Did I deserve to get banned?
Discussion
redline dan said:
What are we supposed to think? I for one was genuinely trying to help and based my response accurately on the information presented.
And that was why your posts were useful and constructive. My comments were in no way aimed at you. Sorry if you felt they were.
That's great Dan, no need to apologise. Why don't you give me a ring? It's been a while.
redline dan said:
If you wanted sympathetic posts, the title shuld have been different.
Who's chasing sympathy? I believe "Did I deserve to get banned?" elicits a "yes you did!" or a "no you didn't" response. If you believe that I did deserve to get banned and that I should seek further training/guidance/spiritual healing then by all menas comment - But aggressively worded comments from the holier than thou brigade are not going to have the same degress of usefulness as constructive comments, that's all.
Dan
I felt some of the posting were from ground far higher than you deserved.
I don't think you deserved to get banned, as you had no intent to cause an accident and were geuninely unlucky, but the at the same time lucky to survive. I human mistake that you will not repeat.
You have obviously learnt from this experience, as would anyone one of us.
And yes you DO have my sympathy.
Cheers,
Steve.
In light of the fact that Dan used a faulty technique that's:
a) Not discouraged in the Highway Code or other official advice (except roadcraft, which is rather esoteric)
and
b) is extremely commonplace
and
c) the faulty technique was the primary cause for the crash
I think the dangerous driving charge should have been defended. The solicitor didn't know these facts and may be blameworthy.
I think there are grounds for asking that the case be reopened. It's DWDC&A, not DD.
>> Edited by safespeed on Friday 5th November 15:14
a) Not discouraged in the Highway Code or other official advice (except roadcraft, which is rather esoteric)
and
b) is extremely commonplace
and
c) the faulty technique was the primary cause for the crash
I think the dangerous driving charge should have been defended. The solicitor didn't know these facts and may be blameworthy.
I think there are grounds for asking that the case be reopened. It's DWDC&A, not DD.
>> Edited by safespeed on Friday 5th November 15:14
Steviebabes said:
By saying we have more head-on collisions as a result of poor overtaking on a straight featuring in our fatal accidents does not mean it is my advice to overtake on a bend.
Eeeeeeeh By 'Eck (to pinch my husband's retorts to uou
) Steviebabes.... what is your advice on the overtake? Und answer of
to all overtakes is not acceptable 
Steviebabes said:
Thank goodness you are in the medical profession and have to make few decisions based on logic!
Ach ... shall tell the medicos in this family to make one decision based on logic if you ever happen to be treated by one of them ... the biggest needles und no painkillers...
Steviebabes said:
I would welcome Dan back to the roads after 12 months as the ban seems to have done the job. Do we really think that a slapped wrist or a £200 fine would have done the same? I don't think so.
Twelve month ban - bit steep all things considered and when you take other more serious misdemeanours into account - though -
Could have been reduced provided training agreed to - . Perhaps Dan has reflected on the cause of his accident .... rather think the pain, discomfort and lovely car getting bent would have done the job.
Also despite what Dan says to contrary - extra tuition also helps ... get confidence back, revises and hones existing skill, helps correct the complacency attitude.....
Steviebabes said:
If Dan had been carrying his wife (partner?) or child at the same time he may have been talking about a more serious and tragic loss. 12 months off the road when compared is a bloody bargain.
Perhaps... perhaps not. Maybe with passenger he may not have attempted to overtake... Who knows? Second of madness..... Maybe if cop car had been behind him - he would have thought twice .....
But would your speed camera have prevented the accident?
Would not be at or anywhere near the bend would it - you like the nice lucrative "faster" bits of the road anyway
Plotloss said:
Mrs Fish said:
So one mistake, one momentary lapse of concentration makes him a bad driver?
Give the circumstances that Dan has described, then I WOULD describe him as a bad driver, in need of further tuition.
But, you as an 'advanced driver' must have to admit that not all accidents are driver error and never will be...
Without knowing the complete facts I find it a rather obnoxious stance to take to suggest that someone you have never met or been driven by is a bad driver regardless of what they write on a web forum...
Exactly. I think some folk here are judging Dan too harshly, and it might not be a bad idea to keep our own performances more carefully under review. We might all learn something from this incident.
Dan made a mistake and he seems to have accepted that from the moment it happened.
My feeling is that the punishment is rather harsh, and to be prevented from driving for 12 months is not appropriate, nor is it helpful to his future driving career.
Let's just remember we can all make mistakes.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Pigeon said:
It's the sort of thing you end up doing if you have a crap car. This is why I have used it on many occasions - but with the important variation that I leave room to brake and tuck back in behind the car I'm trying to overtake if once I'm in position to get an unobstructed view of the road ahead I find it necessary to abort. What would be the collective's views on this variation?
If by 'crap car' you mean one with only limited acceleration capacity, then that's what I drive.
