Intimidating/dangerous driving by plod.What to do?

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

But if a non-trafpol Bib isn't generating 'process' shouldn't that be dealt with by his/her superior (sorry, senior) officer?

No, no, no, no.....
It's not like that...traffic offences create hassle...people complain...Inspectors have to listen to their bollox arguements about why they were in the middle lane for 8 miles or why they had left their fog lights on..etc etc...and as a result the inspector thinks bollocks to this and advised the BiB to concentrate on the priorities:

1) Reduce anti-social behaviour
2) Tackle drug problems
3) Reduce the numbers of racial incidents
4) tackle car related theft
5) Reduce numbers of burglaries.
6) target violence and domestic disputes..

and if I see you giving decent members of the public tickets for no seat belt or parking on white zig zags, I'll have your fooking guts for garters Sonny Boy!!!! The fooking traffic department can sort that shit out....(all 60 of them between 5 shifts for a whole county!!!!)

ca092003 said:

BUT those officers who do not uphold the high standards of the office of Constable should be sacked.

Yep..and the chances are; you'll come nearer to being sacked if not really sacked from traffic offences. Nothing winds people up more...call their wife, their kids, their house=no probs, call their driving and get ready....

The numbers of violent incident and cs spraying and such like from simple traffic stops you wouldn't believe.

However, the hardest, smelliest, dirtiest burglar, shoplifter, drunk etc..wont give you any hassle and if they do, they'll have forgotten about it tomorrow...not be waiting in reception to see the Duty Inspector...

Street

Now do you see where I'm coming from...

edited to say...Christ....I wrote all that without reading your post ca092003 at the start of this page...see what I mean now

>> Edited by Streetcop on Thursday 28th October 20:13

[Streetcop]

ca092003 said:

If a BiB gets shirty with me he WILL find himself in front of the Duty Inspector whether or not he books me. I am always polite to others, I expect the same in return.

Don't you see...the BiB Won't find himself in front of the duty inspector because of your complaint. Reason: if it's a simple you don't like his attitude or his shirtiness...the matter WILL be informally resolved....ie: the bobby will speak to his own sergeant or inspector over a briefing...the matter will get a 20 second slot and it will be written off. The number of bollocks complaints over the last half a dozen years have meant they now gain little if any kudos.

In addition....it makes some bobbies (and some I've worked with over the years), be extremely polite to the likes of individuals like yourself...but show you no discretion whatsoever and politely ticket/report you the moment you step over the line. All professional, fair, polite, respectful and it costs the punter plenty to hear it..

Street

[turbobloke]

Streetcop said:

...it makes some bobbies (and some I've worked with over the years), be extremely polite to the likes of individuals like yourself...but show you no discretion whatsoever and politely ticket / report you the moment you step over the line. All professional, fair, polite, respectful and it costs the punter plenty to hear it.. Street

That's understandable, but wouldn't you say it's possible for you to give someone a total doughnutting in a respectful way and not ticket them? Having had some very polite but convincing bollockings on the square at Cranwell I'd say it can be done.

[Streetcop]

turbobloke said:

Streetcop said: ...it makes some bobbies (and some I've worked with over the years), be extremely polite to the likes of individuals like yourself...but show you no discretion whatsoever and politely ticket / report you the moment you step over the line. All professional, fair, polite, respectful and it costs the punter plenty to hear it.. Street That's understandable, but wouldn't you say it's possible for you to give someone a total doughnutting in a respectful way and not ticket them? Having had some very polite but convincing bollockings on the square at Cranwell I'd say it can be done.

Yep..I know what you mean...(I was at Digby..)

As a member of the public, I would prefer a bollocking, no matter how small it made me feel if I wasn't going to be fined and given points.

However, you have to consider the ca092003 type of person...and I quote from earlier on in this thread;

ca092003 said:

If a BiB gets shirty with me he WILL find himself in front of the Duty Inspector whether or not he books me.

