civvy drivers should report bad driving by Bib to their superior officers. Bib Drivers are 'supposed' to be the creme de la creme.

I don't have any 'superior' officers!!!!! I do however have some officers that are senior in rank to me, or as they are called 'senior' officers...

And you're right bad driving should always be reported....so don't be suprised or upset when the nasty BiB dobb everyone who commits a traffic offence, no matter how trivial..

Street

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

And you're right bad driving should always be reported....so don't be suprised or upset when the nasty BiB dobb everyone who commits a traffic offence, no matter how trivial.. Street

It'll never happen. Wouldn't leave enough time for doughnut breaks.

[turbobloke]

^Slider^ said:

Edited :- perhaps driver education should be aimed at the civvy drivers as that would minimise the risks to police and civilians. As you can imporove police driving 10 fold but if the numpties are still there the risks remain the same.

I suspect a lot of PHers will agree with you on the benefits of BiB/MoP driver training. Even better would be pedestrian training as this form of road user is the most dangerous of the lot. There's a whole series of West Midlands Road Accident Reviews (police data) showing that typically of a sample of 1300 car/pedestrian accidents, 13 come down to excess speed, the remainder are covered by 'pedestrian entered the carriageway without due care'. Motorways are the safest roads in the country because the most dangerous group of road users is banned from using them. M'ways also happen to be our fastest roads, so how about "speed saves"?

I'd also guess that by being here on PH, BiB such as your good selves Street and ^Slider^, plus your ossifer colleagues too many to mention, are unlikely to be the kind of BiB who would basically provoke an offence by driving in an inconsiderate and dangerous manner "just because you can". But there are quite a few plod out there who do, and since it is expected of BiB that they will display higher standards in general, isn't it natural and understandable for an average MoP to get a bit uppity when they meet some twonk in (or out of) uniform playing silly buggers on the road?

By the same token it's just possible that some of us MoPs posting up on PH have had significant driver training too and try to put it into practice. Doesn't put us above the law, but a worrying thing is that some BiB just don't get it when a car is virtually driving the Roadcraft manual before their eyes. It's the arbitrary nature of events that grates, from mindless speed cams to BiB seemingly provoking people at random. No natural justice, totally unlike Darwin.

>> Edited by turbobloke on Thursday 28th October 19:27

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

Streetcop said: And you're right bad driving should always be reported....so don't be suprised or upset when the nasty BiB dobb everyone who commits a traffic offence, no matter how trivial.. Street It'll never happen. Wouldn't leave enough time for doughnut breaks.

I have em on the road...and if I get disturbed mid doughnut or milkshake...then I'm really

Street

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

ca092003 said: Streetcop said: And you're right bad driving should always be reported....so don't be suprised or upset when the nasty BiB dobb everyone who commits a traffic offence, no matter how trivial.. Street It'll never happen. Wouldn't leave enough time for doughnut breaks. I have em on the road...and if I get disturbed mid doughnut or milkshake...then I'm really Street

[Robocop]
You have 20 seconds to comply!
[/Robocop]

[Streetcop]

turbobloke said:

I'd also guess that by being here on PH, BiB such as your good selves Street and ^Slider^, plus your ossifer colleagues too many to mention, are unlikely to be the kind of BiB who would basically provoke an offence by driving in an inconsiderate and dangerous manner "just because you can".

Hi Turbobloke...

Like has been said...there are far too many numpties to physically deal with already, let alone provoking more drivers to do silly things...

Only today...a Renault Scenic driver was looking at my 'funny' at a set of traffic lights...(I was passenger in the police car, my mate was driving)...

I wound the window down and enquired "good afternoon Sir, can I help you" (Video records speech as well as vision in my patrol car ) He replied...So it's ok for you lot to speed down here, but if I did, I'd get a ticker"...

I explained that we hadn't been speeding and for him to put his seat belt on.., he complied and we moved off...Review of the video revealed we had travelled at no more that 37mph in a 40mph zone. (I felt certain we would have been doing more for a numpty in a Scenic to be pointing it out...)

Street

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

turbobloke said: I'd also guess that by being here on PH, BiB such as your good selves Street and ^Slider^, plus your ossifer colleagues too many to mention, are unlikely to be the kind of BiB who would basically provoke an offence by driving in an inconsiderate and dangerous manner "just because you can". Hi Turbobloke... Like has been said...there are far too many numpties to physically deal with already, let alone provoking more drivers to do silly things... Only today...a Renault Scenic driver was looking at my 'funny' at a set of traffic lights...(I was passenger in the police car, my mate was driving)... I wound the window down and enquired "good afternoon Sir, can I help you" (Video records speech as well as vision in my patrol car ) He replied...So it's ok for you lot to speed down here, but if I did, I'd get a ticker"... I explained that we hadn't been speeding and for him to put his seat belt on.., he complied and we moved off...Review of the video revealed we had travelled at no more that 37mph in a 40mph zone. (I felt certain we would have been doing more for a numpty in a Scenic to be pointing it out...) Street

Streetcop

Good for you. Why didn't you do him for the seatbelt, though? I would have!!!

You sound like a fairly decent chap but I do wonder why you insist on defending the behaviour of BiB's who aren't up to scratch?

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

Streetcop Good for you. Why didn't you do him for the seatbelt, though? I would have!!! You sound like a fairly decent chap but I do wonder why you insist on defending the behaviour of BiB's who aren't up to scratch?

Thank you for the compliment....

I didn't do him for the seatbelt for two reasons...

1) I hadn't seen it, until he sort of highlighted himself to me..