I therefore make frequent use of what I call my flying start overtaking technique, and it is a well proven system, but of course it needs using with care.
However, it is, as you effectively say, essential to leave yourself time and space to abort the overtake if the clear road you hope for is not available at the time you're ready to go.
Having sufficient power to be able to start your overtake from the same speed as the overtakee is a luxury not available to all of us.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
On my way home tonight I overtook on about 10 corners. I was on the bike though, and had I run out of space, could have found a gap to fit in easily. However I didn't cause any offense to oncoming traffic 'cos the bike is a) fast and b) narrow.
I have to say that as the original poster says, if he didn't harm anyone else, then why the DD charge? had he hurt or inconvenienced another road user then DD for sure. Otherwise, whats the problem? the lesson has been learnt financially. I've crashed in my riding career, and not harmed a 3rd party - and I learnt form it. A DD rap would have just made me hate the Police.
Have to add, you were unlucky, and I bet you won't make the same mistake again.
There but the grace of god & all that.
C
I have to say that as the original poster says, if he didn't harm anyone else, then why the DD charge? had he hurt or inconvenienced another road user then DD for sure. Otherwise, whats the problem? the lesson has been learnt financially. I've crashed in my riding career, and not harmed a 3rd party - and I learnt form it. A DD rap would have just made me hate the Police.
Have to add, you were unlucky, and I bet you won't make the same mistake again.
There but the grace of god & all that.
C
Fat Audi 80 said:
I don't think you deserved to get banned, as you had no intent to cause an accident and were geuninely unlucky, but the at the same time lucky to survive. I human mistake that you will not repeat.
Are you listening carefully I shall say this only once
The way the law is written it doesn't matter that
a) No-one was injured
b) Redline didn't show "intent"
c) It was an error / mistake
The law is clear - did the ACTUAL driving fall FAR below that of an average compentant driver. Overtaking into a blind bend without any accident is probably sufficient for DD.
It is a valuable lesson to us all. We are making instant driving decisions every second, make a mistake and it can see you in jail - 2 yrs for DD.
However, as I have said before what is harsh is that as with all things motoring there is not a constant application of punishment.
Fat Audi 80 said:
Plotloss said:
ca092003 said:
So let's not address the cause of the problem (i.e. bad driving) but just focus on how unfair it is that Dan got banned. 
Bad driving? Know that for sure do you, you were there and you saw it all?
>> Edited by Plotloss on Thursday 4th November 14:46
I think if you re-read Dan's post, you will see that when it comes to executing that particular overtake, it *was* bad driving.
You really are the biggest plonker on this site aren't you.
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
ca092003 said:
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
You are making a habit of talking rubbish. If you knew anything about road safety you would wind your stupid neck in and start listening to some of the people on here.
redline dan said:
Eddie Irvine stacked his Jag a little while ago. Does that make him a crap driver desperately in need of retraining.
Not necessarily, but the fact that he's been a good grands prix driver does not mean that he's never driven dangeroulsy or carelessly.
Just like the fact that you might be generally a very good driver does not mean that you are innocent of the charge you have had levelled against you.
You seem to be hinting in these later posts that overtaking on a blind bend, panicking, and rolling your car (while shitting up a nervous new driver) is not an example of bad driving.
Surely you recognise that they are not prosecuting you for your general driving, but for your driving at that particular point in time?
nonegreen said:
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
You are making a habit of talking rubbish. If you knew anything about road safety you would wind your stupid neck in and start listening to some of the people on here.
Examples, please, of me talking rubbish. And why you believe that to be the case.
nonegreen said:
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
You are making a habit of talking rubbish. If you knew anything about road safety you would wind your stupid neck in and start listening to some of the people on here.
I thank you sir!
Steve.
ca092003 said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
ca092003 said:
Plotloss said:
ca092003 said:
So let's not address the cause of the problem (i.e. bad driving) but just focus on how unfair it is that Dan got banned.
Bad driving? Know that for sure do you, you were there and you saw it all?
>> Edited by Plotloss on Thursday 4th November 14:46
I think if you re-read Dan's post, you will see that when it comes to executing that particular overtake, it *was* bad driving.
You really are the biggest plonker on this site aren't you.
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
That's not what it is about. The poor guy has nearly lost his life making a genuine mistake, and personally I don't feel a ban does anything to help road safety.
FYI I have read Roadcraft, try to practise the techniques outlined, and take the standard of my driving very seriously. This also extends to the maintenance of my vehicles. I am currently about to start some informal training with my girlfriend too. I have a clean license and have only ever had one accident.
But like I say, its not about me and how good I may or may not be, standing on higher ground looking down on others. I thought Dan deserved a bit of sympathy and advice that's all.
Cheers,
Steve.