In which case...why cause future hassle for oneself? Get him booked and get your figures up...

not my thoughts, but those of some bobbies

Street

>> Edited by Streetcop on Thursday 28th October 20:35

[turbobloke]

Streetcop said:

As a member of the public, I would prefer a bollocking, no matter how small it made me feel if I wasn't going to be fined and given points.

Me too. The subtle skill of the silver tongue lashing is a lost art these days. This went the light blue rounds some time back but is genuine:
Duty Corporal (crisp salute)
Good morning sir! Would you be so kind as to ask your driver to move the car so others can see the no parking sign
Air Commodore
Splmphxz
Not that this would be appropriate for a BiB/MoP one way conversation but the aim is the same - score the point in an excruciatingly painful but bullet proof manner.

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

turbobloke said: Streetcop said: ...it makes some bobbies (and some I've worked with over the years), be extremely polite to the likes of individuals like yourself...but show you no discretion whatsoever and politely ticket / report you the moment you step over the line. All professional, fair, polite, respectful and it costs the punter plenty to hear it.. Street That's understandable, but wouldn't you say it's possible for you to give someone a total doughnutting in a respectful way and not ticket them? Having had some very polite but convincing bollockings on the square at Cranwell I'd say it can be done. Yep..I know what you mean...(I was at Digby..) As a member of the public, I would prefer a bollocking, no matter how small it made me feel if I wasn't going to be fined and given points. However, you have to consider the ca092003 type of person...and I quote from earlier on in this thread; ca092003 said: If a BiB gets shirty with me he WILL find himself in front of the Duty Inspector whether or not he books me. In which case...why cause future hassle for oneself? Get him booked and get your figures up... not my thoughts, but those of some bobbies Street >> Edited by Streetcop on Thursday 28th October 20:35

In 16 years driving, I've been stopped 6 times, each time by a decent BiB. Never had a problem with any of them. they were polite and respectful. I was the same in return.

But let's not forget that we got onto this topic because of the inappropriate (and some might say outright dangerous) driving of one of your fellow BiB's.

Now you might think it appropriate to defend the bretheren come what may, but I happen to think that when someone f**** up they should face the consequence of their actions.

Good manners should not be optional extras.

[Dibble]

turbobloke said:

Me too. The subtle skill of the silver tongue lashing is a lost art these days. This went the light blue rounds some time back but is genuine: Duty Corporal (crisp salute) Good morning sir! Would you be so kind as to ask your driver to move the car so others can see the no parking sign Air Commodore Splmphxz Not that this would be appropriate for a BiB/MoP one way conversation but the aim is the same - score the point in an excruciatingly painful but bullet proof manner.

Takes me back to my days at Dartmouth:

WO I "I will call you 'sir', and you will call me 'sir'. The difference is, that you will mean it..."

[Streetcop]

ca092003 and others,

Any comments on my posts as to why the majority of police officers don't bother with traffic offences?

Street

[charltm]

If they are being encourage to focus more on the non-traffic stuff that really blights our lives, then great.

However, there are traffic offences that blight our lives too. If the BiB could be encouraged, within the traffic domain, to focus on those offences where there is a victim, that would be helpful. I was pretty annoyed when BiB didn't follow up on a properly reported Failure to Stop by someone who had caused me £500 of damage (what are all these CCTV cameras in London for if not to help with incidents like that?). I wasn't annoyed just because they should have followed up as a matter of course (as they should have done when I was head-butted and lost part of a tooth a couple of days earlier) but because it contrasted with my own prosecution a couple of years back for speeding in a victimless manner (never have I caused anyone any damage or injury nor has anything happened to my car while in motion, ever) on a dry, mid-day M5 in a light car with excellent brakes and half a mile of clear road in front of me. I even mentioned all of those things as I committed the offence, because I was giving my girlfriend a 'safe driving' talk at the time! I estimate that that will have cost me some £6500 by the time the offence is no longer declarable to insurers.