2) If I had have done him for the seat belt, he would have complained to the gaffers saying I had targetted him because he had complained about my mate's driving. (Which there was nothing wrong with, as the video confirmed)...

The complaint culture that is rife, and encouraged by such people as yourself (no offence, just pointing out what it's like nowadays), has brought this current trend of bobbies deciding whether or not it's worth the hassle to actually deal with people at times.

Don't get me wrong, if I'd seen him prior to our verbal exchange, I'd have ticketted him..

Street

[turbobloke]

Streetcop said:

Hi Turbobloke...

[Dixon of Dock Green] Evenin Street [/Dixon]

Streetcop said:

Like has been said...there are far too many numpties to physically deal with already, let alone provoking more drivers to do silly things...

Agreed - for BiB such as YGS but not all

Streetcop said:

Only today...a Renault Scenic driver

Tempted but must resist, must resist...

Streetcop said:

I explained that we hadn't been speeding and for him to put his seat belt on..

"You know when you've been doughnutted"

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

ca092003 said: Streetcop Good for you. Why didn't you do him for the seatbelt, though? I would have!!! You sound like a fairly decent chap but I do wonder why you insist on defending the behaviour of BiB's who aren't up to scratch? Thank you for the compliment.... I didn't do him for the seatbelt for two reasons... 1) I hadn't seen it, until he sort of highlighted himself to me.. 2) If I had have done him for the seat belt, he would have complained to the gaffers saying I had targetted him because he had complained about my mate's driving. (Which there was nothing wrong with, as the video confirmed)... The complaint culture that is rife, and encouraged by such people as yourself (no offence, just pointing out what it's like nowadays), has brought this current trend of bobbies deciding whether or not it's worth the hassle to actually deal with people at times. Don't get me wrong, if I'd seen him prior to our verbal exchange, I'd have ticketted him.. Street

Why didn't you get him in the car and playback the video with him there and then?

I think you'll find that I encourage people to complain where it appears they have been the victim of unnecessary 'attitude' by a BiB. You can criticise me all you want for this, but I happen to believe it is important that the Police are respected by the general public. One way to encourage this is to get rid of those BiB's who let the force down.

As previously explained to you, I've never had a bad experience with a BiB so have no chip on my shoulder.

[turbobloke]

ca092003 said:

As previously explained to you, I've never had a bad experience with a BiB so have no chip on my shoulder.

So ca092003, how long have you been up there in orbit?!

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

Why didn't you get him in the car and playback the video with him there and then?

Never really crossed my mind. We were quite busy and also I didn't want it to end up in a slagging match.

ca092003 said:

I think you'll find that I encourage people to complain where it appears they have been the victim of unnecessary 'attitude' by a BiB. You can criticise me all you want for this, but I happen to believe it is important that the Police are respected by the general public. One way to encourage this is to get rid of those BiB's who let the force down.

But can you not see? This is one of the reasons why driving standard are so shit on our roads. The vast and I mean vast majority of Bib (no traffic police) don't bother with driving offences as they don't believe it's worth the hassle. "Normal", lets call them, people get a ticket for no seat belt or a bollocking for middle lane hogging. They then complain about the police not being there when their shed got broken into or their car damaged. They then complain to the gaffers, and the BiB might have to do a report. Then they write to the local paper to whine further.

Result: BiB thinks 'bollocks to that for a game of soccer. I'm going back to dealing with truants from school or druggie shoplifters stealing bacon.

So driver behaviour goes unchecked....other drivers with nice cars get cut up and their cars damaged and the only lot to save the day is a very small number of men and women of the Road Policing Unit (traffic cops)..who are already snowed under with fatal collision investigations to really go out and about tackling driver behaviour.

Can you see my problem with it all now?

Regards,
Gary

Street

[ca092003]

turbobloke said:

ca092003 said: As previously explained to you, I've never had a bad experience with a BiB so have no chip on my shoulder. So ca092003, how long have you been up there in orbit?!

??

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

But can you not see? This is one of the reasons why driving standard are so shit on our roads. The vast and I mean vast majority of Bib (no traffic police) don't bother with driving offences as they don't believe it's worth the hassle. "Normal", lets call them, people get a ticket for no seat belt or a bollocking for middle lane hogging. They then complain about the police not being there when their shed got broken into or their car damaged. They then complain to the gaffers, and the BiB might have to do a report. Then they write to the local paper to whine further. Result: BiB thinks 'bollocks to that for a game of soccer. I'm going back to dealing with truants from school or druggie shoplifters stealing bacon. So driver behaviour goes unchecked....other drivers with nice cars get cut up and their cars damaged and the only lot to save the day is a very small number of men and women of the Road Policing Unit (traffic cops)..who are already snowed under with fatal collision investigations to really go out and about tackling driver behaviour. Can you see my problem with it all now? Regards, Gary Street

But if a non-trafpol Bib isn't generating 'process' shouldn't that be dealt with by his/her superior (sorry, senior) officer?

EVERYONE needs to be involved in the push for better driving standards. You and your non-TrafPol friends will always get 100% support from me if you are concentrating on safety related issues.

BUT those officers who do not uphold the high standards of the office of Constable should be sacked.

[turbobloke]

ca092003 said:

??

Erm, well, there's no shortage of numptiness and definitely no lack of naughtyBiBery here on the surface, so I just wondered...

[ca092003]

turbobloke said:

ca092003 said: ?? Erm, well, there's no shortage of numptiness and definitely no lack of naughtyBiBery here on the surface, so I just wondered...

Erm, right. I still don't get it but never mind.