>> Edited by Fat Audi 80 on Saturday 6th November 18:05
Fat Audi 80 said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
ca092003 said:
Plotloss said:
ca092003 said:
So let's not address the cause of the problem (i.e. bad driving) but just focus on how unfair it is that Dan got banned.
Bad driving? Know that for sure do you, you were there and you saw it all?
>> Edited by Plotloss on Thursday 4th November 14:46
I think if you re-read Dan's post, you will see that when it comes to executing that particular overtake, it *was* bad driving.
You really are the biggest plonker on this site aren't you.
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
That's not what it is about. The poor guy has nearly lost his life making a genuine mistake, and personally I don't feel a ban does anything to help road safety.
FYI I have read Roadcraft, try to practise the techniques outlined, and take the standard of my driving very seriously. This also extends to the maintenance of my vehicles. I am currently about to start some informal training with my girlfriend too. I have a clean license and have only ever had on accident.
But like I say, its not about me and how good I may or may not be, standing on higher ground looking down on others. I thought Dan deserved a bit of sympathy and advice that's all.
Cheers,
Steve.
That sums it up very nicely Steve. There are far too many inexperienced people who express opinions on many subjects from emotion rather than logic, and then attempt to force others to accept them rather than explain themselves.
By the way, just what "informal training" is your girlfriend going to give you?
I've just read the whole thread and i wasn't going to reply as there have been lots of good input, but just to say that think 12 months ban was over the top.
I'm sorry, but i have this childish urge to highlite a certain sanctimonious poster who surely must be the office nob... but maybe i'll leave it to your imagination as to who i'm referring to
I'm sorry, but i have this childish urge to highlite a certain sanctimonious poster who surely must be the office nob... but maybe i'll leave it to your imagination as to who i'm referring to
redline dan said:
As arrogant as it may sound I can't see that driver training will have any use. I didn't have a crash because I didn't know what I was doing, I crashed because I made a mistake. As part of my job I've been tutoured by many well known drivers, and have had extensive experience of high speed (track) driving, skid pan training and once beat Yvan Muller at Sega Rally!
Dan
Dan - All humans make mistakes.... but as Wildy has said - the girl gave you warning of inexperience from the "P" plate and all bends need caution.
Wildy was already highly qulaified driver when the chap hit her car in that traffic jam.
OK - so her case was very different - a comeback after very serious injuries - but she still redid every driving test before she went back on public roads.
We still do refreshers. The BiBs in this family do refresher courses and so say the likes of gone, Streetcop et al on here.
Extra training does not make infallible as yiou rightly point out.
However, I do think you should book a stint with your local IAM (or whichever body you belong to) towards the end of your ban to polish your skills and get back into the swim in any case.
In light of punishments received by lesser mortals - would tend to agree you appear to have been charged more seriously perhaps than you should have been.
IOLAIRE said:
ca092003 said:
Fat Audi 80 said:
ca092003 said:
Plotloss said:
ca092003 said:
So let's not address the cause of the problem (i.e. bad driving) but just focus on how unfair it is that Dan got banned.
Bad driving? Know that for sure do you, you were there and you saw it all?
>> Edited by Plotloss on Thursday 4th November 14:46
I think if you re-read Dan's post, you will see that when it comes to executing that particular overtake, it *was* bad driving.
You really are the biggest plonker on this site aren't you.
Maybe we should all tiptoe around whispering in quiet voices how it wasn't such a bad thing what Dan did 'cos no one was really hurt.
I believe in direct answers. That is what he got. Sure, he maybe a bit upset but better perhaps to have a bruised ego, than a fatality on his hands.
And your contribution to the subject of road safety is exactly what ??? What additional tuition have you taken?
That's not what it is about. The poor guy has nearly lost his life making a genuine mistake, and personally I don't feel a ban does anything to help road safety.
FYI I have read Roadcraft, try to practise the techniques outlined, and take the standard of my driving very seriously. This also extends to the maintenance of my vehicles. I am currently about to start some informal training with my girlfriend too. I have a clean license and have only ever had on accident.
But like I say, its not about me and how good I may or may not be, standing on higher ground looking down on others. I thought Dan deserved a bit of sympathy and advice that's all.
Cheers,
Steve.
That sums it up very nicely Steve. There are far too many inexperienced people who express opinions on many subjects from emotion rather than logic, and then attempt to force others to accept them rather than explain themselves.
By the way, just what "informal training" is your girlfriend going to give you?
Walked right into that one!
Cheers,
Steve.
i to was not going to respond to this thread but i am human and could make a mistake just like dan so i would like to thank dan for putting up this thread and i will try to be a safer driver , i hope the next 12months go fast and when you get your papers back take it easy 
p.s dan if you need a bit of fresh air i,ll take you for a spin in ultima
>> Edited by tuxman on Sunday 7th November 18:05
p.s dan if you need a bit of fresh air i,ll take you for a spin in ultima >> Edited by tuxman on Sunday 7th November 18:05
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