So my experience is of being deprived of a lot of money by (effectively) the BiB for driving at a speed that was very safe for the conditions, of having received no help whatoseover in recouping money from dangerous drivers/people and now of having experienced the dangerous driving of a BiB too. Great. Like scameras and stealth taxes, it all makes me want to take myself and my hard-earned assets overseas.

I do, however, retain respect for any BiB until he does something to earn the loss of it; and I have it particularly for those on this forum, just for being here.

As such (and having responded to your request for a response), I'd be interested, Streetcop: would your advice be the same as Dibble's with respect to the Landrover-driving-up-the-erse-of-my-motorbike-and-waiting-ages-before-nicking-the-speeding-biker incident at the start of the thread?

[^Slider^]

Streetcop said:

ca092003 and others, Any comments on my posts as to why the majority of police officers don't bother with traffic offences? Street

No detections in it, unless you get a disqual driving. (well is for my force) dont even get a detection for drink drivers.

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

ca092003 and others, Any comments on my posts as to why the majority of police officers don't bother with traffic offences? Street

Supposition?

[gone]

Dibble said:

Takes me back to my days at Dartmouth: WO I "I will call you 'sir', and you will call me 'sir'. The difference is, that you will mean it..."

Takes me back to Initial Police Training.

Ex Matelo on parade when inspecting drill Sgt stops, looks him up and down, places pace stick on his chest and says "Nixon, there is a piece of sh1t on the end of this stick"

Nixon = "It's not this end Sgt"

Nixon spent next 20 minutes at the double with mouth closed in front of rest of the parade who were trying to contain their insides!

>> Edited by gone on Friday 29th October 22:57

[turbobloke]

gone said:

Takes me back to Initial Police Training... Ex Maitlo on parade when inspecting drill Sgt stops, looks him up and down, places pace stick on his chest and says "Nixon, there is a piece of sh1t on the end of this stick" Nixon = "It's not this end Sgt" Nixon spent next 20 minutes at the double with mouth closed in front of rest of the parade who were trying to contain their insides!

Getting dangerously off topic but anyway...just before being flown out to somewhere unpleasant during IOT we were lined up before some medics for our series of jabs, about seven IIRC including yellow fever, typhoid, cholera, diphtheria and just about every juicy bug you could think of. After getting the lot one after the other our FS asked if everyone felt OK. Darwin popped up again, somebody said their arm was sore whispers of no no no no no don't go there but too late. Both arms were considerably worse after the poor sod had run round inside the base perimeter holding rifle over head
Edit to bring it back on track - so the moral of the story is, don't be provoked, by plod or people with shiny tipped sticks

>> Edited by turbobloke on Friday 29th October 13:21

[Streetcop]

charltm said:

I do, however, retain respect for any BiB until he does something to earn the loss of it; and I have it particularly for those on this forum, just for being here.

Hiya Matthew,
Thanks for the kind words.

What I think you must do, and I'm sure you would, is lose respect for THAT particular BiB if he doesn't something to deserve it, not for every other BiB. That's were people go wrong. There are thousands and thousands of coppers in this country and they all get tarnished with the same brush by a motorist who gets caught for speeding and is spoken to sarcastically by one single officer.

charltm said:

As such (and having responded to your request for a response), I'd be interested, Streetcop: would your advice be the same as Dibble's with respect to the Landrover-driving-up-the-erse-of-my-motorbike-and-waiting-ages-before-nicking-the-speeding-biker incident at the start of the thread?

I would have hated to be on the bike. It happened to me once on the Honda Blackbird. Mrs Street was on the back and a Toyato Corolla was inches off the rear; as I was doing 30mph in a 30 zone. At a set of traffic lights I had some words with him and my blood pressure was off the scale.

As it was a police landrover in your story...dreadful, not the kind of driving I would expect from a BiB, no matter whether he was Trafpol, beat, ARV or whatever.

As for following speeding drivers to see if they will do something else; absolutely. Before I put points on a licence or take a licence from someone, I like to know if they actually deserve it or whether it's a moment of adrenalin or just an oversight.

Street

>> Edited by Streetcop on Sunday 31st October 12:19

[turbobloke]

Streetcop said:

As for following speeding drivers to see if they will do something else; absolutely. Before I put points on a licence or take a licence from someone, I like to know if they actually deserve it or whether it's a moment of adrenalin or just an oversight. Street

First class

[ca092003]

Streetcop said:

As for following speeding drivers to see if they will do something else; absolutely. Before I put points on a licence or take a licence from someone, I like to know if they actually deserve it or whether it's a moment of adrenalin or just an oversight. Street

Last week you said that you couldn't tell whether a speeding driver was driving dangerously.

[turbobloke]

ca092003 said:

Last week you said that you couldn't tell whether a speeding driver was driving dangerously.

Well, FWIW Street hasn't said he would follow a car that's exceeded a posted limit because it was or wasn't being driven dangerously, or because it might be. It was to see if the transgression already noted was a one-off, a momentary lapse of concentration as suffered by chief constables and their deputies, a low blood level in the driver's adrenaline - or maybe the driver is a tw@t and needs enlightenment...

[ca092003]

turbobloke said:

ca092003 said: Last week you said that you couldn't tell whether a speeding driver was driving dangerously. Well, FWIW Street hasn't said he would follow a car that's exceeded a posted limit because it was or wasn't being driven dangerously, or because it might be. It was to see if the transgression already noted was a one-off, a momentary lapse of concentration as suffered by chief constables and their deputies, a low blood level in the driver's adrenaline - or maybe the driver is a tw@t and needs enlightenment...

I'm not sure I understand. If SC is in a marked car and the speeder doesn't spot him and thus doesn't slow down, then I reckon they are worth a tug. If nothing other than poor observation.

If SC is in a unmarked car, then he has more chance of followng undetected to then gain a better understanding of what the driver is up to.

Don't get me wrong, I want SC to catch speeding drivers if the places where they speed are inappropriate. If, however, a speed over a given limit is done in total safety, then what is the problem?

I think Paul from SafeSpeed said it was something to do with applying a filter.

[turbobloke]

ca092003 said:

I'm not sure I understand. If SC is in a marked car and the speeder doesn't spot him and thus doesn't slow down, then I reckon they are worth a tug. If nothing other than poor observation.

Offence code = failing to use rear view mirror...but not necessarily dangerous as a one-off

ca092003 said:

If SC is in a unmarked car, then he has more chance of followng undetected to then gain a better understanding of what the driver is up to.

More than likely so.

ca092003 said:

Don't get me wrong, I want SC to catch speeding drivers if the places where they speed are inappropriate. If, however, a speed over a given limit is done in total safety, then what is the problem?

For my part there is no problem, but for BiB there may well be, as I've said before this is what you get when safety and the law part company in a context where the law is supposedly all about safety. I'm sure SC can speak for himself, I was just offering my interpretation of the post, namely, that there was nothing about dangerous driving as such.

ca092003 said:

I think Paul from SafeSpeed said it was something to do with applying a filter.

Not sure, but any time trafpol uses common sense and discretion it's a good thing. There's a lot of common ground here, hardly worth picking nits?

>> Edited by turbobloke on Saturday 30th October 21:03

[ca092003]

turbobloke said:

There's a lot of common ground here, hardly worth picking nits? >> Edited by turbobloke on Saturday 30th October 21:03

Do you know that is a very good point. I don't think SC and I are a million miles apart on most things. Most of all I want our roads to be safer so I don't get the knock from a TrafPol at 4 in the morning. But I also want to see bad BiB's dealt with.

There are good and bad people in all walks of life but I could never defend a colleague who was blatantly in the wrong. When this happens, it means that someone who was right is, in effect, punished.
That strikes me as profoundly unjust.